[NC-Outback]

So while new to this thread have read similar threads on the BMW motorcycle sites. Honestly I have seen the OEM Sabaru filter for $10 or less on-line and I plan on changing the oil and filter regularly at less than the recommended 6K miles ... will probably do around 5k. For me it is cheap insurance. The vehicle we replaced with our '21 Outback Limited XT is a '99 Ford Explorer with 243,000 miles and running like a champ with never an engine issue. It should run for another 100K or more. I changed the oil and filter every 2500 miles with Motorcraft FL-1A filter and Castrol Syn Blend oil for a total cost of about $22 for each oil change. I suspect I should be able to do the Outback change for about $35 for oil and filter. It just seems that simple to me but as always YMMV.

 

[rill]

If you are in the United States the Magnusson-Moss law allows you to use whatever oil filter you want.

I am aware of that, but somehow it seems like it would be worse, having a Mazda filter as opposed to one of the third party filters.
Either way, I'd rather not have to fight that battle...

I had entertained the idea of keeping a lightly used 15A filter in the back... just in case. 😳
Bottom line for me is that I'm changing the oil more often than required, so I'll just stick with stock. This will only be a 2-3 year car for me until I get a new one.

 

[rfuree11]

I’d be more worried about something kicking up from the road and taking out the Fumoto valve itself rather than the tiny amount that doesn’t make it to the spout.

Funny story- I had one on my 4Runner. I took it off roading and landed directly on the fumoto valve (crushed my factory skid plate too). I crushed the oil pan but the valve didn’t leak a drop.

 

[rill]

"Professional driver, do not attempt " 🤣🤣

 

[SilverOnyx]

Back to oil filter drama - that diesel cut up oil filter thread was an interesting read but the more I think of it, it is suspicious how so many filters had unusual damage like the split drainback valve just a clean almost razor cut. Not saying he did it, but very odd failure mode for a part like that. I could see it being malformed, or in some cases I've seen it be partially cut but never seen a clean split like that. Stranger things happen in real life but skepticism is healthy. Never seen that particular failure ever in any filter cut open before.

The Bitog guy who is doing filter testing seems promising and I was hoping for the holy grail but somehow his website seems sketchy and I don't understand why it's taking him so long to "edit" a video instead of just releasing the results. When we get the results I will take them with a grain of salt like anything else.

Filter Testing

Liquid filter testing

www.ascentfiltrationtesting.com

I'm not an internet sleuth so I don't know what to make of it but his domain name registration seems to be obfuscated. Is this normal these days?

ICANN Lookup and enter

www.ascentfiltrationtesting.com

Edit: He released the video along with contact information so he's not hiding himself and I retract insinuations that it's shady. Looks legit based on the youtube video.

 

[xwizkidx]

Back to oil filter drama - that diesel cut up oil filter thread was an interesting read but the more I think of it, it is suspicious how so many filters had unusual damage like the split drainback valve just a clean almost razor cut. Not saying he did it, but very odd failure mode for a part like that. I could see it being malformed, or in some cases I've seen it be partially cut but never seen a clean split like that. Stranger things happen in real life but skepticism is healthy. Never seen that particular failure ever in any filter cut open before.

The Bitog guy who is doing filter testing seems promising and I was hoping for the holy grail but somehow his website seems sketchy and I don't understand why it's taking him so long to "edit" a video instead of just releasing the results. When we get the results I will take them with a grain of salt like anything else.

Filter Testing

Liquid filter testing

www.ascentfiltrationtesting.com

Well thanks all for opening my eyes some more on these things. Its nice to get some educated responses on these topics. I myself still run frams on my 97 nissan altima too with over 200k no ill effects. I thought it was more so nice with that duramax thread to see all the insides of the filters. Im getting oil filters at cost from a friend at bumper to bumper so im just hoping to get a stock in a good design and stick with it.

 

[SilverOnyx]

Well I'm relieved that you're not the actual Duramax filter guy! Ultimately we're all seeking the same thing but it sure is elusive to get good facts from trusted sources. A long time ago there was someone who did micron testing of a bunch of filters but for some reason the data seems missing now and even if it were there, the testing was done so long ago that you can't draw conclusions about current filters, as various manufacturers have been taken over by new management.

Engine Oil Filter Study

When Purolator was taken over by M+H (2011?) there was a noticeable drop in quality. The original Bitog post was deleted apparently but someone else copy and pasted a post from a guy claiming to have worked for Purolator and witnessed the decline: Insider background on filter tearing at Purolator - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Purolator went from being one of the highest regarded filter brands to being among the most mocked and despised. Mann+Hummel itself is a highly respected company. Since then, there continue to be questions about Purolator quality, but in a way similar to Fram Ultra, their top of the line Boss hasn't seemed to suffer from the same poor quality problems like torn pleats.

Wix more recently was also acquired by M+H in 2016 but there haven't been widespread reports of Wix quality plummeting since then.

 

[xwizkidx]

Well I'm relieved that you're not the actual Duramax filter guy! Ultimately we're all seeking the same thing but it sure is elusive to get good facts from trusted sources. A long time ago there was someone who did micron testing of a bunch of filters but for some reason the data seems missing now and even if it were there, the testing was done so long ago that you can't draw conclusions about current filters, as various manufacturers have been taken over by new management.

Engine Oil Filter Study

When Purolator was taken over by M+H (2011?) there was a noticeable drop in quality. The original Bitog post was deleted apparently but someone else copy and pasted a post from a guy claiming to have worked for Purolator and witnessed the decline: Insider background on filter tearing at Purolator - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Purolator went from being one of the highest regarded filter brands to being among the most mocked and despised. Mann+Hummel itself is a highly respected company. Since then, there continue to be questions about Purolator quality, but in a way similar to Fram Ultra, their top of the line Boss hasn't seemed to suffer from the same poor quality problems like torn pleats.

