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5EAT Transmission issues

17K views 30 replies 9 participants last post by  joegyoung 
#1 ·
Hi all. I recently bought a 2010 3.6R with the 5-speed automatic used with 59k miles on it. This is our 4th Subaru. I read the reviews became familiar with the torque converter clutch issue, steering wheel vibration issue and others. Drove the car and only issues I could detect were rear wheel bearings and some torque converter clutch chatter and a less than silky engine. Had bearings replaced along with rotors and pads. No more noise back there and braking much better. After two fuel system cleaner treatments w/20z bottles of Techron the engine became silky and even starts a little quicker. The clutch chatter even seemed to be less evident but its still there if I provoke it with just the correct light throttle setting during up/downshifts. I tried manual shifting with the paddles and that didn't seem to help. Then went back to what we did back in the day when GM first introduced lockup clutches in their torque converters and that is shift the transmission with the gas pedal. When road/traffic conditions permit, I accelerate up through the 1st 3 or 5 gears to between 40-45 when the shift to 5th occurs. At that point I ease my foot off the pedal and watch the tach drop to 1,000rpm. When it settles, I ease the pedal down, the clutch locks up and away I go in 5th with no chatter. Seems to consistently work for me. I haven't experienced any chatter on downshifts since I used the fuel system cleaner. The hesitation coming off idle when coming out of a turn is still there if I press the pedal quickly but if I ease it down there is no hesitation. So right now I'm fat dumb and happy with my Gen IV Outback. The 3.6 motor offers a noticeably different driving dynamic than our previous 2.5 engines - smooth torquey power flow. My wife's 2015 2.5 with the CVT has over 80k miles on it and its just as peppy as can be (but without the additional torque) and gets terrific gas mileage. After all the complaints about CVTs, I like it and have no complaints about its performance - although the extra 50k miles of warranty is reassuring.

A final mention of the engine cover on the 3.6. Very poor un-subaru like design on the rear mounts. I welded the mounts back on the cover with Bondic, one of the adhesives
that cure under a UV light but hold the light on for a full 30 seconds. Don't believe the amateur blogs. A little sandpaper to smooth out the mounting pins themselves and some grease on the grommets will ensure a much smoother fit.

Just a general note on the 2.5s. After 3 of them, they all seem to have had a sweet turning point at about 75k miles when the engines seem to respond better and the gas mileage improves. Am I weird or has anyone else noticed anything like that?
Cheers - Subinut
 
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#2 ·
I have a 2012 3.6R with the 5EAT, I am having no problems with the transmission but I agree with the engine cover. I ended up getting a new one and greased the grommets. That's really all that is needed if you remove it by gently popping them out from the rear of the cover. Every oil change, I clean and regrease because I also drain and fill the transmission oil at that time (it's easier for me to reach the tranny fill tube with the cover off).
Have you or someone else drained the front and rear diff fluid, how about the transmission fluid? I saw no record of these services when I bought mine at 52k in Feb, so I did both, dropped the transmission pan, cleaned out the magnet and transmission filter, refilled. It's was time for both for sure.
 
#3 ·
Regarding the 5EAT ATF, I do a simple drain-and-fill every 30,000 miles. Takes about 20 minutes and requires right at 4.5 quarts of fresh ATF so you drain out almost half of the old fluid each time. Fresh ATF is always a good insurance policy for these transmissions. I have stuck with the regular Subaru HP ATF, easily obtainable and affordable at the local dealerships or online. Now approaching 56,000 miles and my 5EAT continues to perform exactly as designed.

Regarding the 3.6R engine's plastic dust cover, I accidentally broke those two plastic rear tabs off not long after purchasing the vehicle in early November 2015. I opted to run 2-inch-long bolts up through the two holes in the metal bracket underneath the dust cover where the rear tabs used to pop into and drilled two holes in the dust cover where the bolts can poke up through it. The dust cover is then held firmly in place by two wingnuts that screw down onto those two bolts. Works for me.
 
