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04 Toyota Land Tank
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Discussion Starter #1
I am new to this forum, and joined because I am very seriously considering a 2013 Legacy or Outback. I currently drive a Land Cruiser, but my daily commute has recently changed, and I need something that will do better than 14mpg on a good day. I have been a subaru fan since my first ride in an early 80's GL wagon with the old white wagon wheels, but have never owned one. I'm leaning toward the Legacy sedan because of looks, price, and handling. Has anyone had any experience on the beaches with the legacy sedan? I know the Outback is a capable beach vehicle given it's almost 9" of ground clearance, but I am a little concerned about the Legacy's 6" of clearance. We spend a lot of time on Corova Beach in the OBX, and my buddies with trucks wouldn't let me hear the end of it if they had to tow my subaru with their trucks if I was stuck.
Thanks in advance. Phil
 

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2006 Outback Wagon 2.5i 5spd MT Atlantic Blue Pearl
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Welcome to the forum!

Never dealt with an OB (or a Legacy, for that matter) on the beach, but if you're worried about ground clearance (and I would be too), just go with the OB. How well does your Cruiser handle it right now (clearance-wise)? If I remember correctly, the 100 series Cruisers were somewhere around 7-8"? Most of my Cruiser experience has been with my dad's lifted FJ60 :-D
 

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2009 Tribeca Now - 2004 Outback EJ259 - Sold
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Depends on the type of sand.
Hard packed & slightly damp?
Soft sinking dry sand?

Any car can drive on the beach if the sand is firm enough.

If its soft at all the Legacy won't be going very far no matter how low you air down the tires.
For soft sand you need tires with sidewall & 10-15 psi pressure.
Low profile tires are destined to fail in the sand, entertaining to watch though.
New 2011 VW Touareg FAIL - YouTube
 

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2007 Outback XT Ltd
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I agree - get the OB for its better clearance, and consider upgrading the wheels to a minus one size, and put some fatter rubber on them so you can air down at least a few psi.....

What model Cruiser do you have? I would kill for 14 mpg. My city mileage is 10 and I am lucky to see 13 on the highway. My truck is a '96 LX450 and it is far from stock....

John Davies
Spokane WA USA
 

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All depends on the sand. Rutted out dune road the legacy wont be happy.

Took my old legacy tbrough some tough spots. Never got stuck but found the limit to the clearance. Flat beach type stuff legacy will easily do it. Rutted dune type stuff the OB might even find it tough.
 

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04 Toyota Land Tank
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Discussion Starter #6
Sublime sailor: looks like a great time!
I've got a 100 series cruiser. Haven't had it on the beach yet, but It replaced an 80 series (1996) that handled well in the sand....despite its weight.

Let me pose another question: do you consider the outback an old man's car? I love them, but my wife and friends think I am crazy. Any thoughts?
 

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Let me pose another question: do you consider the outback an old man's car? I love them, but my wife and friends think I am crazy. Any thoughts?
The main thing is not green color :)
Green Outback is a car for farmers what Jeremy said in top gear...
 

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2006 Outback Wagon 2.5i 5spd MT Atlantic Blue Pearl
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Let me pose another question: do you consider the outback an old man's car? I love them, but my wife and friends think I am crazy. Any thoughts?
I get teased more about it being a Lesbaru....never been teased about it being an old man's car. But you know what? I can always get from point A to point B in the snow. More importantly, I can always make it home from work.
 

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I get teased more about it being a Lesbaru....never been teased about it being an old man's car. But you know what? I can always get from point A to point B in the snow. More importantly, I can always make it home from work.
Look at it this way all the homes in my hood are worth north of 1million a pop. In 09 when we moved in we had the only Subaru around the entire area. All the houses had Mercedes GL's and top trim Toyota's and lexus, a couple of Tesla sports cars - lots of Land Cruisers and every other house seems to have a 911. Three years later I've counted about 10 Gen4 Subaru's legacy, OB and even two new Imprezas. I think value for the money speaks louder than the old rainbow sticker on the old clapped out beater OB. LOL
 

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2004 Outback Wagon, 2.5, 4EAT, All weather package.
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Look at it this way all the homes in my hood are worth north of 1million a pop. In 09 when we moved in we had the only Subaru around the entire area. All the houses had Mercedes GL's and top trim Toyota's and lexus, a couple of Tesla sports cars - lots of Land Cruisers and every other house seems to have a 911. Three years later I've counted about 10 Gen4 Subaru's legacy, OB and even two new Imprezas. I think value for the money speaks louder than the old rainbow sticker on the old clapped out beater OB. LOL
I wondered what kind of neighborhood you lived in when you talk about a few of your neighbors having Teslas, which you NEVER see around here, even in the very nice areas. Then again, the streets of Pittsburgh would chew up and spit out most of the pretty little sports cars. By comparison, the ceiling price for a home in my neighborhood is about $90k. I live in a townhouse though. Neighbor up the street has an '07ish Forester. I think that is the only other Subaru on the street.
 

