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I have a 2007 outback 2.5l. I started having issues starting it sometimes, it would start right up most of the time but every once in a while it would crank and crank but wouldn't start. When it did start, it ran great. It hasn't started for over 6 weeks and I've replaced the fuel pump, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, spark plugs, battery, and the coil. I also removed the injectors and cleaned them and put new seals on them.

I can hear the fuel pump kick on when I turn the key to on. I removed the fuel line under the hood and it's bone dry. I also noticed the white piece of plastic inside my air intake box wasn't in place, I glued it back. I seen another person had a no start issue and had the same problem in their intake box.

I've seen posts about a fuel pressure regulator or sensor or valve, but I can't find it on my car and they don't even have one in the system for my car at the parts store I go to.

This started happening shortly after I replaced the back brake lines so I thought I may have pinched a hose, but as far as I can see there are no areas where the hoses are pinched together.

It starts when I spray carb cleaner in the intake.
 

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Have you replaced the intank “top hat” fuel filter which is the top part of the fuel pump assembly?

If this fuel filter is blocked fuel cannot flow (although it is not common for it to completely restrict fuel flow though it is possible)

Seagrass
 

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I can hear the fuel pump kick on when I turn the key to on. I removed the fuel line under the hood and it's bone dry.
As with mine, your 2007 has two lines coming into the engine compartment on the left (driver side). One is the fuel delivery to the rail, the other is the vapor line from the emissions canister at the rear to the purge valve mounted on the intake manifold. There are differences, e.g., the connectors, but are you sure the fuel delivery line is the one that was checked?

Have you checked the pressure in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment when the ignition switch is turned to ON (not cranking) and then while cranking? When the ignition is turned to ON, the pump motor should run for about 2 seconds (which you confirmed). Pressure should reach the mid-40 psi range. Do it again (Off, then back to On) and it will reach 50 psi. During cranking and running, it should be around 50 psi.

I've seen posts about a fuel pressure regulator or sensor or valve, but I can't find it on my car
The fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter (as @seagrass noted), pump motor, and fuel level sensor, are all integrated into the fuel pump assembly in the tank.



Did you replace the complete assembly (perhaps minus the fuel level sensor) or just the pump motor? If just the pump motor, then, yes, the filter (a large crescent-shaped housing) could be blocked, the regulator could be malfunctioning, or one of the o-rings on the assembly might have failed or isn't installed correctly, allowing pumped fuel to dump right back into the tank.

See this thread, and included links, for more details on the filter: Strange Stutter While Accelerating

This started happening shortly after I replaced the back brake lines
If the complete pump assembly is new, and runs, yet the fuel delivery line is dry, I'd suspect a problem in the line which might have inadvertently been affected. Which lines (from where to where, and what path) were replaced?

I also noticed the white piece of plastic inside my air intake box wasn't in place, I glued it back. I seen another person had a no start issue and had the same problem in their intake box.
Couple of notes:

That piece inside the air box at the back of the engine should not affect starting, unless, somehow, it has positioned itself so as to block the flow of air, which is unlikely. I would think that if removingfixing/replacing the airbox corrected a no-start condition, there more likely was something else amiss that was "corrected" while working on the airbox. But I'd be interested in seeing that case -- do you have a link to it?

How did you manage to glue the white piece back in the original place? There's not much access to the interior of the airbox without cutting it apart?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Have you replaced the intank “top hat” fuel filter which is the top part of the fuel pump assembly?

If this fuel filter is blocked fuel cannot flow (although it is not common for it to completely restrict fuel flow though it is possible)

Seagrass
I did not, I just replaced the pump and the mesh filter that sticks on the bottom of the pump. I just ordered one, hopefully it’s the problem. Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As with mine, your 2007 has two lines coming into the engine compartment on the left (driver side). One is the fuel delivery to the rail, the other is the vapor line from the emissions canister at the rear to the purge valve mounted on the intake manifold. There are differences, e.g., the connectors, but are you sure the fuel delivery line is the one that was checked?