#4 ·
Hi all. I recently bought a 2010 3.6R with the 5-speed automatic used with 59k miles on it. This is our 4th Subaru. I read the reviews became familiar with the torque converter clutch issue, steering wheel vibration issue and others. Drove the car and only issues I could detect were rear wheel bearings and some torque converter clutch chatter and a less than silky engine. Had bearings replaced along with rotors and pads. No more noise back there and braking much better. After two fuel system cleaner treatments w/20z bottles of Techron the engine became silky and even starts a little quicker. The clutch chatter even seemed to be less evident but its still there if I provoke it with just the correct light throttle setting during up/downshifts. I tried manual shifting with the paddles and that didn't seem to help. Then went back to what we did back in the day when GM first introduced lockup clutches in their torque converters and that is shift the transmission with the gas pedal. When road/traffic conditions permit, I accelerate up through the 1st 3 or 5 gears to between 40-45 when the shift to 5th occurs. At that point I ease my foot off the pedal and watch the tach drop to 1,000rpm. When it settles, I ease the pedal down, the clutch locks up and away I go in 5th with no chatter. Seems to consistently work for me. I haven't experienced any chatter on downshifts since I used the fuel system cleaner. The hesitation coming off idle when coming out of a turn is still there if I press the pedal quickly but if I ease it down there is no hesitation. So right now I'm fat dumb and happy with my Gen IV Outback. The 3.6 motor offers a noticeably different driving dynamic than our previous 2.5 engines - smooth torquey power flow. My wife's 2015 2.5 with the CVT has over 80k miles on it and its just as peppy as can be (but without the additional torque) and gets terrific gas mileage. After all the complaints about CVTs, I like it and have no complaints about its performance - although the extra 50k miles of warranty is reassuring.

A final mention of the engine cover on the 3.6. Very poor un-subaru like design on the rear mounts. I welded the mounts back on the cover with Bondic, one of the adhesives
that cure under a UV light but hold the light on for a full 30 seconds. Don't believe the amateur blogs. A little sandpaper to smooth out the mounting pins themselves and some grease on the grommets will ensure a much smoother fit.

Just a general note on the 2.5s. After 3 of them, they all seem to have had a sweet turning point at about 75k miles when the engines seem to respond better and the gas mileage improves. Am I weird or has anyone else noticed anything like that?
Cheers - Subinut
Hi Brucie

There was no evidence that the trans or diff fluids were changed. I need to have a recall taken care of but we're still staying close to home for awhile yet. When I go I plan to have all that done.
Regarding the 5EAT ATF, I do a simple drain-and-fill every 30,000 miles. Takes about 20 minutes and requires right at 4.5 quarts of fresh ATF so you drain out almost half of the old fluid each time. Fresh ATF is always a good insurance policy for these transmissions. I have stuck with the regular Subaru HP ATF, easily obtainable and affordable at the local dealerships or online. Now approaching 56,000 miles and my 5EAT continues to perform exactly as designed.

Regarding the 3.6R engine's plastic dust cover, I accidentally broke those two plastic rear tabs off not long after purchasing the vehicle in early November 2015. I opted to run 2-inch-long bolts up through the two holes in the metal bracket underneath the dust cover where the rear tabs used to pop into and drilled two holes in the dust cover where the bolts can poke up through it. The dust cover is then held firmly in place by two wingnuts that screw down onto those two bolts. Works for me.
Hi Jon. Why didn't I think of that - LOL. Neat idea. A friend recommended the Bondic. I have since successfully welded the shank of my favorite frearson head screwdriver to the ferrule
and a wood drawer pull with the stuff. Don't try to use it like a glue, however, the UV light can't get to it to cure it.
 
#5 ·
60K miles?

1. does the engine idle smooth? if not, you got a misfire for some reason. fix that first.
60K = time for new plugs per Subaru

2. 60K = new transmission fluid time, IMHO skip right past the OEM FLUID and use Valvoline Full synthetic ATF

I got my outback with 140K on it and it had a horrible misfire to the point it was a bucking bronco going up hill at light throttle. The fix was 6 new plugs, replacing the #4 cylinder coil pack connector that was broken (previous owner had broken it when they tried to remove it) and 6 new OEM Subaru coil packs (NGK is the OEM manufacturer and the parts are branded Subaru). I also ran 1 can of Seafoam ATF treatment through the fuel tank and 2 cans of Seafoam motor treatment afterwards... now it purrs like a kitten at idle and the wiring harness has been completely repaired and you would never know I fixed it if I did not tell you.

My diagnosis was confirmed by several transmission shops that pretty much stated Subaru e5at are very stout and they never see them in for repairs. every single shop said the same thing, check your plugs and coils.

