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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
@mjohnson My car is in the shop and the transmission is being replaced so I can not record the sound.

@cardoc Why do you think I should believe an indie shop would know more than a mechanic that deals with Subarus and only Subarus all day, everyday? Statistically, that makes very little sense. What incentives would make an indie shop operate with more integrity and greater knowledge than a dealer that doesn't really need my business? There are ALOT of Subarus where I live so they are more than busy and I often have to book an appointment a week ahead of time just to get my car looked at...they actually recommended that I go ELSEWHERE several months ago for simple things like replacing my battery, tail lights etc

You seem overly emotional about this when I'm the one that will be out several thousand dollars (NOT YOU!) I have not come to any conclusion about the CVT. I was told by the Subaru mechanics that it needs to be replaced and they've seen this problem before. The mechanics are trained by Subaru and represent Subaru. I'm driving a Subaru. I called Subaru about the issue and they have offered some assistance but the fact remains that I will have to pay several thousand dollars to replace a transmission after only 104k miles.
 

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01 VDC, 05 R Sedan, 06 BAJA EJ257
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You can't hardly turn your head in this city without seeing a Subaru. My neighborhood alone is now about 50% Subies. (5 are at my house 馃榿)

You'd be surprised how much the techs know and don't know. I communicate with techs at both Subaru dealers here when they have questions, or they're stumped.

There is no "Factory Training". You think a factory rep is going to visit dealers, or is assigned to a dealer for tech training? No. It's either from a school or OTJ. And when it's either it depends on who is teaching. Ignorance teaches ignorance. The main instructor at ACC automotive is an example. He teaches electrical diag all wrong because he really doesn't understand electricity or modern CAN systems. He's been teaching there since the 90s and he's out of touch and poorly educated in modern computer controlled systems. So he teaches the students incorrectly. They end up in a shop at a dealership or an indie and end up relearning everything as long as they aren't hard headed.

An indie shop has more to lose over a dealership when it comes to customer retention. The dealer could really care less, except when you point out to a 100k people on a forum that their service department is screwing people over, or trying to, then you get phone calls and whining. I'm not saying an indie will not try to do the same, I've seen that as well. This is where you have to put in the effort to find the shop that is genuine.

It is your money. If you weren't concerned about the cost then why did you bring up the cost?

Lots of people get on here and want to blame Subaru for things and it ends up being something the owner did, or neglected to do; ignored a problem or noise thinking it'll "go away"; blame manufacturing and design when a dealer SM says a major part has failed and the whole time it's BS from the SM. Or, a part that wears out normally has to be replaced and the owner believes it should last longer.

You came in here to either bash Subaru, or to get feedback on the issue. You should have gone to another shop for another opinion. Like was posted by more than just me.

It's your car. It's your money. When you get on here to raise questions or concerns about anything, expect some honest feedback. And as a lot of people on this forum, some of whom are also my customers will tell you, I don't hold punches and I tell it like it is, backing it up with some evidence and/or examples.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
@cardoc I raised this issue because

1) I'm disappointed that my transmission failed at 104k miles (I think anyone would be disappointed).
2) I'm disappointed that Subaru won't cover the cost of the transmission despite the fact that I brought my car in at 99k to be inspected by the dealer.
3) I'm disappointed that Subaru didn't make it part of their inspection process to check transmissions despite a high enough number of these transmissions failing that they extended the warranty.

You seem to think I have no right to be disappointed and that I am out of bounds to expect a car to run beyond 104k miles if I've done all the recommended maintenance. You're asking me to spend a lot of time AND extra money to get multiple opinions. Time is money. If I've done what I'm asked to maintain a car, I expect it to work.
 

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2010 Outback 2.5
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@maywoo My personal experience at Subaru dealerships has not been great. I had the same thought as you during one of my last issues that came up. 鈥淪ubaru dealers work on subarus all day so they must know what they are doing鈥. I was wrong.