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I wondered what kind of neighborhood you lived in when you talk about a few of your neighbors having Teslas, which you NEVER see around here, even in the very nice areas. Then again, the streets of Pittsburgh would chew up and spit out most of the pretty little sports cars. By comparison, the ceiling price for a home in my neighborhood is about $90k. I live in a townhouse though. Neighbor up the street has an '07ish Forester. I think that is the only other Subaru on the street.
Bay Area was just listed second for the most wealth in the US. The mow and Blow yard crews around here charge $400 a month for two 15 minute mow and blow's a month. I do my own yard work I ran rough numbers on the guy who does 4 houses on our street his truck parks in one spot and in an hour twice a month he pulls down 4X$400 - I spoke to him the first year we were here and asked how many houses he had a day. He does between 6 and 8 houses a day. Since then I've spoken to him a few more times BSing about pruning etc and turns out he owns two homes in the next town over. He pulls down more than I do and will probably be long retired before I ever start thinking I can retire.

Different world - when you live in one the top largest economies in the World yes CA is one of the largest economic players in the World - if we could succeed from the US we would be one of the wealthiest places on Earth. The Oil fields we have are only just now being looked at estimated numbers are 50yrs worth of oil that would supply CA and exported. So we haven't even tapped that bank account yet.
 

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2004 Outback Wagon, 2.5, 4EAT, All weather package.
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Bay Area was just listed second for the most wealth in the US. The mow and Blow yard crews around here charge $400 a month for two 15 minute mow and blow's a month. I do my own yard work I ran rough numbers on the guy who does 4 houses on our street his truck parks in one spot and in an hour twice a month he pulls down 4X$400 - I spoke to him the first year we were here and asked how many houses he had a day. He does between 6 and 8 houses a day. Since then I've spoken to him a few more times BSing about pruning etc and turns out he owns two homes in the next town over. He pulls down more than I do and will probably be long retired before I ever start thinking I can retire.

Different world - when you live in one the top largest economies in the World yes CA is one of the largest economic players in the World - if we could succeed from the US we would be one of the wealthiest places on Earth. The Oil fields we have are only just now being looked at estimated numbers are 50yrs worth of oil that would supply CA and exported. So we haven't even tapped that bank account yet.
I honestly would have little interest in moving to CA. I like how quiet and relaxed pace Pennsylvania is. Pittsburgh has repeatedly been on the top of the lists for "America's Most Liveable City" and "Most affordable city". Through the tough economic times in recent years Pittsburgh's economy has remained unchanged for the most part. There is still a pretty strong job market around here, and housing is affordable. A lot of people still picture us as being a dirty "steel city". In actuality most of our economy is based on banking, education, healthcare, and technology industries. We're very clean. There are a few major pharmaceutical companies in the area as well (Glaxo-Smith-Kline and Bayer North America).

My next door neighbors are from Orange County, CA. Moved here about 6 years ago after living in CA all their lives. They said the only thing they really miss about Orange County is being 10 minutes from the beach. And apparently their townhouse here that cost $90k would be about ~$350k in their area (from what she told me).
 

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I honestly would have little interest in moving to CA. I like how quiet and relaxed pace Pennsylvania is. Pittsburgh has repeatedly been on the top of the lists for "America's Most Liveable City" and "Most affordable city". Through the tough economic times in recent years Pittsburgh's economy has remained unchanged for the most part. There is still a pretty strong job market around here, and housing is affordable. A lot of people still picture us as being a dirty "steel city". In actuality most of our economy is based on banking, education, healthcare, and technology industries. We're very clean. There are a few major pharmaceutical companies in the area as well (Glaxo-Smith-Kline and Bayer North America).

My next door neighbors are from Orange County, CA. Moved here about 6 years ago after living in CA all their lives. They said the only thing they really miss about Orange County is being 10 minutes from the beach. And apparently their townhouse here that cost $90k would be about ~$350k in their area (from what she told me).
I always laugh at people who comment on pace of life. Socal is more laid back and slower than almost every place I've been. They even write songs about it. Bay Area makes Socal look like a sleepy little town south of the border. However 45 minutes outside of the Bay Area you have one the largest AG producing regions in the US those towns are sleepy. CA is MASSIVE and has every conceivable living situation you can think of.

We have far far too many people here already though so stay where you are glad your happy there. ;-) I have many friends who have left CA for very high paying very good career opportunities on the East Coast - all of them have come back and many of them are from the East Coast to start with and still have family back there even more reason to go back but so far none of them have the slightest interest in doing that.
 