Now at 146K the car runs and drives like it was new...with a combined fuel economy of 25.5mpg.

Next up is that pesky p0420 code caused by previous owner running it too long with a misfire
 
#6 ·
MaiMai - Thank you for the information. There was no misfire - the engine just didn't feel right. I think the injector clean with the TECHRON cleaned them up nicely and did the job. The engine is quiet and silky smooth now. Yes, I just turned 60k miles with it. We're still staying close to home yet because of the pandemic but I need to take it in for the air bag recall. When I do that, I will have them test the ignition system and do the transmission fluid and spark plugs. I've used Sea Foam for years but the TECHRON works faster and better I find on the injectors.
Is the torque converter lockup clutch in yours chattering on occasion - feeling like riding over washboard when it doesn't lockup quickly? Others have suggested the Valvoline synthetic ATF
also but I don't know what the real cause of the hokey pokey clutch problem is. In my mind its a design issue like insufficient hydraulic pressure, vacuum etc in the valve body like orifice size or spring tension in the solenoids/valves but I'm no expert. Shifting mine with the throttle works but I will ask the techs when I take the car in. We've bought a couple of cars from our dealer and many of the techs in their shop are racing Subarus so they're pretty savvy. I haven't taken a long trip with it yet but so far I would say my average fuel consumption around town is about 23mpg which is not bad for the 3.6. My wife's 2.5 averages 25mpg in similar driving. Great cars and they're like mountain goats they will go anywhere.
 
#7 ·
I dunno where you are but here I was quoted a LARGE chunk of change to do 6 plugs and coils ($1K)

coil packs are $115 plus tax each
plugs are $20 each
plus labor

I did the job myself for $500 and my time (got parts off of rockauto)

and after I did that, the transmission was back to smooth as butter.... (though I did change the fluid about 4x to get all the original fluid out when I first got the car)
 
#8 ·
Hi all. I recently bought a 2010 3.6R with the 5-speed automatic used with 59k miles on it. This is our 4th Subaru. I read the reviews became familiar with the torque converter clutch issue, steering wheel vibration issue and others. Drove the car and only issues I could detect were rear wheel bearings and some torque converter clutch chatter and a less than silky engine. Had bearings replaced along with rotors and pads. No more noise back there and braking
Hi Subinut,
I concur regarding the torque converter issue. I am pissed. My '14 3.6 only has 122,000km on it, and I just dropped $1,800 CAD on it to have the torque converter taken out, sent to a different province to get rebuilt, and then re-installed. I admit that I drive the car like a grandpa!!! When I was investigating what the culprit of the chatter was, I took it to the local Subaru dealership, and let me tell you...they were convinced it was the final drive shaft, and wanted me to agree to have it replaced. When I lost my mind on them, speaking to the service manager, they then wanted me to authorize 5hours of labour for them to look for the issue...at $125/hour rate. I can only imagine what the final invoice would cost when, and if they'd narrow it down to the torque converter. It's their car, and they did not instil any confidence in me that they are competent at repairing it. I had the repair done at a Transmission Shop...they confirmed it with 95% certainty after a 5minute test-drive.

Krystian
 
#9 ·
So sorry to hear that Krystian. The problem is well documented on auto blogs and Subaru owner forums. My wife has a 2015 2.5 with the CVT. At 80k miles, its starting to tremble a little but unlike the 5eat, Subaru added another 50k miles to the extended drive train warranty (100k miles) on the CVT but no support whatsoever on the 5eat. It is so sad. I have 60k miles on my 2010 3.6. Poetic justice would be to trade it back to them - LOL. So far so good with mine though. I'm accustomed to shifting with my throttle foot. There are so many
recommendations, out there i.e., flush and fill transmission with Valvoline full synthetic, have the engine tuned and replace spark plugs and coils, have the firmware reprogrammed.
Don't know what to believe. Come to think of it I don't recall reading where the torque converter remove/repair/replace was the final solution. Please post your extended driving experience now that yours has been replaced. If the problem is solved, what did they do. I read where one independent transmission shop was rebuilding the valve bodies but no i've seen no posts where the rebuilt valve bodies were the answer. My lockup clutch chatter could anywhere between 40-60mph but so far so good with the foot shifting trick. I'm curious
what the dealer techs where I will have the recall work and trans. flush done. They are a bunch of Subaru racers. If anyone knows they would. Good luck and keep us all posted on'the long term performance of your rebuilt torque converter.
Subinut39
 
#13 ·
Sorry to read about your disappointing 5EAT transmission issues. My 2013 5EAT has been flawless. Granted, the vehicle is just approaching 56,000 miles now so my mileage is relatively low for a 7-year-old vehicle. But I still believe that my habit of doing ATF drain-and-fills every 30,000 miles will keep my 5EAT in good shape for years to come. Time will tell.
 