Have you checked the pressure in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment when the ignition switch is turned to ON (not cranking) and then while cranking? When the ignition is turned to ON, the pump motor should run for about 2 seconds (which you confirmed). Pressure should reach the mid-40 psi range. Do it again (Off, then back to On) and it will reach 50 psi. During cranking and running, it should be around 50 psi.



The fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter (as @seagrass noted), pump motor, and fuel level sensor, are all integrated into the fuel pump assembly in the tank.



Did you replace the complete assembly (perhaps minus the fuel level sensor) or just the pump motor? If just the pump motor, then, yes, the filter (a large crescent-shaped housing) could be blocked, the regulator could be malfunctioning, or one of the o-rings on the assembly might have failed or isn't installed correctly, allowing pumped fuel to dump right back into the tank.

See this thread, and included links, for more details on the filter: Strange Stutter While Accelerating



If the complete pump assembly is new, and runs, yet the fuel delivery line is dry, I'd suspect a problem in the line which might have inadvertently been affected. Which lines (from where to where, and what path) were replaced?


Couple of notes:

That piece inside the air box at the back of the engine should not affect starting, unless, somehow, it has positioned itself so as to block the flow of air, which is unlikely. I would think that if removingfixing/replacing the airbox corrected a no-start condition, there more likely was something else amiss that was "corrected" while working on the airbox. But I'd be interested in seeing that case -- do you have a link to it?

How did you manage to glue the white piece back in the original place? There's not much access to the interior of the airbox without cutting it apart?
I just replaced the pump so maybe the filter is the problem. I just ordered one!
I used rv glue, there’s a lip on the bottom that the white plastic piece rests on, I put a big glob on there and got the piece back in place with a screwdriver and my fingers. Once it set I glued around the inside gap between the housing and the piece, hopefully it stays. In the post that I found it had pics of it cut open so I knew how it went. That guy had a bad camshaft sensor though.

I took the filter out and cleaned it with carb cleaner. I got it to start for 5 seconds after so hopefully new one fixes it. Thank you!
 

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Pay attention to the o-ring that plain om mentioned above. If that is old, bad, or installed wrong when replacing the pump, it’ll dump fuel as he described. That’s where i’d focus.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As with mine, your 2007 has two lines coming into the engine compartment on the left (driver side). One is the fuel delivery to the rail, the other is the vapor line from the emissions canister at the rear to the purge valve mounted on the intake manifold. There are differences, e.g., the connectors, but are you sure the fuel delivery line is the one that was checked?

Have you checked the pressure in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment when the ignition switch is turned to ON (not cranking) and then while cranking? When the ignition is turned to ON, the pump motor should run for about 2 seconds (which you confirmed). Pressure should reach the mid-40 psi range. Do it again (Off, then back to On) and it will reach 50 psi. During cranking and running, it should be around 50 psi.



The fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter (as @seagrass noted), pump motor, and fuel level sensor, are all integrated into the fuel pump assembly in the tank.



Did you replace the complete assembly (perhaps minus the fuel level sensor) or just the pump motor? If just the pump motor, then, yes, the filter (a large crescent-shaped housing) could be blocked, the regulator could be malfunctioning, or one of the o-rings on the assembly might have failed or isn't installed correctly, allowing pumped fuel to dump right back into the tank.

See this thread, and included links, for more details on the filter: Strange Stutter While Accelerating



If the complete pump assembly is new, and runs, yet the fuel delivery line is dry, I'd suspect a problem in the line which might have inadvertently been affected. Which lines (from where to where, and what path) were replaced?


Couple of notes:

That piece inside the air box at the back of the engine should not affect starting, unless, somehow, it has positioned itself so as to block the flow of air, which is unlikely. I would think that if removingfixing/replacing the airbox corrected a no-start condition, there more likely was something else amiss that was "corrected" while working on the airbox. But I'd be interested in seeing that case -- do you have a link to it?

