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2007 2.5l cranks won't start, no fuel to the rail but pump is new and can hear it kick on

12K views 49 replies 5 participants last post by  plain OM 
#1 ·
I have a 2007 outback 2.5l. I started having issues starting it sometimes, it would start right up most of the time but every once in a while it would crank and crank but wouldn't start. When it did start, it ran great. It hasn't started for over 6 weeks and I've replaced the fuel pump, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, spark plugs, battery, and the coil. I also removed the injectors and cleaned them and put new seals on them.

I can hear the fuel pump kick on when I turn the key to on. I removed the fuel line under the hood and it's bone dry. I also noticed the white piece of plastic inside my air intake box wasn't in place, I glued it back. I seen another person had a no start issue and had the same problem in their intake box.

I've seen posts about a fuel pressure regulator or sensor or valve, but I can't find it on my car and they don't even have one in the system for my car at the parts store I go to.

This started happening shortly after I replaced the back brake lines so I thought I may have pinched a hose, but as far as I can see there are no areas where the hoses are pinched together.

It starts when I spray carb cleaner in the intake.
 
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#2 ·
Have you replaced the intank “top hat” fuel filter which is the top part of the fuel pump assembly?

If this fuel filter is blocked fuel cannot flow (although it is not common for it to completely restrict fuel flow though it is possible)

Seagrass
 
#3 ·
I can hear the fuel pump kick on when I turn the key to on. I removed the fuel line under the hood and it's bone dry.
As with mine, your 2007 has two lines coming into the engine compartment on the left (driver side). One is the fuel delivery to the rail, the other is the vapor line from the emissions canister at the rear to the purge valve mounted on the intake manifold. There are differences, e.g., the connectors, but are you sure the fuel delivery line is the one that was checked?

Have you checked the pressure in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment when the ignition switch is turned to ON (not cranking) and then while cranking? When the ignition is turned to ON, the pump motor should run for about 2 seconds (which you confirmed). Pressure should reach the mid-40 psi range. Do it again (Off, then back to On) and it will reach 50 psi. During cranking and running, it should be around 50 psi.

I've seen posts about a fuel pressure regulator or sensor or valve, but I can't find it on my car
The fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter (as @seagrass noted), pump motor, and fuel level sensor, are all integrated into the fuel pump assembly in the tank.



Did you replace the complete assembly (perhaps minus the fuel level sensor) or just the pump motor? If just the pump motor, then, yes, the filter (a large crescent-shaped housing) could be blocked, the regulator could be malfunctioning, or one of the o-rings on the assembly might have failed or isn't installed correctly, allowing pumped fuel to dump right back into the tank.

See this thread, and included links, for more details on the filter: Strange Stutter While Accelerating

This started happening shortly after I replaced the back brake lines
If the complete pump assembly is new, and runs, yet the fuel delivery line is dry, I'd suspect a problem in the line which might have inadvertently been affected. Which lines (from where to where, and what path) were replaced?

I also noticed the white piece of plastic inside my air intake box wasn't in place, I glued it back. I seen another person had a no start issue and had the same problem in their intake box.
Couple of notes:

That piece inside the air box at the back of the engine should not affect starting, unless, somehow, it has positioned itself so as to block the flow of air, which is unlikely. I would think that if removingfixing/replacing the airbox corrected a no-start condition, there more likely was something else amiss that was "corrected" while working on the airbox. But I'd be interested in seeing that case -- do you have a link to it?

How did you manage to glue the white piece back in the original place? There's not much access to the interior of the airbox without cutting it apart?
 
#5 ·
As with mine, your 2007 has two lines coming into the engine compartment on the left (driver side). One is the fuel delivery to the rail, the other is the vapor line from the emissions canister at the rear to the purge valve mounted on the intake manifold. There are differences, e.g., the connectors, but are you sure the fuel delivery line is the one that was checked?

Have you checked the pressure in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment when the ignition switch is turned to ON (not cranking) and then while cranking? When the ignition is turned to ON, the pump motor should run for about 2 seconds (which you confirmed). Pressure should reach the mid-40 psi range. Do it again (Off, then back to On) and it will reach 50 psi. During cranking and running, it should be around 50 psi.



The fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter (as @seagrass noted), pump motor, and fuel level sensor, are all integrated into the fuel pump assembly in the tank.



Did you replace the complete assembly (perhaps minus the fuel level sensor) or just the pump motor? If just the pump motor, then, yes, the filter (a large crescent-shaped housing) could be blocked, the regulator could be malfunctioning, or one of the o-rings on the assembly might have failed or isn't installed correctly, allowing pumped fuel to dump right back into the tank.

See this thread, and included links, for more details on the filter: Strange Stutter While Accelerating



If the complete pump assembly is new, and runs, yet the fuel delivery line is dry, I'd suspect a problem in the line which might have inadvertently been affected. Which lines (from where to where, and what path) were replaced?


Couple of notes:

That piece inside the air box at the back of the engine should not affect starting, unless, somehow, it has positioned itself so as to block the flow of air, which is unlikely. I would think that if removingfixing/replacing the airbox corrected a no-start condition, there more likely was something else amiss that was "corrected" while working on the airbox. But I'd be interested in seeing that case -- do you have a link to it?

How did you manage to glue the white piece back in the original place? There's not much access to the interior of the airbox without cutting it apart?
I just replaced the pump so maybe the filter is the problem. I just ordered one!
I used rv glue, there’s a lip on the bottom that the white plastic piece rests on, I put a big glob on there and got the piece back in place with a screwdriver and my fingers. Once it set I glued around the inside gap between the housing and the piece, hopefully it stays. In the post that I found it had pics of it cut open so I knew how it went. That guy had a bad camshaft sensor though.