#14 ·
Hi Jon. Thank you for the info. Unless I missed something, you're the first to say your 5EAT has been flawless over 56k with 30k ATF drain and fills. That is encouraging. Did you refill
with Subaru ATF or some other? Some people swear by the Valvoline full synthetic ATF. Wonder what if any improvements were made between my 2010 5EAT and your 2013. I must say, however, this whole affair is very un Subaru-like given the reliability and performance of other models. With so many of the persnickity 5EATs out there, it would cost a fortune to bring them all in under a warranty program. Even with the 50k extended warranty on the CVT, the odds are in Subarus favor not many of them will fail requiring re-work - but still it is comforting to know Subaru is behind them. I'd be happy with a warranty to 100k or a time frame beginning at original delivery. I guess thats too much to ask Subaru but they aren't making many points with owners of the 5EATs. That has to have some negative impact on future sales.
Subinut39
 
#15 ·
I have stuck with the recommended Subaru HP ATF product. Easily obtainable and very affordable in my neck of the woods.

I did months of research back in mid-2015 prior to finding and grabbing my 2013 3.6R in early November of that year. It had just come off a 2-year lease and had 25,500 miles. It had been properly serviced by a couple of the Subaru dealerships in the area in which it came from (Northern Virginia).

My research pointed to the 3.6R as the best bang-for-the-buck midsize AWD SUV to fit our needs (hauling big dogs, our primary snow vehicle, a reasonably-priced general purpose SUV) at that time. I missed out on a couple of them in September and October 2015 because they were immediately snapped up by anxious buyers as soon as they rolled off their leases (and they were somewhat overpriced in my opinion because the dealerships did not have to negotiate due to their popularity with those who did their research on the 3.6R models). I got lucky finding the one we wound up with and that independent dealer was willing to negotiate with me.

It quickly became my daily driver due to its overall capability and requirement of just routine maintenance from me (I am a DIY guy). My wife has a 2015 Lexus RX350 with just over 51,000 miles but I much prefer my 3.6R because it is faster, quicker, more fun to drive, and far more capable of going anywhere and doing anything than her Lexus is.

My expectation is that this 3.6R will serve me for many years still to come. Time will tell.
 
#20 ·
same here 146K and trans runs like a top, engine on the other hand needs a smidge more work (possible #4 injector as the miss is intermittent and it has a new plug and coil) I dunno who had this car before me but they could have done more to take care of it. I got It back to top performance and once I get this last thing figured out, I am going to see if it can make it to 300K miles.
 
#19 ·
It is becoming more evident that fresh ATF, regardless of the brand as long as it meets the required specs, is a very good idea as our 5EAT units continue to roll up the miles.
 
#21 ·
to Red Subi, Joey and Jon. Thanks folks. One can't argue with success. I will join and become a permanent member of the club.
same here 146K and trans runs like a top, engine on the other hand needs a smidge more work (possible #4 injector as the miss is intermittent and it has a new plug and coil) I dunno who had this car before me but they could have done more to take care of it. I got It back to top performance and once I get this last thing figured out, I am going to see if it can make it to 300K miles.
same here 146K and trans runs like a top, engine on the other hand needs a smidge more work (possible #4 injector as the miss is intermittent and it has a new plug and coil) I dunno who had this car before me but they could have done more to take care of it. I got It back to top performance and once I get this last thing figured out, I am going to see if it can make it to 300K miles.
I use Techron - 20oz bottle. Routine use keeps injectors clean and engine purring. I'm a long time user.
subinut39
 
#23 ·
My procedure when I buy a used car is one 20oz jug of Techron in the tank then fill it. Run it halfway down then dump another 20z in it then fill it. Then dump in a jug every other oil change. If all it is is the injectors, that'll do it and you should notice the change. My 3.6 is much more responsive and smoother than when I test drove it.
Subinut39

il
 
#24 ·
All of our vehicles get a 20-ounce bottle of Techron down the hatch at every oil change. Been doing it this way for at least a decade. Never had a fuel injector issue on any of our vehicles, past or present.
 