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I always laugh at people who comment on pace of life. Socal is more laid back and slower than almost every place I've been. They even write songs about it. Bay Area makes Socal look like a sleepy little town south of the border. However 45 minutes outside of the Bay Area you have one the largest AG producing regions in the US those towns are sleepy. CA is MASSIVE and has every conceivable living situation you can think of.

We have far far too many people here already though so stay where you are glad your happy there. ;-) I have many friends who have left CA for very high paying very good career opportunities on the East Coast - all of them have come back and many of them are from the East Coast to start with and still have family back there even more reason to go back but so far none of them have the slightest interest in doing that.
I guess it takes a certain kind of person. My neighbors are a young family with younger children. Part of their point in moving was the state of public schooling in their area was apparently abysmal. They go back to CA on vacation usually once a year, but have no interest in moving anywhere except to maybe another house in the area (they want more room). I've lived here all my life, but from the little bit I've traveled I always find myself glad to be home and glad to live where I do. Pittsburgh is a unique pace. No other place I've been can compare.
 

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2006 Outback Wagon 2.5i 5spd MT Atlantic Blue Pearl
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Look at it this way all the homes in my hood are worth north of 1million a pop. In 09 when we moved in we had the only Subaru around the entire area. All the houses had Mercedes GL's and top trim Toyota's and lexus, a couple of Tesla sports cars - lots of Land Cruisers and every other house seems to have a 911. Three years later I've counted about 10 Gen4 Subaru's legacy, OB and even two new Imprezas. I think value for the money speaks louder than the old rainbow sticker on the old clapped out beater OB. LOL
Haha....true that. It's mostly just my friends that tease me (and they're pretty much required to....if they didn't, they wouldn't be my friends). I'm originally from the Greater Los Angeles Area, and it was nice moving to New Hampshire.....less of the latest/flashiest BMWs and Benzes (thankfully) and more of the practical Subarus. People always ask if I'll be able to get into work due to snow.....my response is that I have an Outback, and people are all "oh yeah you're fine." AWD + ground clearance ftw.
 

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Haha....true that. It's mostly just my friends that tease me (and they're pretty much required to....if they didn't, they wouldn't be my friends). I'm originally from the Greater Los Angeles Area, and it was nice moving to New Hampshire.....less of the latest/flashiest BMWs and Benzes (thankfully) and more of the practical Subarus. People always ask if I'll be able to get into work due to snow.....my response is that I have an Outback, and people are all "oh yeah you're fine." AWD + ground clearance ftw.
The new Gen4's are selling well even in places where there isn't snow. Simply the perfect size and the right price for the family hauler. Same goes for the new Gen4 Legacy hard value to ignore regardless of where you live.
 

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Subaru is trying to become more mainstream and it's working. I'm seeing a lot more around the St. Louis area all the time.
 

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for 2013 i'd recommend a forester over either a legacy or outback. the OB comes with the CVT, not the best trans for off-road/beach/sand use. The Forester comes with 5MT and/turbo.
Among other reasons, I'd suggest a Fozzy over an outback for that generation (i.e. newest) Subarus.
 

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for 2013 i'd recommend a forester over either a legacy or outback. the OB comes with the CVT, not the best trans for off-road/beach/sand use. The Forester comes with 5MT and/turbo.
Among other reasons, I'd suggest a Fozzy over an outback for that generation (i.e. newest) Subarus.
I'm very curious about your thoughts on this. Obviously your very experienced in building capable off road vehicles but here's where the question comes into play about the CVT. Nearly every manufacturer of All Terrain Vehicles now incorporates some sort of Constantly Variable Transmission and has been for many years. This ranges from 4-wheelers to snow mobiles and utility type vehicles such as the rangers and other variants. Even some tractors are utilizing this type of drive train. Is is Subaru's version that is lacking or is it just a general dislike for them as a whole?
 

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for 2013 i'd recommend a forester over either a legacy or outback. the OB comes with the CVT, not the best trans for off-road/beach/sand use. The Forester comes with 5MT and/turbo.
Among other reasons, I'd suggest a Fozzy over an outback for that generation (i.e. newest) Subarus.
Can't get a manual turbo Forester in the new model, or the outgoing one. In fact the new Forester turbos only come with a CVT now. The last gen turbo only came with the 4 speed auto. Subaru was out to sell cars, not make interesting ones.

And you're right, the CVT is NOT great in sand, at least not in the 2011 Outback 2.5i when left to do its own thing. I've driven a good chunk in sand, and leaving it in fully auto mode is not advisable. In full auto when you let off the gas it slips the ratio to a more fuel economy friendly one, then the car bogs down in deep sand. Keep it in "manual" and shift with the paddles to keep the rpms high and the car moving. Lock the ratio in "1" and let 'er rip. Not a problem, really.
 
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