They may work on tons of Subarus all day but they could care less about you because they have another Subaru just like yours coming in right after you leave. You either pay them or you don鈥檛, they don鈥檛 care. They don鈥檛 take them time to go over every inch of your car like some trusted mechanics will.

Especially on an older Subaru, then they could really care less. I have a 2010 with 186k miles and I won鈥檛 bring it to another dealer after my last experience.
 

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@maywoo OK. Good luck with that, I do hope their diagnosis was right however they came to that conclusion.

As for your many comments about the dealership being experts in cars, I disagree and very much agree with @cardoc . I had a nagging issue 2 summers ago, momentarily engine power loss. You can read about it here (P035x code). In summary, a few visits at thendealership and since they couldn't figure it out, their solution was a new engine harness at more than $2,000 installed.
I fixed it with alcohol, a q-tip and compressed air. Dirty main harness connector. So their fix would likely have repaired it simply by re-establishing contacts but at a huge cost.
I did tell them how I fixed it and they were quite embarrassed and dumbfounded.

Oh, and this is not a fluke, a couple others on here had the same code and I told them what worked for me, they also reported back their cars haven't driven that well in months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
@mjohnson Thank you. While I understand that everyone is human and even mechanics who repair Subarus all day, everyday can make mistakes...statistically, my odds are going to be better with them than a random indy mechanic that I have no experience with and no ability to evaluate since I am NOT a mechanic. I neither have the time nor the inclination to diagnose the problems in my car. Again, that's why I took it to the dealer - also, any repairs done by unauthorized mechanics wouldn't be guaranteed, which could further exacerbate my problems.

I was just venting my frustration and disappointment with Subaru corporate for the reasons I stated multiple times above. That's all. I'm surprised so many people took it personally
 

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2) I'm disappointed that Subaru won't cover the cost of the transmission despite the fact that I brought my car in at 99k to be inspected by the dealer.
A tip on this point - when you bring your vehicle in for an "inspection", the service advisor sees someone that isn't really in tune with their vehicle and an opportunity for writing a big estimate. Wouldn't one think that would result in them trying to find a problem with the transmission? Maybe, but they also know that if they make the bill TOO big on an "inspection" estimate the customer will take their vehicle for another evaluation.

A large percentage of issues can be found without even driving the vehicle, and those that require driving the vehicle generally require the customer to say "my vehicle is doing this under these circumstances" so they can go out and drive it to duplicate it. If you didn't mention the noise at the time of dropping the vehicle off for "inspection", they're likely not going to go looking for it.

3) I'm disappointed that Subaru didn't make it part of their inspection process to check transmissions despite a high enough number of these transmissions failing that they extended the warranty.
Every dealer seems to have their own "inspection" list. Shoot - mine apparently even has a machine that evaluates the alignment as you roll into the check-in bay. I'm not sure how that works, or if it's actually true as I've not experienced it.

After reading the post from @cardoc I'll be interested to hear if the new transmission fixes the issue for you...
 

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I can understand your train of thought. But that doesn't deter from reality. And I will not concede just because you want me to, or that you want somebody to agree on the engineering of these cars being crap. There are over 100k people on this forum along with untold numbers who just visit without registering and I will not contribute to false information that will misguide readers and cost owners time and money towards unneccesry repairs.

I got on this form because people were getting screwed over when it came to repairs on the cars. And there are people working in shops that are afraid of these cars because they don't understand simple mechanical engineering and electrical theory. Plus with the cylinders being opposed 180掳 that's like frightening to them for some reason. These are the easiest cars to maintain and repair. Period.