#25 ·
I know this thread is over a year old now but hoping someone will pick up on it. We just got a 2014 3.6 with the 5EAT in it. It has a stumbling issue shifting around 40 ish to 50 ish mostly when hot. runs fine over 55 and below 40. Running under cc at 65 and hitting a hill it will down shift and kick rpm to 3k with no stumble at all. Also, in park, you can run the engine up to 3500 and no missing. So it seems very likely to be transmission issue. I have done one drain and fill cycle and will do another. It listed Dextron III for this vehicle so thats what I used. ATF looked like good coffee not ATF. The first change did little to improve the issue. I see there are issues with the solenoids with the 4EAT, does the 5EAT have the same thing? If this continues is there any hope of getting just the one solenoid instead of the whole block?
 
#26 ·
Hi Joe - Downshifting on a hill would be normal, depending on the angle of the hill. My headache was the lockup torque converter clutch - other than that my 5EAT shifted just fine.
If you just bought it, didn't any of these anomolies show up in the test drive? "Good Coffee" looking ATF may be the answer to why it has shifting problems. If that caused wear on clutches or anything else all the ATF changes in the world will not correct whats worn or damaged. 5EAT transmissions are no longer in service by Subaru and I got no sympathy from Subaru N.A. (60k miles on my 2010) other than $1,000 towards a new car which a dealer would happily give me anyway. I'm afraid you will have to get it diagnosed and get an estimate to repair. In my case, at the dealer, it was on the order of approx 2500 bucks to pull the torque converter apart and replace the clutch or 3500 for a used (86k miles) transmission or 7000 for a new 5EAT. After market clutches were out of the question because most suppliers couldnt tell me which revision the clutch was that they rebuilt. There are a lot of good 5EATs out there as reported by other owners. This is about all I can offer you. Perhaps someone with your transmissions symptoms will pick up on this - otherwise,
get it professionally diagnosed.
Tony
 
#27 ·
well thanks for the input. I don't think I can get much joy from the Subaru dealers but might get a guess as to the issue. Don't see how it could be the torque converter in my case as it only happens at 45 MPH +/- 5. Looking at a number of 4EAT shift solenoid videos it could be the same sort of thing with shorting out. Hoping for someone who has had this issue with a 5EAT to chime in.
Joe
 
#28 ·
The torque converter in the 3.6 5EAT can lock up at various speeds and various gears (second to fifth gears I believe) BUT the most common time the 5EAT will lock the torque converter is between 45 and 55 mph.

I have just removed the torque converter from my 3.6 5EAT and it is going to a torque converter rebuilder tomorrow to have the lockup clutch rebuilt.

My 2011 is just about to turn over 237,000 Km’s (148,000 miles) and the torque converter has been “shuddering” between 45 and 55 mph since I purchased it about three years ago. When purchased it had 195,000 Km’s (122,000 miles)

You may want to re-think whether the torque converter may be the problem with your vehicle.

Seagrass
 
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#29 ·
well that is very interesting information. I will deffinently investigate more. I saw that torque converters were an issue in 4EATs. I see that the lock up clutch kicks in around the speed where I am having issue. The shudder could well be clutch issues. I'll try more drain and fill cycles to get more fresh fluid in. I have had 6 Forsters with a aggregate of well over a million miles but all have been manuals except the one my son drives. So no issues with AT s. All my other vehicles are manuals also, mostly trucks. Just spent months looking for a Frontier with a manual 6. AT is not my preferred transmission. But we wanted the H6 for more towing power which it has. Unfortunately it seems there never was a manual coupled to the 3.6 H6.
 
#31 ·
🤔 I can see how injectors and coil packs could give a similar shudder. But having run the car up to 3500 rpm in park with noting and that is always and only happens 45+/- 5 mph, seems like transmission. I found a sorce of solinoids to replace those in the transmission for around 150. I can open up the bottom and replace them myself and at the same time get most of the ATF changed, If that doesn't fix it I'll look at injectors and coil packs before I pull the tranmission and get the torque converter lock up clutch rebuilt.
 
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