I took the filter out and cleaned it with carb cleaner. I got it to start for 5 seconds after so hopefully new one fixes it. Thank you!
 
#12 ·
It's probably the throttle plate motor. When the ignition is at ON, the throttle plate is moved from a mechanical rest position, to a setting for starting the engine. It's driven by a stepper motor. It's not unusual for it to buzz/hum. My 07 does it, and others have reported the same here.

Get hold of a fuel pressure test kit, and check for pressure at the fuel delivery hose in the engine area. The kits are often available on free loan (refundable deposit) from auto parts stores. Have to know if there's proper fuel supply and if not, work on that. No fuel, no start regardless of what might be happening elsewhere.

(You've replaced a lot of parts in the hope one of them would solve the problem. Perhaps now the focus should be diagnosis/analysis. Fuel. Spark. Air. Timing.)

Mileage? What's the service record? Timing belt and pulleys/tensioner replaced on schedule or earlier?
 
#20 ·
When I did the brakes, I just cut the old line on each end of the rear tank and left a piece back there, but when I installed the new line I put it on the front side of the tank under the seat right where the fuel lines come off the fuel pump. The no start issue didn't start happening for at least a few months after I did the brakes. No pressure tho, it'd have to be pressed into something pretty hard. Even if the pump wasn't the right specs I'd still get some pressure.
It's probably not the pump because the car is doing exactly what it was doing before I put the new pump in. It did the no start thing sometimes for 3-4 months before it stopped starting at all. During the time it was not starting sometimes it seemed to start right up the first time I started it, but if I just went a couple miles away to go shopping it wouldn't start for a while. When it did start it ran great, no power loss or rough idle and it never stalled, it would stay running until I turned it off. I went on some pretty long trips too, I didn't turn my car off because I was afraid it wouldn't start. And of course every time I took it somewhere to be looked at it would start right up every time.
 
#23 ·
If the pump is running AND you have little to no fuel coming out the fuel pump assembly outlet THEN the problem is in the fuel pump assembly somehwere.

From memory there is a short section of fuel hose that joins the pump to the assembly and the fuel then runs through the assembly housing before exiting through the outlet (Your pump assembly may be different)

Maybe the fuel is escaping at one of these areas.

Seagrass
 
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#29 ·
I was able to blow on the two connectors on top and by plugging all the holes and hoses and they’re both tight. The only thing I noticed was the burnt plastic next to the power connector
Burnt plastic where normally there shouldn't be a lot of heat . . .

Is it a crack that's filled in with dark material, or is it actually burned plastic? If it's burned, it could be a conductive carbon-type trace. If the burned plastic extends to the two terminals for the pump motor, that could affect the power for the motor. Without full power, the motor might run, but not as fast as it should, and that could result in insufficient pressure.

Looking at the photos, and the ones in the linked posts, the larger black hose goes from the fuel delivery fitting on the top of the pump assembly to the bottom of the fuel filter. The other, narrower, hose, goes from the venturi pump down to that black device, which I believe is the fuel pressure regulator. The regulator is also fitted to the bottom of the fuel filter. Both of those appear to be removable fittings, probably with o-rings, which need to be checked very closely for weaknesses/cracks. (The normal pressure at those points is around 50 psi, not insignificant, and even a small fault can cause a significant reduction.) Same for the connection between the pump motor and the input to the fuel filter.
 
#38 ·
I doubt it will be the fuel pressure regulator as it is after the fuel dampener and I believe you have advised that you have no fuel pressure at the fuel dampener.

Follow the symptoms and you will find the problem, no fuel pressure in the fuel line suggests a fuel pump or fuel line problem.

Seagrass
 
#40 ·
I doubt it will be the fuel pressure regulator as it is after the fuel dampener and I believe you have advised that you have no fuel pressure at the fuel dampener.
If I understand this correctly, you're referring to the fuel pulsation damper that is in the fuel delivery line in the engine compartment area.

The fuel pressure regulator is mounted on the fuel pump assembly and therefore is (well) before the damper. It's shown in the photos above.

The input to the regulator is directly from the large fuel filter on the fuel pump. If the pressure is high, the regulator opens, allowing excess pressure to be bled off by dumping fuel directly back into the fuel tank. If the regulator were to be broken such that the dump valve is wide open all the time, the pressure in the fuel delivery line could be seriously low.
 
#39 ·
It runs! it was the o ring on top of the fuel pump. After I tried it without an o ring there was no sputter like there was after I put the new filter in, so I went thru my o ring collection and found one that fit and it started right up! No I have 2 flat tires to deal with from sitting for so long but thats easy. Thank you guys for all your help, I would still be replacing parts lol. Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!
 
#41 ·
Fantastic.

In summary, as I understand the saga, a bad o-ring caused the car not to start due to loss of pressure, but it wasn't identified. Replacing the pump motor and then the filter didn't correct the problem because the bad o-ring was still in there. Removing the o-ring worsened the symptom (no sputter versus some sputter), and replacing with a new o-ring solved the no-start problem.

Something to learn, and keep in mind . . .
 
#45 ·
This car is trying to drive me crazy! I was just driving and I was at a red light and had no power when the light turned green. I pumped the gas a few times and it went. I got on the highway and when I got off, same thing, no power. When I just got home I turned the car off and the brakes lights and parking lights stay on with the key off. I had to disconnect the battery to get them to turn off.
 
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