[crabjoe]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/orysh1VuueU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What do you think?

 

[Tom28]

What do you think?

Pretty cool. Can they put it up against something with Quattro for grins and giggles?

 

[there4igraham]

Did anybody else notice how much the Venza's tailpipe flops around?

Good on Toyota for figuring out AWD. Now if they can just make something better than the Venza.

 

[dboz]

I figure the small differences are probably the tires.

 

[statueim]

What do you think?

Looks like a test of stock tire traction on ice rather than a true comparison of AWD systems.

 

[bajanut]

or at least get the MPG closer. Simularly speced Vinza vs outback with AWD, outback wins hands down.

 

[Se7enLC]

I'm confused...

They started by referencing the ramp video, and decided to do real world tests....on flat ground?

Apparently hills don't exist in the real world.

Also, it's kind of suspect:

Unbiased Research. Certified Proof.

For 30 years AMCI Testing has been an unbiased, independent vehicle testing company, directly serving automotive manufacturers worldwide. Whenever a balanced and unprejudiced understanding of their own vehicles' comparative performance is needed for product development, market intelligence or claim substantiation, most come to us. The oft proven, undisputed and unrivaled accuracy of AMCI Testing Certified data has fairly and defensibly substantiated hundreds and hundreds of competitive claims in television and print over the years.

AMCI Testing's presence on YouTube is brand new. When explicitly requested by our clients, this page will give you an opportunity to catch a glimpse of recent work. .

But they've only posted videos of the Toyota Venza. I'm going to guess this ends up in a Toyota Venza commercial, soon!

Also, Also: Is speed really what you want to compare when looking at ice traction? I'd think "makes it" vs "doesn't make it" would be a big one, and "maintains control" vs 'loses control". Both vehicles did fine in the flat ice test. The difference in speed seems irrelevant.

 

[subiesailor]

Tire traction test on flat surface nothing ground breaking about it. Venza has higher quality tires it should have the edge here regardless of awd system

 

[Novablue]

Toyota has been trying really hard to make it seem as though the OB and the Venza are the same car only the Venza looks better...

I agree about the tires making all the difference, infact they acknowledge that in the test. Put the same tires on these cars and you can better measure the AWD system, but that is not what this test was about. It's about how does the "package" performs, meaning the tires that are on the car and the AWD system.

Inspite of what many say here the stock tires on the OB suck, especially on ice. I would be surprised if the Toyota tires are much better though.

As many on this site have said over and over on these threads: Most drivers will never reach the limits of the AWD system in these cars.

Personally, it looks like Toyota funded this study. What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

 

[mikelipke]

What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

Same reason Ford competes with Mercury, Buick with Chev, and Hyundai with Kia. Brand identity and image is a fierce business.

 

[statueim]

What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

100% of profits are better than 20% of profits. Also, they might be doing a little self-competition to make the risks higher for others who might contemplate competing in the niche AWD wagon market (any profits are better than none).

 

[Novablue]

Also, they might be doing a little self-competition to make the risks higher for others who might contemplate competing in the niche AWD wagon market (any profits are better than none).

That makes more sense actually.

The rest of the answers are not lost on me people.

 

[dboz]

Real world would be taking both off road on hills and mudpits. Taking off on ice is easily accomplished with tires.

 

[imwjl]

What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

I've read that the Outback sales have been good over time and increasing with the current generation. The Outback has been a hot seller in my market area. I'm not sure of the same with Venza. It seems like good business try for a hot seller.

Also, Toyota owns a percentage of the Subaru parent company - not Subaru being a sibling division of same company.

 

[mcbrew]

Maybe it's just my impression... But it seems to me that the Venza is a wagon with optional AWD... Kinda like the Matrix. I wonder how many of them are actually AWD? I doubt your average person even realizes they make an AWD Venza.

 

[Jake2c]

Wonder if they had VDC on or off. On ice is one of the few times Subaru recommends VDC off. I noticed the Venza's wheels were spinning quicker on most of the runs. They should do real world, not just the addition of hills but how about adding 12" of snow. Would like to have seen those comparisons.

 

[dboz]

I would LOVE to see a Venza do any of these REAL WORLD tests. Not an OB but I have been researching the XV.

 

[Georgeh]

I actually think this test is more "real world" than many of the other tests I've seen. The roller tests in particular seem very suspect to me.

After all, one thing most owners of AWD cars expect them to do is get them home from the store after a snow or ice storm. Launching with all four tires on an icy flat surface is one of the more basic tests one could do.

I'm not all that surprised by the results. With no limited slip differentials at either axle, it's all down to the software, at least for launches. Looks like the algorithms have been figured out.

Having said that, it would be interesting to see how stable the two cars are at speed (say, 35 mph) in a corner on a hill. Particularly, when the surface changes from wet to packed snow mid-corner. Now that's a real-world test. Theoretically, Subaru's more even torque split and "always on" AWD should give better stability (less likely to drift off-line) than a system that is FWD by default. But then again, it probably depends on how fast the software intervenes.

I'd also like to see the test in the video done with a OB with a limited slip rear diff, but I don't think Subaru sells cars like that any more.

Finally, agreed with all the comments on the tires.

 

[rasterman]

The Toyota may have come with better tires- but that's part of the point. They aren't comparing idealized examples of these cars, they are comparing what the dealers are actually selling for advertised prices. I'm sure these results could have been skewed in either direction if they had used cars optimized by their owners with different tires, loads, traction control settings & driving styles.


I'm impressed that Toyota has caught up on this front. I still hate the name "venza" though, sounds like a cheesy 90s condo development.

 

[hiker74]

I think this proves that all AWD vehicle makers should follow suit instead of making gimick AWD systems like most of the bozos out there. For safety's sake I applaud them and I think that the fact of AMCI not declaring a real winner even though it does appear that Toyota paid for it. Other safer vehicles on the road makes it safer for everyone. We gave the Venza a really hard look, but we wanted good MPG and the V6 and 4 Cyl Venza cars had really poor mpg