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Afternoon,

I've recently purchased a 2000 Lancaster 6 with 190,000km's on it in New Zealand. I bought it with the knowledge that the CEL was appearing on the odd occasion and I've been using these forums to help diagnose my problem and put some life back into this good ol gal, but i've been at this for a while and I knew eventually I'd need a helping hand from you folk on here. So.. here goes

Symptoms:
  • Currently it will get P0306 and P0302 only around idle. I found it through a USB OBD reader.
  • When you start driving the car on the road, city or open the engine clears its throat somehow and the CEL disappears.
  • It is laggy and a little bumpy under load up till ~3000 RPM then once in higher RPM it seems good
  • Tonight when waiting for it to appear, CEL came on only when at low idle. When the lights are on, or radiator fan goes the RPM will rise (high idle?) and the misfire disappears. This was very interesting to me.
  • The misfire and CEL take several minutes to appear and worsen with time spent idling. ÁKA It doesn't appear as soon as you idle but does appear after a few minutes of sitting at idle
  • The smell of fuel is coming from the back end of the engine
Work Done:
  • Checked spark plugs and they are new NGK R's in good condition
  • Swapped the Coil packs from one side to the other, and the same with the injectors, only to find that it is still consistent on Cyl 2 and 6
  • It was worse, i.e When first purchased i was getting misfires on Cyl 1,2,4 & 6 but this has been made better with the use of some injector cleaner fuel additives, good fuel and a few "Italian cleans" on the highway
  • I have put Full synthetic 10W-30 in with a fresh filter
  • I replaced the Airbox which had a split down the back end of it. It also had some oily residue on it coming from the breather pipe from Bank 2's valve cover. The throttle body was filthy on the manifold side and the manifold did have evidence of old engine oil in there. These were cleaned and led to me clean up the PCV valve too. This improved the misifire a little too.
  • As a side note, changed the idler and tensioner bearings, and the P/S o-ring, thanks to the forums help for those.
Thoughts:
  • Does the EGR valve just aim stuff at any particular cyl, I.e 2 or 6? or Both? Can this cause bad combustion?
  • Compression probably needs to be checked. So that is in the back of my mind. I've read timing parts can be bad on these earlier EZ30's so I think this is a good way to check it. Is there something to read with RR to see if the timing is off?
  • I have read that the MAP sensor can produce bad readings if dirty, is that the one inside the airbox?

I have taken some values with RomRaider, not too sure on how to use it but I hope it helps. It sat idle with CEL on and nothing else running until the bump in the middle of the graph. That is where i turned the lights on and the car went to the higher idle and became more comfortable. It then settled down and regained its bumpy nature.

From this it looks like its trying to remove a lot of fuel from the mix. Especially on bank 2.

468633


Hopefully its not too bad a motor. I've bought it because I thought I was able to fix it, I'm not too bad with spanners and tools so I'm hoping with your help it'll be back running smoothly soon
 

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It isn't uncommon for fuel line connections to need tightening. I guess the rubber gets old or ???? Smell of fuel can be worse in cool weather.

you may have a small/medium vacuum leak. Might explain the pos. fuel corrections ? I wonder if carefully spraying starter fluid or propane around some vacuum lines and the intake manifold might change the idle speed if you find the vac. leak ?

find the fuel pressure regulator and make sure its vacuum line is dry. They sometimes leak fuel thru their diaphragm.

just guesses, but easy stuff to check.
 

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I think the cold might be affecting it. I am starting to think that checking the infamous O-ring problem is a good idea too. The fuel smell only seems to be there when the car is running and possibly out of the exhaust. So that hopefully eliminates leaks from other lines.

Vacuum lines we're checked and they were nice and dry

I think I did have a small vacuum leak! But nonetheless the problem hasn't disappeared entirely.
I found the intake manifold gasket on bank 2 was torn around the intake for cylinder 2 & 6 (the middle of the gasket was attached to the intake manifold and came up when I removed it)

468779


Also cleaned out the intake manifold an the top of the block with brake clean and degrease to get rid of most of the wet oil that has found its way in and around there. By looking at the assembly it looks like the oil is coming out from the PCV valve, down into the manifold and then out of the shaft of the vacuum actuated vane inside the manifold. Can someone explain to me what that vane does too? It was very dirty so that had to be cleaned too.
This wet oil i have assumed has come from the PCV valve.. After cleaning the PCV a while ago the motor has been acting a lot better.

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468781


Nonetheless, I put everything back together. It worked beautifully, and i took this romraider log of the vehicle idling soon after letting the car warm up. Idle is where my CEL comes on so this is where i record my logs.

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No CEL appeared after idling for a few minutes so i went for a drive and it was going great. Then i started to feel the sluggishness appear at low RPM, stopped after a good 20km drive and the bad idle appeared again. Maybe 2 minutes after idling the CEL appeared and i took these logs

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The image on the left just shows how the idle rises when the radiator fan comes on. It defintely doesnt misfire as much then. But the corrections are looking much worse after just a little drive. The CEL was the same codes (P0302, P0306) misfire on cyl 2 and 6.

What causes these misfire codes? Is it one sensor or a mix of a few that cause that code?

Can this be caused by the o-ring problem? I think i will have a look at this anyway and replace the ring.

Is it worthwhile to get a garage to do a fuel pressure check?

What does that vane on the underside of the manifold do?

Why is the motor going to negative trim, and why more on bank 2? Does that mean that it is trying to lean out the fuel mix? Is to much fuel is making its way into the combustion chamber? Where is the sensor that reads the fuel value and causes the leaning out?