Wix more recently was also acquired by M+H in 2016 but there haven't been widespread reports of Wix quality plummeting since then.

Yea def not the filter guy just another duramax owner lol I love all this info you guys dig up! Really informative.

 

[rill]

Holy smokes... this is now BITOG. ☹

 

[GeoffD]

I don't discourage anyone from using the OEM oil filter, so long as they don't go much beyond 6000 miles on one.

This is the key point. If you're changing the oil on a 2.4 turbo frequently, the quality of the filter isn't important. A car with a 10,000 mile oil change interval needs a much better filter than a car where you're changing the oil at 3,000 to try to avoid carbon build-up on a direct injection turbo. I used to have a 2007 VW GTI where you had to treat it like that. Fancy German full synthetic that met the VW/Audi 504.00 spec and every 3,000. The filter? Who cares.

Subaru also has the gasoline contamination of the oil eating the head gaskets issue. The NA 2.0 and 2.5 engines have an unusually short oil change interval by modern standards since synthetic should go 10,000 unless you're doing something like lots of winter cold starts without getting some minutes at operating temperature before shutting it down.

 

[MySubieOutback]

Hey all, I am sure that this has been asked a few times before, and I scrolled back a number of pages, and still cant find info. What is needed to change the oil in my 2020 Outback Onyx XT. Meaning what is the capacity of oil, do I need to replace the drain plug washer?

 

[Pilot1226]

You should replace the crush washer every time you crack the drain plug, so yes, every oil change. I’m sure there are several posts of users that have used them again in a pinch, but the official service manual says to use a new one.

Last I purchased the filters from the dealer, they came with the washer anyway.

Oil capacity should be found on your specifications page near the end of the manual.

 

[MySubieOutback]

You should replace the crush washer every time you crack the drain plug, so yes, every oil change. I’m sure there are several posts of users that have used them again in a pinch, but the official service manual says to use a new one.

Last I purchased the filters from the dealer, they came with the washer anyway.

Oil capacity should be found on your specifications page near the end of the manual.

Thank you so much for the info! Will do as you recommended with the crush washer.

 

[Pilot1226]

@rfuree11 ; - that’s incredible that the valve stayed intact! My concern is more of a debris hitting while in forward motion, like a shearing force type of effect instead of a downward force that seems to have transferred to the Pan itself.

Like, a tire tread or something kicked up on the highway.

Perhaps wilderness edition solves this with its 12” of ground clearance. Lol.

@GeoffD ; - the boxer design itself is inherently more susceptible to problems with fuel and oil dilution because the bottom portions of each cylinder are always saturated, I’m thinking? Which is why it’s not as big of an issue in inline and V?

@MySubieOutback ; happy to help. This is a great community. I updated my previous post with a screenshot from my manual. You can grab the manuals digitally at the Subaru website - I keep them in my iCloud.

Edit - That's weird, Tapatalk doesn't like to hotlink the mentions... Hmm...

 

[rfuree11]

@rfuree11 ; - that’s incredible that the valve stayed intact! My concern is more of a debris hitting while in forward motion, like a shearing force type of effect instead of a downward force that seems to have transferred to the Pan itself.

Yeah, I get that. The way it’s mounted, it’s almost behind the oil pan if that makes sense. The one on the 4Runner is vertical, the outback is more diagonal and mounted at the rear. Between the crossmember and how high up it is, I’m not worried about it at all.

 

[SilverOnyx]

The image below is misleading because it's shot facing up somewhat, but as you can see the SX model can be "clocked" so if you wanted to mount it more tucked in, you could rotate the spigot end to face towards the back of the car. It doesn't hang below the car even in the position depicted here.

 

[Pilot1226]

Thanks for the picture.

I suppose this is also on the same general topic as the oil thread, and quasi related: are any of you planning to do preventative type maintenance with direct injection, meaning the carbon clean or upper engine cleaner product every 12 months or some other interval?

Thinking an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - just like the more aggressive OCI’s.

 

[bluesubie2]

Thanks for the picture.

I suppose this is also on the same general topic as the oil thread, and quasi related: are any of you planning to do preventative type maintenance with direct injection, meaning the carbon clean or upper engine cleaner product every 12 months or some other interval?

Thinking an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - just like the more aggressive OCI’s.

I'm not planning on it currently. I know that walnut blasting has become pretty popular in the WRX crowd, but unless I'm having having issues (CEL) I'm not going to have walnut blasting performed. That's really the only thing that will work on IVD*. I get a chuckle when I see valve pics of a WRX with IVD because it's nowhere nothing like IVD in a VAG product.

There actually have been cases of FXT's had WRX's getting a check engine light from deposits, but I think those cases are pretty rare.

*Edit: I do seem to recall that the BG intake valve cleaning process might be a bit different than your standard upper engine cleaner and is supposed to be more effective.

 

[rfuree11]

Thanks for the picture.

I suppose this is also on the same general topic as the oil thread, and quasi related: are any of you planning to do preventative type maintenance with direct injection, meaning the carbon clean or upper engine cleaner product every 12 months or some other interval?

Thinking an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - just like the more aggressive OCI’s.

I’ll probably scope it at 50-60k and see what it looks like before I make a decision. I’m using good oil and gas so I’m hoping that will help prevent it.

 

[SilverOnyx]

Looking at the way things are mounted on the engine it appears that the intake manifold is designed to be easier to remove than older models, perhaps to make walnut blasting easier to perform if necessary.

There was an interesting graph I saw on the site I shouldn't name that showed various kinds of base oil and how old vs new oil left deposits.