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SubaruOutback.org Founder
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For those that like pictures:


Thank you, if I am posting anything inaccurate please feel free to correct me.

The big reason why I have been using and endorsing Valvoline over the past year is because they are producing oil that addresses what so many, to include myself, commonly express concern about on this site and others like BITOG and at a price point equal or lower than most commonly available comparable products. Not only that but I have looked over several oil analysis reports from people who have used it in Subaru engines as well as common direct injection engines, all with good results.

For example Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5w20 (yes you can use this in an engine requiring 0w20 like Subaru does) has ultra low NOACK and VII values, literally among the lowest you will find even compared to the ultra premium boutique oils that are three times the price. It is not a magic cure for carbon deposits and oil consumption but I am of the opinion that it is the best for the price of what is currently available.
 

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Oh great. You just ruined my belief. I thought there was unicorn dust in their oil. What are you going to tell me next? Santa's not real?
Brace yourself for it.... Pro wrestling is fake. :)

I used to drive VW turbos back around 2000 when it was hard to find oil for European spec high compression engines. The only place that made true full synthetic that met the spec was Germany. You couldn't find VW 504.00 oil in Walmart. Some auto parts stores had a Castrol or Valvoline that said "made in Germany" that met the spec. By 2005, you could buy jugs of Mobil 1 at Wally-World that had 504.00 and the corresponding Mercedes and BMW spec numbers.

As long as it meets the spec, I think oil branding is mostly snake oil assuming you change the oil when you're supposed to.
 

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Even on "short trips" an aircraft engine probably runs hot enough long enough, right? The problem with automobiles is that short trips are devastating to the oil, and the moisture in the oil isn't simply water - it can form acids. Then we add GDI fuel dilution as yet another factor for a double whammy.


The vast amounts of water that come out of a tailpipe aren't from humidity - it's from the fact that hydrocarbons + oxygen (combustion) = H2O + CO2. The amount of water produced by combustion is greater than the amount of gasoline combusted. While the majority of water goes out the exhaust, blow-by gasses that enter the crankcase have a ton of water vapor - which is why unheated catch cans can accumulate water.


The problem of moisture in oil is so real that it's usually recommended to change your oil prior to winter storage - even though it's not accumulating miles, the used oil can continue to damage the engine if there's moisture in it.

So changing the oil every 6 months irrespective of hours of runtime is still a sensible thing to do, unless the car wasn't run at all.
Yes, you’re bang on. I was in the aviation industry for a long time, most of it running an aircraft maintenance business.

Hobbs meters, are just that, meters. They are used in all sorts of industries. They are no different than an odometer counting the miles, they just do it for time.
some are set to start running from start up, some by oil pressure, some by electrical use... etc etc etc.
They are used quite frequently by rental and leasing companies on just about anything to count the actual hours of something in operation, so the renter/lessor can not lie about it. Those are usually hidden very well.

Hobbs is not a process or program. It’s just a brand name, such as Kleenex. There are a lot of manufacturers that make hour meters.

Maintenance in aviation is highly regulated, but in the end the basis of it is not that different from auto, heavy equipment, or any other type of equipment. That is to say they are all fairly similar. They all have their specific needs and requirements, dependant on the machines requirements and operational requirements. Aircraft are typically maintained by hourly usage, cycles, and calendar items. Auto is typically mileage, some items by date. Some items are on condition, same as auto, or any other industrial equipment.

As in auto, most commercial operated aircraft have their own specific maintenance schedules geared towards, and approved by the regulatory authority of their respective country of operation, their typical usage. Some use the manufacturers Mtce schedule. They can vary from operator to operator.
getting to my point: No different than auto, the maintenance schedule will be different form operator to operator.

Drive times, moisture buildup, usage and temps... it will all make a difference to the maintenance required and intervals.
And you’re absolutely correct about the moisture in the oil. Bad idea to run an engine for 10 minutes, shut it down for long term. All you did was put moisture in the oils, cylinder walls, bearings, etc etc etc etc etc. Get it good and hot before you park it. Even if you did an oil change, run it to operational temps before you park it. Get all that moisture burnt off. A quick drive around the block won’t do it. Too lengthy of a discussion for this, google it.

As for the oil debates....
This is my humble and learned opinion:

A Bad operator with poor maintenance habits using the best oil will wreck a machine faster than you can imagine.

A Good operator with lower quality oil can and good maintenance program will go a long, long time.
 

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As long as it meets the spec, I think oil branding is mostly snake oil assuming you change the oil when you're supposed to.
It doesn't make sense to me that some people buy super expensive oil and then extend drain intervals to justify the cost. It does make sense to buy a high quality oil AND change the fluid when you're supposed to.