Thanks for the help again. I got so excited when it worked nicely after placing everything back together and I'm looking forward to getting to the root of the problem
 

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yeah, it does seem the missing is detected as over-rich condition and the ecu is trying to pull fuel. Probably expalians rich-smelling exhaust (I think you mentioned that?)

The plgs, you feel certaing they are what the manual suggests and they are new and undamaged? (sometimes, folks can compromise the platinum plating or the iridium 'nubs' with incautious use of gapping tools.)

no wetness in the FPR vacuum line?

also, is there a noticeable difference in how quickly the car starts after an immediate shut-down vs , say , after sitting for a few hours? not the running, but the actual start?
 

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Swap plugs around too even if they look good. If it's still the same two cylinders I'd go straight to a compression check.
 

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Yeah, exhaust smelled a little petroly. Not heavily though. I wont look into it too much yet.

Noted, i will swap the plugs around next time i get the chance. I've got some photos from when I last removed them of the plug and the plug well for each cyl so that will have to do for the moment. Those are all attached. Gaps looked pretty similar to me but next time I get a weekend I'll pull them out and check them properly.

None of the vacuum lines seemed wet. Can you show me where the FPR is exaclty though? Then i can check it properly

I'm going to order a fuel pump O-ring as well this week as some preventative maintenance so will hopefully have an update on that in a weeks time.

The car starts inconsistently well. Most of the time (hot or cold) it starts nicely. Sometimes it will start bad and this can be after sitting for a while or if warmed up.


Swap plugs around too even if they look good. If it's still the same two cylinders I'd go straight to a compression check.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to a compression check haha
 

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Also some photos of the plug well's for good measure

I noted that bank 2 defintely was a little wetter with oil. This was the same case inside the manifold too. The vane inside the manifold showed a lot more oil on the left bank side of it aswell
 

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The line is dry from the regulator! And now I've been paying attention to how it starts.

If it hasn''t been driven overnight it will take a little time to start and run well (no misfires) for about 5 minutes of drive before the motor decides it wants to be a bit more sluggish.

If it has been started recently then it will start pretty promptly but the misfires will be found easier.

This weekend I'm going to look right over the fuel system and do the o-ring/cap and do the CV boots for good measure as they split a while ago
 

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That "vane" is the manifold runner and it moves to alter how the air flows in the intake. It is controlled by a vacuum switch. It either leaves the center open or closes it off. If oil is leaking out of it, the seal is bad along with a PCV issue, which you've corrected.

This is definitely a vacuum leak. The MAP is fluctuating too much.

There are seals on the top and bottom of the injectors on your engine that seal the injector to the equalizer ports in the heads. Both heads are connected by a pipe that runs in front of the intake and then has a hose on either end to connect to a port on the front of each head. These seals tend to harden and leak. This will allow air pressure out and in. They will also leak fuel. If you sprayed a stream at the base of each injector, the idle will change at the offensive seal.

I'd replace all of them if it's the leak source.

You may be able to find the seals at the part supplier or dealer. Here in the states, they come with the injectors.
 

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Leak found! There was some old manifold gasket stuck to the intake manifold deck of the head around cyl 2 and 6. I found the leak there by taking the airbox off of the throttle body and blocking it with some rubber gloves and electrical tape, then using a pike pump connected to the vacuum inlet on the manifold from the fuel pressure regulator and spraying soapy water around the manifold. It worked well because I could hear the bubbles and then go hunt for them.

I checked out my O-ring and cap and it seems perfectly ok. I wonder if due to a lack of ethanol our fuel in NZ isnt too bad for O-rings, dont quote me on that though, but I wonder.

Next i going to clean everything in the throttle body, IAC, MAP etc. The PCV issue had caused a massive buildup of oil in the intake manifold and it was all over the interior side of the throttle body butterfly so I wana have a good clean there. I think I'm gonna set up a oil catch can too instead of this PCV valve setup. Its fouled up again after ~1000kms which means its requiring a bit to much maintenance for my liking. Its kinda hard to find new PCV valves down here, and expensive to get one from Japan too so this seems logical

My other thought is fuel related issues. If i look down the intake runners to each cylinder with the manifold off there is more distinct oil residue on bank 2 than bank 1. Where the injector sprays petrol, the residue is completely gone on bank 1, but still there on bank 2, making me think that bank 2 isn't getting the same level of pressure that bank 1 is.. what do you guys think of that?
 

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Bank 2 gets majority of the EGR flow since the valve is bolted on the underside of that bank. Carbon will flow back in to the intake stream from the exhaust. This includes any unburned fuel, oil particulates, etc. It also means that bank 2 will run a different temperature which will affect deposits from the flow along with any oil particulate from the PCV system. So think of the PCV system pulling in oil particulate and then when the EGR is open you have added heat and exhaust mixing with the air stream as well. The added heat from the valve's position in conjunction with what is in the air coming in allows for extra build up.

You can utilize a cleaner such as Sea Foam or Berryman's B12 Chemtool and attach a hose to the top center vacuum port in conjunction with the other hoses and slow feed the cleaner in to the intake as the car idles. Have the car idling at about 1200 rpm and this will clean out the intake, cylinder head ports, valves and combustion chamber.

Getting the crankcase to breathe better and using good petrol with a high octane/RON rating will reduce particulates and help keep the engine cleaner.
 

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Long time no post,

In short it seems my journey with the Lancaster has ended abruptly as someone has seen it on the side of the road and decided they wanted to make it theirs without telling me.

The last thing I did to it was compression checks and saw that cyl 2 (150psi) and 4 (130psi) were well below the pressure for cyl 1 (180psi). I was pretty defeated at this point hence not checking all cyl's as this meant big work to come.

Nonetheless, I have really appreciated all the help on the forum from 1LuckyTexan and Cardoc. This place was a wealth of knowledge
 
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