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I gave up the battery drama with dealerships (willful or incompetent?) falsely declaring weak batteries "good" and bought an Enersys/Odyssey group 47 (fingers crossed that they'll actually ship it).
 

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Reread this thread and others and want to add that the voltages we might be used to seeing don’t necessarily apply to the 20/21 Outback. It took over two hours of driving and sitting overnight (not on a charger), but I finally saw voltages that indicated a fully charged battery and it was exactly 12.0, not higher like we might normally expect. Trickle charge voltage from the alternator is consistently 14.1-14.2. Once fully charged the voltage dropped to 12.0 and sat there for a few minutes. Then it jumped up to a high charge of 14.8-14.9V, but that was only for a few seconds before it went back to 14.2, followed in less than a minute by dropping back down to 12.0. This is nearly identical to the voltages I see in my truck with an AGM, except its fully charged voltage is around 12.6 which I think is what more of us are used to seeing. I mention that I saw 12V fully charged after sitting overnight to stress there wasn’t any unusual drop overnight, which to me says a good electrical system with no unusual drain and a good battery that holds its charge, even though it’s only 12V and not something higher that we might be used to seeing on cars in the past.

My experience has also matched what others have reported in this thread, as low as 11.8V with the engine off due to start stop. After restarting I’ve only seen 14.2V, the trickle charge rate. The only times I’ve seen 14.8-14.9V is after the charging system was resting with the battery at 12.0V even, as if it jumps up to 14.8V to see if the battery needs a charge, determines it doesn’t, drops down to 14.1V momentarily, then back down to 12.0V.

Are there bad batteries out there? Certainly, but with the 20 I’d say Subaru has done a good job improving some of the deficiencies they may have had in older models. I was skeptical about using a lower cost enhanced flooded instead of a true AGM, but having seen firsthand performance that matches what I’m seeing in my other vehicle with an AGM, it seems Subaru has made a good, cost effective solution. Once I need a new battery after warranty I’ll still buy an AGM, and I’ll always carry a lithium jump starter under the front seat, but for now I’m fine with the battery and charging system as is. If I can get performance like this after 23K miles using start stop the whole time, then if you’re having a problem I’d say it’s the exception that needs a warranty battery replacement or other fix and press on.

BTW, all my voltage readings are taken directly from the car’s electrical system using the signal option in dealer mode. A difference of 0.1V is insignificant, thus 14.1-14.2 is the same thing as it falls within measurement error. I’d say seeing 12.0 vs 12.5 is a significant difference, but just because it’s different from what we might be used to with other cars and batteries doesn’t mean it’s bad or wrong. 12.0 on the 20 Outback is working for me so far, so I’m not going to mess with success. Eventually the battery will get old and need replacing, just like oil, brakes, CVT fluid, or any other consumable. Until then I’ll just keep enjoying the car.
 

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I gave up the battery drama with dealerships (willful or incompetent?) falsely declaring weak batteries "good" and bought an Enersys/Odyssey group 47 (fingers crossed that they'll actually ship it).
Nice choice!

It pains me to read about so many people having battery issues in relatively new cars. Sitting for a few days should not leave you needing a jump! Crazy, can't even go to the airport and leave it in long term....

Winter time, sometimes it's a month between drives in my Jeep. Always starts. Odyssey makes great quality batteries.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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I mention that I saw 12V fully charged after sitting overnight to stress there wasn’t any unusual drop overnight, which to me says a good electrical system with no unusual drain and a good battery that holds its charge, even though it’s only 12V and not something higher that we might be used to seeing on cars in the past.
<snip>
BTW, all my voltage readings are taken directly from the car’s electrical system using the signal option in dealer mode.
Are you saying that you fully charge your battery on an external charger, then after being off the charger overnight, see 12.0 volts the next day via the dealer mode display with the car on/engine off?

Using an external charger to fully charge the 620 EFB, I leave it overnight, open the door, pop the hood, get a reading (and the car is not on but it's awake) and was getting around 12.3 volts until I did a reconditioning cycle then I would get closer to 12.47 or something.

What bothers me is when my dealer claimed 12.68 volts then I drive 5 miles home and pop the hood an hour later and get 12.33. I will post the results of my AGM battery experiment and we shall see if an AGM performs the same way or not. It could be a complete waste of money but a worthy experiment and I'll faithfully report my findings.
 