Almost all marketing/branding/advertising is pure manipulation, whether it's car related, or a pharmaceutical. That doesn't mean there isn't a difference between products. Sometimes the better product won't survive because an inferior competitor is better marketed. The use of the term "Synthetic" is useful, but there are different base stocks called "Synthetic" and not all of them perform the same under heavy shear, load, and high temperatures (probably not an issue for normal driving and if you change oil often). Marketing buzz words give the impression of quality and the use of them doesn't mean an oil is bad, but it doesn't mean it's good. "Magnatec" "Titanium" "Advanced" "Ultra" or what have you.

When it comes to GDI, there are new demands on the oil that the specs haven't kept up with, which is why recently SN-Plus and Dexos 1 Gen 2 came out, and GF-6 is coming this May. GF-6 addresses GDI soot causing wear and elongation of timing chains, and LSPI among other things, but (please someone tell me I'm wrong) it does NOT have a test for intake valve deposits on a direct injected engine, which is why Noack and VII were raised as something to look at when comparing between oils. Sometimes the better oil is cheaper but marketing words won't lead you in that direction. It's like being able to read food labels in making choices. The word "healthy" means nothing - gotta read the fine print/ingredients. Even among inexpensive oils, some are better than others.

Some oils fail to meet basic tests (green only means it's not absolute junk):


Another caveat is that although API certifies oils, some oils (weird off-brands) use the certification marks without authorization:

 

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AND, as an added bonus.....

The aisle with the oil will be near empty & easy to access because everyone is brawling over in the toilet paper & hand sanitizer aisles!
When I have been in it has been the water.

What do people think is going to happen to the water?
 

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Concern over water utilities shutting down over sickness among workers. This makes far more sense than the toilet paper hoarding.
I mean, I can see this at a point, but I guess just WAY further down the road in my opinion.
But yeah - the toilet paper hoarding is weird too.
I dont know if anyone has checked Ebay but if you look at toilet paper and actual SOLD items - many people selling toilet paper for THOUSANDS of dollars on there. just crazy.
(top auction on page has to be a joke, but scroll down. all the green prices are SOLD auctions)

We are all stocked with tons of water because of regular earthquake preparedness.
Also, a great backpacking purifier if need be.
Surprised how many here dont have water supplies already for that.
 

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I wanted to post an update to say that I am starting to sour on SOPUS products (or at least on Pennzoil) after having 3 rebates denied for Pennzoil products so far in 2020. I have seen a lot of other people complaining over at BITOG about similar denials and frankly this would not be my first time having difficulty with Shell fulfilling its end of a promotion. I got four $10 rebates on Rotella Gas Truck oil last year without any issues and all were received very quickly, perhaps things have changed in the new year.
I wanted to post an update to say that I received a $10 rebate check from Pennzoil today. A surprise to be certain but a welcome one. We'll see if they fulfill the other two now...
 

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How do you guys feel about pennzoil ultra platinum? Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
It is perfectly fine, I know it is packed with cleaning agents. I thought it was being phased out though because it was being sold at a boutique oil price and it did not seem like sales has been going well since its inception. It is not a bad product, it was just being sold at too high of a price point for frankly being Pennzoil Platinum with more detergents.

I would not pay more for it than any of the other mainstream oils like Mobil 1, Castrol, Valvoline, etc.
 

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In my experienc PP and PUP are too thin in my application, unless they are either A5/B5 or A3/B3-4.

They are thin oils, at least in 30w, and from almost all of my UOAs, I lose around .8 cSt at the the change. PP 5w-30 is almost a 20w out of the bottle and for me, it would be a 20 without a doubt. I wish they'd make it with more headroom, although I do run it in a car that's speced for x-20.

My car does best when the native cSt is around 11 or higher.
 

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SubaruOutback.org Founder
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In my experienc PP and PUP are too thin in my application, unless they are either A5/B5 or A3/B3-4.

They are thin oils, at least in 30w, and from almost all of my UOAs, I lose around .8 cSt at the the change. PP 5w-30 is almost a 20w out of the bottle and for me, it would be a 20 without a doubt. I wish they'd make it with more headroom, although I do run it in a car that's speced for x-20.

My car does best when the native cSt is around 11 or higher.
I would rather use a Pennzoil Xw30 oil in an engine that calls for a 20 weight rather than one that calls for a 30 weight oil.

Pennzoil 10w30 conventional is actually a pretty remarkable oil for being a conventional but I am not impressed with the rest of what they offer.
 

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Any thoughts on Amazon Basics oil? I have seen a few youtubers out there recommending it. I wonder if any one here has used lt
It’s made by Warren Distribution so it’s decent oil and is literally the same as Costco’s Kirkland, Wal Mart’s SuperTech and dozens of others. They even all share the same dexos license number.
 

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Ok so hopefully do an oil change with valvoline modern engine and a purolator boss filter this weekend. Hoping it quiets down the engine a little. Especially at cold idle.
Your choice of the Purolator Boss filter made me curious so I looked it up:

PBL14615 20-30 psi bypass

Bitog Thread: Purolator Boss PBL14615 filter after 12,295 miles

Can you say more about this particular filter and why you chose it?
 
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