I will repeat that the transmission is not the problem. I don't care what the dealer service department is telling you. They are pulling strings. There is no way for the CVT mechanical pulley sytem to make a humming noise that changes with the speed of the car. The input and output shafts of the CVT system, or any other automatic transmission, is constantly changing regardless of the speed of the car based on the gear ratio that the computer is setting the vehicle to run. The engine speed changes with your accelerator input. The torque converter slips for the first 16 mph that the car is moving and then it locks up. Any issues with the torque converter will be known within the first 16 mph. The lock up makes the input shaft of the CVT turn at the exact same speed as the engine. The output shaft changes speed based on what the gear ratio is set for as the car accelerates. The output shaft speed sends torque to the front and rear wheels disproportionately through the center differential, more so the front, and the rear wheels are gradually engaged more and more as the car speeds up. So this means that the shaft going to the front differential turns faster than the shaft going to the rear wheels until the center differential is equalizing the torque split between the front and rear wheels. At the same time you have the gear ratio variation between the shaft running the front and rear differential and the output shafts that actually go to the wheel. If your rotational noise, humming, starts out with the car rolling and increases at a gradual rate and sound that corresponds with the speed of the vehicle it is not the CVT causing the noise. It's impossible. And I understand that you're not a technician, or a mechanic, or someone who does their own repairs and maintenance at home. But I am here to tell you because you got on this form and started this thread that the CVT is not making a humming noise as you described and that it is somewhere else on the car.

I don't know who you talked to at SOA, but they have covered cost, or part of the cost, on replacement parts and repairs on cars with more mileage than yours. Maybe you got a newbie rep. Maybe you got somebody on a bad day. Maybe you got somebody who just flat out said no. I don't know. Maybe you got somebody who knows the dealership is full of **** and they are not going to agree to cover cost towards an unnecessary repair.

Finally, Subaru has made inspection of the CVT part of their protocol. It is spelled out in their maintenance program with a whole bunch of other items on the maintenance schedule. You keep going back to Subaru as a company when the whole time it is the dealership personnel who is, and has been, disregarding Subaru's maintenance schedule, TSBs and guidelines. Stop blaming Subaru for the individual faults of the people at your dealership service center. Subaru is not at fault. They take their cars very seriously and is one of the only car manufacturers in the world that really stand behind their product.

@hallux
Maybe I should take more time to post up the ridiculousness that comes from dealerahips, but I can't. There's not enough time in the day. It would not surprise me that they know it's a wheel bearing and are selling a CVT. To remove a CVT you have to remove the front axles. It's only a few more bolts pkus the part to swap a bearing assembly and the noise is gone when the car is given back. I've seen all kinds of BS in shops. That's why I do what I do now.

And as a reminder, that XT I mentioned in the thread about dealer services, the owner went in because the engine was leaking oil and leaving spots on his driveway. The service department wanted to pull the engine and change the head gaskets on a turbo motor because they said the head gaskets were leaking oil. I'm pretty sure if he had agreed to that $5,000 repair that he would have gotten the engine back without an oil leak because in doing the head gaskets they would have changed the gaskets that were actually leaking; the valve covers.
 

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@cardoc I'm in agreement with you. I posted elsewhere about the findings I had in the airbox of my dad's 2014 after he'd been to our dealer for an oil change and they showed him "his" air filter. The dirty side was packed with housing insulation the very next day, he doesn't believe the filter they showed him had any stuck to it and I'm fairly certain they would have advised of that situation and strongly encouraged that it be cleaned out before driving again. They have otherwise been pretty good to us though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
@cardoc Based on the number of words you've written to defend Subaru, I'm assuming that you work for Subaru? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me by letting someone there know! I would be truly grateful!

If they've indeed covered the replacement cost for transmissions with more miles than mine, then I'm now doubly frustrated and disappointed by the fact that they won't cover mine.
 

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@maywoo there is an easy way to see if what @cardoc thinks may happen (them changing a hub with the transmission work): pry off that plastic center cap on your wheels. You will see the axle nut and the metal around that is the wheel hub. That part should be dirty or rusty from aging. If it is bright clean metal, then they put in a hub to quiet the hum.

if you see this, then things get interesting for you!
 

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Mine will also be the last one. The CVT is very disappointing from my bought 2 months ago. My dad is a fan of subaru thats why I got an outback from a truck. Very disappointing about the trans and it did overheat times during the last 2 months. I don't know how long will it last but I have saw way too many cases after 50k miles so I'll definitely sell it before that. Subarus are losing mind for the CVT or maybe I'm not the target customer of subaru who doesn't care of a weak trans.
 