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Ok I checked the website and apparently my order was cancelled without telling me (I logged on to the website to check my order status). Am awaiting follow-up for an explanation. Meanwhile Napa is showing the Enersys/Odyssey batteries now. So the battery experiment is on hold for now until I can figure out how to get one. None of my NAPA stores have it in stock locally so I'll have to contact them by phone to find out if I can get it without paying a hundred bucks for shipping.

 

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Are you saying that you fully charge your battery on an external charger, then after being off the charger overnight, see 12.0 volts the next day via the dealer mode display with the car on/engine off?

Using an external charger to fully charge the 620 EFB, I leave it overnight, open the door, pop the hood, get a reading (and the car is not on but it's awake) and was getting around 12.3 volts until I did a reconditioning cycle then I would get closer to 12.47 or something.

What bothers me is when my dealer claimed 12.68 volts then I drive 5 miles home and pop the hood an hour later and get 12.33. I will post the results of my AGM battery experiment and we shall see if an AGM performs the same way or not. It could be a complete waste of money but a worthy experiment and I'll faithfully report my findings.
No external charger. I drove it two hours showing 14.1-14.2V the whole time, parked it overnight, the next day saw 12.0V with the engine running via dealer mode. After a few minutes it went up to 14.8-14.9 momentarily, down to 14.1-14.2 for less than a minute, then back down to 12.0 for several minutes. To me that's a fully charged battery because it mirrors the charging pattern I see on my truck with an AGM, other than the absolute values being a few tenths different one way or the other. I have not done an independent multimeter check of the voltage and am taking the dash display at face value. Bottom line is I'm not having issues with our Subaru battery, and have seen off cycles using start stop for as long as 90 seconds. Works for me.

It's important to note this is different from the old Subaru charging cycle that would arbitrarily drop to 12V when the battery wasn't fully charged. It took 2+ hours of steady driving and constant charging at 14.1V before the voltage finally dropped to 12, which happened to be on the next day after sitting overnight. If there was some sort of dark current drain or battery deficiency, it certainly wouldn't still have had a full charge in the morning. Is 12.0V lower than we might be used to seeing from a fully charged battery? Perhaps, but it's working fine, and the 11.7-11.8 voltages I am seeing during start stop cycles matches what others have reported, so I can only conclude these are accurate numbers.
 

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Ok I checked the website and apparently my order was cancelled without telling me (I logged on to the website to check my order status). Am awaiting follow-up for an explanation. Meanwhile Napa is showing the Enersys/Odyssey batteries now. So the battery experiment is on hold for now until I can figure out how to get one. None of my NAPA stores have it in stock locally so I'll have to contact them by phone to find out if I can get it without paying a hundred bucks for shipping.

An impressive battery. It will be interestiing to see how it works out compared to the one I have my eye on at Autozone: Autozone AGM battery for Outback
 

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Discussion Starter #29
No external charger. I drove it two hours showing 14.1-14.2V the whole time, parked it overnight, the next day saw 12.0V with the engine running via dealer mode. After a few minutes it went up to 14.8-14.9 momentarily, down to 14.1-14.2 for less than a minute, then back down to 12.0 for several minutes. To me that's a fully charged battery because it mirrors the charging pattern I see on my truck with an AGM, other than the absolute values being a few tenths different one way or the other. I have not done an independent multimeter check of the voltage and am taking the dash display at face value. Bottom line is I'm not having issues with our Subaru battery, and have seen off cycles using start stop for as long as 90 seconds. Works for me.

It's important to note this is different from the old Subaru charging cycle that would arbitrarily drop to 12V when the battery wasn't fully charged. It took 2+ hours of steady driving and constant charging at 14.1V before the voltage finally dropped to 12, which happened to be on the next day after sitting overnight. If there was some sort of dark current drain or battery deficiency, it certainly wouldn't still have had a full charge in the morning. Is 12.0V lower than we might be used to seeing from a fully charged battery? Perhaps, but it's working fine, and the 11.7-11.8 voltages I am seeing during start stop cycles matches what others have reported, so I can only conclude these are accurate numbers.
How do I access this dealer mode so I can watch voltages when I get my car back
 

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How do I access this dealer mode so I can watch voltages when I get my car back
Hold the two passenger temperature buttons (blue and red arrows) down together and press the radio tune button above them six times fairly rapidly. Beware: there are a lot of things you can mess up in dealer mode, so if you're not sure about a setting in there don't mess with it. Dealer mode is what a bunch of us learned back in June when the first big software update came out; the software update screen is at the bottom of the menu. There is also a screen that gives more details on different subsets of software in the vehicle. The voltage is in the "signal" menu about halfway down. To return to normal, just hit the back button near the top left, then the home button that appears at the bottom of the display. Suggestion: you can access dealer mode in accessory, on without ignition, or on with engine running. If you're going to experiment I'd just sit in the driveway and try it with the engine off using accessory mode (hit the start button one time without pressing the brake pedal; yes, some people don't know how to get into accessory mode). Don't crash if you try dealer mode while driving; everything still works normally, you're just viewing a screen that is intended for diagnostics, not something you would normally be looking at while going down the road.