How did you manage to glue the white piece back in the original place? There's not much access to the interior of the airbox without cutting it apart?
I got the filter today and new o rings for it, installed it and the first time I tried to start it, it sputtered like it was going to start but then back to just cranking over with no start.
I got some codes now though: p0031, p0102, p0113.
 

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p0102, p0113.
MAF sensor connector might be loose or off.

Often, a failed A/F Sensor heater element or connections to it.

I don't think these codes would prevent the fuel pump from operating and building fuel pressure in the fuel delivery line to the engine.

However, check SBF-7, 30 Amps, in the engine compartment fuse box. It has a role in providing power to the MAF sensor and the A/F Sensor heater.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
MAF sensor connector might be loose or off.


Often, a failed A/F Sensor heater element or connections to it.

I don't think these codes would prevent the fuel pump from operating and building fuel pressure in the fuel delivery line to the engine.

However, check SBF-7, 30 Amps, in the engine compartment fuse box. It has a role in providing power to the MAF sensor and the A/F Sensor heater.
Yeah the connector was loose, still no start. I cleared the codes and none came back.
 

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I just noticed a hum from the top center of the engine when the key is turned to on, never noticed it before
 

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I just noticed a hum from the top center of the engine when the key is turned to on, never noticed it before
It's probably the throttle plate motor. When the ignition is at ON, the throttle plate is moved from a mechanical rest position, to a setting for starting the engine. It's driven by a stepper motor. It's not unusual for it to buzz/hum. My 07 does it, and others have reported the same here.

Get hold of a fuel pressure test kit, and check for pressure at the fuel delivery hose in the engine area. The kits are often available on free loan (refundable deposit) from auto parts stores. Have to know if there's proper fuel supply and if not, work on that. No fuel, no start regardless of what might be happening elsewhere.

(You've replaced a lot of parts in the hope one of them would solve the problem. Perhaps now the focus should be diagnosis/analysis. Fuel. Spark. Air. Timing.)

Mileage? What's the service record? Timing belt and pulleys/tensioner replaced on schedule or earlier?
 

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It's probably the throttle plate motor. When the ignition is at ON, the throttle plate is moved from a mechanical rest position, to a setting for starting the engine. It's driven by a stepper motor. It's not unusual for it to buzz/hum. My 07 does it, and others have reported the same here.

Get hold of a fuel pressure test kit, and check for pressure at the fuel delivery hose in the engine area. The kits are often available on free loan (refundable deposit) from auto parts stores. Have to know if there's proper fuel supply and if not, work on that. No fuel, no start regardless of what might be happening elsewhere.

(You've replaced a lot of parts in the hope one of them would solve the problem. Perhaps now the focus should be diagnosis/analysis. Fuel. Spark. Air. Timing.)

Mileage? What's the service record? Timing belt and pulleys/tensioner replaced on schedule or earlier?
They don’t have a kit at the parts store that’s in walking distance, but I ordered one on amazon and it says it will be here tomorrow. I don’t have a valve to screw onto, so I’m assuming I gotta tap into the line somewhere. There’s a little black can near the battery, can I remove that and splice in there?
I had someone here from Subaru and he checked the timing, we had to remove a lot of stuff to check it. Although he also determined there was no spark but after getting a spark tester and new spark plugs I found out that wasn’t the case. I tried to rent a compression tester and a fuel pressure tester but they didn’t have either. The guy working told me that if I can get it to start by spraying carb cleaner in the intake then it’s fuel.
I checked the voltage of the injectors and they seem fine so it’s gotta be a bad line somewhere. Or maybe one of the connections to the tank or fuel pump is cracked.
I’ll test the pressure and post the results. Thanks for all your help
 