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@Joooyay your comment in another thread about thinking the vehicle was tougher and "can be used like a truck" indicates you may be mis-using the vehicle.

I know of quite a few that lasted past 100k miles, but it also helps to tell people what year vehicle you're talking about as changes have been made to the design over the years.
 

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@cardoc Based on the number of words you've written to defend Subaru, I'm assuming that you work for Subaru? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me by letting someone there know! I would be truly grateful!

If they've indeed covered the replacement cost for transmissions with more miles than mine, then I'm now doubly frustrated and disappointed by the fact that they won't cover mine.
I do not work for Subaru. Never have. I've owned quite a few over the years and have a one of a kind in my garage that as far as I know no one's replicated. I have my own shop in Austin, Tx and I stay busy all day, every day with Subarus, Bimmers, Audi/VW/Porsche, MB, Ferrari, the occasional Lamborghini and even the shite Ford/Mazda which includes Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston. Once a year a Bentley rolls up. Anything from a Hyundai or Daewoo to any of $250k up cars. I've had my hands in a car for the last 36 years, kept up with innovations and computer systems. I constantly go through changes made by manufacturers and keep myself educated so I can find issues quick, easy and roll on to the next one. I am great with reverse engineering and I know how different systems are affected when one has an issue. My appointments are mostly at minimum 1 week out, sometimes longer. Many of my Subaru customers are on this forum. I diagnose, repair and even teach people how to "read" their cars. If someone is willing to do their own work, I give them the information they need to go through the steps themselves, whether it's engine performance or electrical, I print it out, post it up, or talk them through it over the phone.

Subaru has covered repair cost on a lot of things, not just the CVT. I've been able to get FB engine blocks changed out of a couple cars that were over the extended warranty, other FB engines, no. It all depends on who you deal with and what the situation is.

The CVT in your car is erroneously being replaced. That's just the plain and simple truth.
 

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Mine will also be the last one. The CVT is very disappointing from my bought 2 months ago. My dad is a fan of subaru thats why I got an outback from a truck. Very disappointing about the trans and it did overheat times during the last 2 months. I don't know how long will it last but I have saw way too many cases after 50k miles so I'll definitely sell it before that. Subarus are losing mind for the CVT or maybe I'm not the target customer of subaru who doesn't care of a weak trans.
What?
 

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@cardoc Based on the number of words you've written to defend Subaru, I'm assuming that you work for Subaru? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me by letting someone there know! I would be truly grateful!

<SNIP>
Unfortunately, the first sentence in your comment above pretty much reduced your credibility and position in this message thread to near the level of a YouTube troll. I would think that this wasn't your intent from your initial comment.

FYI... an interesting article was just posted on the Consumer Reports website regarding the cars most likely to experience transmission failures. This might put things in perspective - notice anything (i.e., car) missing from this list?

 

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Nissan CVT is trash. Ford CVTs likewise. Both go to trash at about 70-85k miles. The Ford CVT differential bearing fails and cuts a perfect circle in the separator plate and it dumps all the fluid. The Nissan CVT just can't handle anything over 50HP apparently. They put that unit behind 4 and 6 cylinders. Dumb.
 

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If you didn't ask for the CVT to be looked at, there is little reason for them to look at it. I assume you knew about the warranty coming to an end, and why it went in? It's what I did, to cover my ass/peace of mind. Dealer likely sees easy money, they'll super low-ball your car as a trade-in to flip it and they were likely hoping you'd get another one from the showroom. As Seagrass said, call SOA and I would bet they'll do you good. Failure just over the warranty period is very bad publicity.

Question: Have you had the CVT fluid and differential fluids changed?
I will add my two cents. My gf has a 2013 too. 68k. I have asked the dealer to change the fluid twice now. They said no that her cvt has a life time warranty and they wont change the fluid. They just inspect the amout of fluid. So I am thinking of trading or selling hers while it still runs like new if Subaru has this issue still going on.
 
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