As an aside, if you ever have a more serious problem, your service manager can plug a laptop into the obd port and access all kinds of information while you're driving. My service manager did this from the passenger seat while I was driving my 19 trying to diagnose what felt like transmission slipping. The problem was actually the engine retarding the spark for pre-ignition, which he could easily see using the advanced diagnostics available through the laptop. Our cars really are a bunch of computers. Think of dealer mode as a sort of behind the scenes look into your car's computers, much like you would do with your laptop or phone if you're a tech geek.
 

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Using an external charger to fully charge the 620 EFB, I leave it overnight, open the door, pop the hood, get a reading (and the car is not on but it's awake) and was getting around 12.3 volts until I did a reconditioning cycle then I would get closer to 12.47 or something.
You may want to consider installing a SAE 2Pin Ring Terminal Battery Cord Tender Cable Harness Wire Plug Quick Connect. I have the Battery Tender version with extension to get access at the grill without waking anything. It could also be placed below the grill. This black connector is not easily seen unless you are looking for it. I can easily access the battery for voltage measurements or charging. The plug has a weather cover to keep it clean and dry. I use a little silicone grease to help keep the connection points hydrophobic/dry.
Grill Access.jpg Battery2.jpg
 

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You may want to consider installing a SAE 2Pin Ring Terminal Battery Cord Tender Cable Harness Wire Plug Quick Connect. I have the Battery Tender version with extension to get access at the grill without waking anything. It could also be placed below the grill. This black connector is not easily seen unless you are looking for it. I can easily access the battery for voltage measurements or charging. The plug has a weather cover to keep it clean and dry. I use a little silicone grease to help keep the connection points hydrophobic/dry.
View attachment 501115 View attachment 501116
If I have to battery tend my vehicle every night, I’m not going to be happy and will let my battery die every night and start having it towed to the dealer every morning on their dime and have them jump start it.
 

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If I have to battery tend my vehicle every night, I’m not going to be happy and will let my battery die every night and start having it towed to the dealer every morning on their dime and have them jump start it.
[/QU
The suggestion was directed to SilverOnyx and was not intended to advocate the use of a Battery Tender. IMy comment simply provides a method to measure the battery voltage without the process of opening the door and hood. Sorry if this was not made clear.
 

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Press down both red and blue temperature control arrows at the same time then press either the volume or tuning button six times consecutively (on the same side of the red and blue arrows).
If I do it on the tuning side it usually unsyncs the temperature settings. Better for me to use the driver's side control arrows.
 

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I called Napa and they say that although the Odyssey battery is on the national website, at the store level they have no ability to order any Odyssey batteries nor have they received any. I also can't order it on the Napa website so it may take time. His statement was "the distribution channel isn't set up yet".
 

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In Japan, Panasonic's battery is rated top for the car with ASS. I don't know if it is available in USA. The model number for Subaru Outback (Japanese model with 2.5) is N-Q100R/A3.
caos アイドリングストップ車用 ã€A3シリーズ】 | パナソニックカーãƒãƒƒãƒ†ãƒªãƒ¼ | Panasonic
The battery series name is ironically named CAOS, Car battery Absolute Osteo Structure. CAOS in spanish is translates to Chaos in English. Typical Japanese naming fiasco.
I follow Japanese Subaru Forum but don't see any battery problem post. Many are switching to CAOS but not because original failed. They just upgrade to CAOS.
 

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I’m curious about a Lead Acid replacement for an ASE Outback, instead of an AGM. Just curious.

What about LiFeOH (Lithium Iron Phosphate) ones? I think I read that those are popular in EV’s because of discharge duties.
 

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I’m curious about a Lead Acid replacement for an ASE Outback, instead of an AGM. Just curious.

What about LiFeOH (Lithium Iron Phosphate) ones? I think I read that those are popular in EV’s because of discharge duties.
Someone else did a Lithium battery and seemed pleased with it but to me it's still too esoteric - the charging system may need modification. He bought his Lithium battery from China and it was way cheaper than AntiGravity.

 
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