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I don’t have a valve to screw onto, so I’m assuming I gotta tap into the line somewhere. There’s a little black can near the battery, can I remove that and splice in there?
There's no valve. But the fuel delivery line has a fuel pulsation damper (perhaps that "black can") in it:



The fuel pressure gauge kit will probably come with small sections of rubber fuel line and clamps. Using these, the gauge "T" fitting can be spliced in at the damper.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
There's no valve. But the fuel delivery line has a fuel pulsation damper (perhaps that "black can") in it:



The fuel pressure gauge kit will probably come with small sections of rubber fuel line and clamps. Using these, the gauge "T" fitting can be spliced in at the damper.
I get no pressure at all. None when turned to on or cranking. I can feel the fuel pump kick on with my hand on it as I turn the key. When I took the damper hose off, no fuel came out but it was wet inside and smells like gas.
I can feel the brake lines I put in crossing over the fuel lines that connect to the fuel pump but they're not tight as far as I can tell. The new brake line goes from a connector under the rear passenger seat and goes to the rear drivers side wheel.
 

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I can feel the fuel pump kick on with my hand on it as I turn the key
Should be able to hear the pump run for 2 seconds or so when the key is turned from Off/ACC to On (not to Start). It should also be running when the engine is cranking.

I get no pressure at all. None when turned to on or cranking.
I presume it was cranked long enough that fuel should have refilled the delivery line to whatever extent fuel might have drained from the line when the ends were disconnected. If there's adequate fuel in the tank and the pump motor was running while cranking, yet there's no fuel in the line, then either the line is blocked, or there's a problem at the pump.

This started happening shortly after I replaced the back brake lines
Did you remove the two fuel lines at the pump when replacing the brake lines?

I don't think the two fuel lines connecting to the top of the pump can be reversed, but it might be something to double check. (If they were, that would cause fuel picked up by the pump in the passenger side tank to be sent to the driver side tank, with nothing going forward to the engine.) Can you post a photo of the top of the pump with the two lines connected?

I can feel the brake lines I put in crossing over the fuel lines that connect to the fuel pump but they're not tight as far as I can tell.
Although I haven't had that area across the top of the tank disassembled enough to see, I doubt the brake line should cross over the fuel lines in any way. They might run in parallel from the right side to the left, but if they cross, that doesn't seem right, all the more so if they are in contact with each other!

The timing with the brake work could be coincidence, especially if there were instances of hard starting before the brake line replacement. I'm not sure, but I suspect that the ECM will disable the fuel pump if it doesn't detect the engine cranking when the key is at start. This would be based on signals from the crankshaft position and/or camshaft position sensor. As I noted earlier, the pump should be running while cranking. Is there a way that you can listen at the pump while someone turns the key to crank the engine, to see if it is running?

Alternatively, can you monitor the voltage going to the pump motor at the connector on top of the pump assembly? The two wires are colored 1) green with a red stripe, and 2) green with a yellow stripe. Although it might be hard to read the voltage during the short 2-second priming, when the engine is cranking there should be 12+ V.
 

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When I did the brakes, I just cut the old line on each end of the rear tank and left a piece back there, but when I installed the new line I put it on the front side of the tank under the seat right where the fuel lines come off the fuel pump. The no start issue didn't start happening for at least a few months after I did the brakes. No pressure tho, it'd have to be pressed into something pretty hard. Even if the pump wasn't the right specs I'd still get some pressure.
It's probably not the pump because the car is doing exactly what it was doing before I put the new pump in. It did the no start thing sometimes for 3-4 months before it stopped starting at all. During the time it was not starting sometimes it seemed to start right up the first time I started it, but if I just went a couple miles away to go shopping it wouldn't start for a while. When it did start it ran great, no power loss or rough idle and it never stalled, it would stay running until I turned it off. I went on some pretty long trips too, I didn't turn my car off because I was afraid it wouldn't start. And of course every time I took it somewhere to be looked at it would start right up every time.
 
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