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Discussion Starter #41
ideally we would like them to order us an identical 21 and take this back now. They can either loan us a driver for the mean time or we can drive my daughters 12 Impreza (she’s in drivers ed so my wife would be driving it much of the time anyway). There’s no way we’d let a new driver learn in the xt.
 

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2020 Touring XT, Cinnamon Brown Pearl
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I have some background in building transmissions (not this type) from a past life. Every one we built was tested on a test stand prior to shipment. The number one cause of failure was contamination,.

The valve bodies are die cast and the passages have very high length to diameter ratios and many have curved paths. These are very difficult to clean and ensure that coring materials are out of all the passages. In addition to the difficulty of cleaning the parts, you occasionally discover something really stupid, like an assembler eating a sandwich and sesame seeds going all over the place.

I doubt that Subaru casts the valve bodies themselves. It is a highly specialized process. If cleanliness is not controlled all the way through the process, this can lead to failures.

Here is a great video that shows the teardown of a Subaru CVT. Pay particular attention to all the passages in the control valve so that you can see the complexity.

I'm am not inferring that contamination is the cause of the OP's problem, but just want to give everyone an appreciation for the possibility.

 

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I have some background in building transmissions (not this type) from a past life. Everyone we built was tested on a test stand prior to shipment. The number one cause of failure was contamination,.

The valve bodies are die cast and have very high length to diameter ratios and many have curved paths. These are very difficult to clean and ensure that coring materials are out of all the passages. In addition to the difficulty of cleaning the parts, you occasionally discover something really stupid, like an assembler eating a sandwich and sesame seeds going all over the place.

I doubt that Subaru casts the valve bodies themselves. It is a highly specialized process. If cleanliness is not controlled all the way through the process, this can lead to failures.

Here is a great video that shows the teardown of a Subaru CVT. Pay particular attention to all the passages in the control valve so that you can see the complexity.

I'm am not inferring that contamination is the cause of the OP's problem, but just want to give everyone an appreciation for the possibility.

It is 2020 and a transmission needs to be this complex, why? True masterful engineering is the simplest at it's finest...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

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19 Limited/20 Onyx (7TH)
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It is 2020 and a transmission needs to be this complex, why? True masterful engineering is the simplest at it's finest...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
True if we wanted like an old farm tractor gear box. Lasts forever and very simple BUT the public demands high performance, MPG at it s best, smoothness, many variables of gearing, all temperature sensitive so it operates the same in super hot and cold etc etc... Look at a Porsche PDK transmission ($20K to replace ) but I had a few and they are stunning in the performance, and they are reliable , until they break <LOL.. just my 2 cents.
 

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It is 2020 and a transmission needs to be this complex, why? True masterful engineering is the simplest at it's finest...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Well there are these devices called manual transmissions that are MUCH simpler, however the market seems to be driven toward drivers that either can't or don't want to think about shifting gears. So the automatic transmission has to, in effect, do the thinking. The torque curves of engines and electric motors, so far, are not suitable to the entire range of speeds that today's vehicles travel.
 

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Well there are these devices called manual transmissions that are MUCH simpler, however the market seems to be driven toward drivers that either can't or don't want to think about shifting gears. So the automatic transmission has to, in effect, do the thinking. The torque curves of engines and electric motors, so far, are not suitable to the entire range of speeds that today's vehicles travel.
Good point. I drive a stick as well.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #47
The service department wants to now replace the transmission again, along with front axles and some other components. I'm throwing in the towel, our confidance in the car is gone at this point and by the time that all happens the lemon law 30 day down requirement will be past. I asked Subaru customer service to see about ordering us a new 21 identical car, said they will let us know Monday. They have been really nice to work with so far, but i realize that I'm just talking to a customer service person and not a decision maker. We shall see.
 

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The service department wants to now replace the transmission again, along with front axles and some other components. I'm throwing in the towel, our confidance in the car is gone at this point and by the time that all happens the lemon law 30 day down requirement will be past. I asked Subaru customer service to see about ordering us a new 21 identical car, said they will let us know Monday. They have been really nice to work with so far, but i realize that I'm just talking to a customer service person and not a decision maker. We shall see.
You will know how serious SOA is on your request by who is handling it. If you get passed on to a more senior representative, you're on the right track to getting a replacement car at some point. If you're still with the original individual who first took your call, probably not.

I was very dismayed when the transmission was replaced early on in the life of our 19 Outback, but pleasantly surprised at how well it turned out. The right techs really can do something like this and have it turn out right. In my case the new transmission behaved the same as the original, which meant there was nothing wrong with the transmission in the first place. In your case, I would bring up do you really think I've had two transmissions that are bad, or is something else going on that no one can figure out? To me that's the foundation of a good argument to just get a different car. I think I mentioned before that working with SOA and your dealer towards a resolution generally gets better results than working against Subaru through legal channels. Hopefully they'll work with you to keep you as a happy customer.
 

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... every vehicle is an accumulation of tolerances... sounds like a good time to try another combo, good luck. We’ve had decent experience with one premature post-warranty failure (AC compressor on ‘14 Impreza) that Subaru covered.
 

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... every vehicle is an accumulation of tolerances...
This is SO true and the responsibility for minimizing this is with the designers and using proper tolerancing. The housing sections are dowels to each other and are critically located to the bearing bores. I still think back to the comment about the fluid becoming brown and wonder if there is a CVT pump issue or a passage being blocked causing overheating. Also wonder if the "debris" in the bit of fluid was seen/inspected or just assumed.

This will be interesting in the end. I hope we find out what the real cause of this was and not just that it is "now fixed".
 

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2020 Limited XT Autumn Green Metallic/Warm Ivory, Falken WIldpeak A/T Trail, OEM Skid Plates etc
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Hopefully they make this right and since this is a new launch, i would think at this point... they will.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Well, I'm guessing it's not good news as they promised to let us know by 7PM eastern Monday and its Tuesday... Plus I can't get a hold of them now.
 

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Well, I'm guessing it's not good news as they promised to let us know by 7PM eastern Monday and its Tuesday... Plus I can't get a hold of them now.
It takes time with them. I though the same thing but things went fine. They definitely missed some callback expectations with me.
 
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