[Bluefivespot]

I have a 2012 premium mt6. Am quite pleased with the car and don't need the 6 cyl for this application, but sure would like a little more low end oomph. Has there been any talk of upping the 2.5 to, say, a 2.8 with 180 hp and 195 ft/lbs of torque? Seems to me we could get similar mpg's with little more power. Thoughts and/or flame away!

 

[rasterman]

Sounds nice, but Subaru has recently made some pretty big commitments in the opposite direction with the new 2.0 engine. They only have so many engine production lines, and more lines producing more engine sizes would trigger price increases across the board to make it all fit. See your local Audi dealer for further details.

The 2.5 is already "too big" for everywhere except the USA market, and I think they've solved that problem nicely with the 3.6L. I think their next trick will be combining the 3.6 with a CVT for some power & mileage combo fireworks.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

yeah, 1.6 or 2.0 with a turbo is more likely for the future. And with Toyota in the mix, a hybrid is probably in the works.

but, some ideas like these have been around for some time. Other ideas, like a boxer diesel, actually came true - for overseas markets.

 

[rasterman]

Also worth pointing out that nearly nobody has done a 4-cyl greater than 2.5L for a passenger car. Too many vibration issues. The horizontally opposed configuration gives Subaru a lot of help on this, but there are still practical limits.

180hp & 200lb of torque would be easy to hit with their 2.0 + a turbo. Probably not out reach for a hybrid either, as 1 Lucky suggests.

Myself, I think they have a good game plan- don't make too many kinds of engines. Keep it easy to support and make those drivetrains interchangeable across the lineup. That allows them to keep overall costs down so they can pocket profits while offering us decent prices.

The 3.6 is with us as long as the USA continues to get cheap gasoline. If our fuel prices ever go up to match the rest of the world, they'll drop it like it's hot and already have 2 or 3 smaller engines in mass production to take up the slack.

And as much as I love manual shift cars, I think they would be very smart to discontinue their manual transmissions and instead offer engineering support to 3rd party companies to preserve the option for race teams & diehards as an aftermarket conversion. I'm kind of amazed that they haven't already done this.

 

[Euchre]

Not many 4 cyl. engines have been made lately larger than 2.5L, but they have been made. The Porsche 968 with its 3.0L comes to mind. Ferrari ran a 3.4L in a few of its cars in the mid to late '50s.

 

[30917]

The Lancia Gamma in the 70's had a home grown boxer engine of 2.5 liter displacement.. Lancia Gamma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nice looking car for the day, but troublesome like most Italian cars of the day.

 

[vr4Legacy]

Along with the already good info,

you have to consider the demand. Plenty of people are happy with the 2.5 and even more pleased with the MPG it affords. Adding a few more HP will go unnoticed to most consumers that buy the OB, however the correlated drop in MPG will be very apparent. Subaru has done a fine job of pairing adequate power with good MPG in their vehicles, and still allowing higher power options for the enthusiasts that want it. (3.6R, LGT, WRX, STi) Generally speaking, people are willing to pay for the extra power, and Subaru offers plenty.

As mentioned it would be very cost prohibitive to offer a 2.5 & a 2.8, so they would likely drop the 2.5 to goto a 2.8.

If it aint broke don't fix it.. and judging by the OB sales, it ain't broke

 

[ob2011]

It seems to me the real issue is gearing. The 6mt needs more performance-oriented gearing. And it would be great to have a performance-geared 6mt with the H6.

The H6 5EAT is also geared too high in 1st for my usage & tastes.

But, as the Outback is a mainstream car, unlike the WRX, Subaru emphasizes fuel mileage at the determent of driveability.

 

[subiesailor]

Also worth pointing out that nearly nobody has done a 4-cyl greater than 2.5L for a passenger car. Too many vibration issues. The horizontally opposed configuration gives Subaru a lot of help on this, but there are still practical limits.

180hp & 200lb of torque would be easy to hit with their 2.0 + a turbo. Probably not out reach for a hybrid either, as 1 Lucky suggests.

Myself, I think they have a good game plan- don't make too many kinds of engines. Keep it easy to support and make those drivetrains interchangeable across the lineup. That allows them to keep overall costs down so they can pocket profits while offering us decent prices.

The 3.6 is with us as long as the USA continues to get cheap gasoline. If our fuel prices ever go up to match the rest of the world, they'll drop it like it's hot and already have 2 or 3 smaller engines in mass production to take up the slack.

And as much as I love manual shift cars, I think they would be very smart to discontinue their manual transmissions and instead offer engineering support to 3rd party companies to preserve the option for race teams & diehards as an aftermarket conversion. I'm kind of amazed that they haven't already done this.

Whats funny is back in 2001 when I was down sizing from a SUV to a car I wanted the largest 4cylinder engine in a car I could find. The 2.5 which was fairly new to Subaru was at the time one of the largest 4cylinders offered in any car. VW was less than 2L and if you wanted more power it was either the 1.8T or the VR6

Really doesn't make sense to go bigger than 2L or 2.5 now days with DI technology and or turbo - even a low pressure turbo set up like the old Volvo's which would be more reliable and keep fuel consumption down would make a decent performance bump when at altitude etc.

 

[rico567]

This thread covers a lot of territory, but does it well, particularly emphasizing the cost of fuel. If you're going to meet current and upcoming CAFE standards, it means 4-cylinder engines. Displacement has to be filled with some kind of fuel mix, so not only fewer cyinders, smaller displacement. It's headed that way already, which almost makes Subaru's 2.5 seem large. The 2013 Ford Fusion (not a small car, Outback sized) incorporates a 1.6 liter turbo four rated at 178 horsepower, mileage rated at 25/37. These smaller fours are the future......

 

[ths258]

Also worth pointing out that nearly nobody has done a 4-cyl greater than 2.5L for a passenger car.

I greatly miss my 1981 Dodge ("Mitsubishi") Challenger with a 2.6L 4 cylinder engine. Not nearly as fond of the Outback.