[twtcad]

Hello....we have a very second hand '96 Impreza Outback that my son drives back and forth to school. It has 218k on it and has been a great car for the pas two years with very little trouble. Well she is basically dead in the water right now and undrivable. I'm at a loss in which direction to go next. I will list it's symptoms and then what we have done so far.....
-idles rough around 500rpm
-put in gear and go to drive away, it just boggs and will not go. If you play w/ the pedal you can get it to slowly build and then you can drive it fine.....upper rpm's seem to be ok.

What we have done so far:
-new NGK copper plugs
-new Duralast wires
-new NAPA coil
-new Bosch fuel pump & filter (we checked fuel flow since we don't have a gauge and it was pathetic, new pump doubled flow)
-cleaned EGR
-cleaned MAF sensor
-pulled CAT to see if it was plugged and killing the exhaust flow (good)
-around the time we got it 2yrs ago I did timing belt, water pump, seals & vc gaskets so I'm pretty sure it's not out of time, but we did attempt to check the timing w/ a SnapOn light and could not find the mark. Even rotated it 180deg w/ light and still no mark. One thing that is odd is the crank pulley has a wobble to it....don't remember if it's been there all along.....

Please help...........

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

crank pulley is either loose or the rubber between the 2 pieces is deteriorated.

seems like cam timing may have slipped a few teeth and you have reduced power is a good possibility.

any CEL codes?

 

[twtcad]

interesting about the crank pulley.....and yes I was thinking the same thing.....I think Saturday I will be pulling the timing belt...if off time, new belt and tensioner.....no cel codes

 

[sirtef9]

coolant temp switch will make it run like poo.

 

[twtcad]

Well I decided to teach my 17yr old more about working on cars and let him start taking it apart today and this is what we found. Crank shaft and both pulleys toast! Options I'm considering right now are:
- I have a buddy that is a fabricator and mechanical engineer.....having him look at it and see if he can weld a new keyway to shaft and pully, getting a new outer pulley and firing her up.
- JB welding it all back together and letting it set for a few days and see.....but honestly I have real concerns about JB weld getting a solid attachment to the polished hardened crack shaft
- or junk yard motor swap if I can find one at a reasonable price

any thoughts or suggestions.......please

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrb1x8bmerkxx4q/20121207_113756.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/70l8toiay81krmx/20121207_120421.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvuf1d1vygjihyj/20121207_122241.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/12rq9tje5luvsed/20121207_120413.jpg

PS....if the pic links do not work, please let me know and I will try another way....thanks

 

[twtcad]

I have found this and this looks promising.....

wobbling pulley ruined crankshaft keyway - Ultimate Subaru Message Board

I hope it is ok to link to this forum.....I believe I've seen others do it.......

 

[canubaru]

this is not an uncommon problem. usually caused by not torquing the crank bolt to 137 ft. lbs. be ware. some manuals mis-quote this spec.

replace the crank sprocket, pulley, key and maybe the bolt.
you do not have to do anything to the crank it self.

i would also also replace any and all parts related to the timing belt,
belt, all idlers, water pump, and seals. once done you will not have to deal with the crank bolt for 60k - 100k miles.

install the new parts and line up the new crank sprocket. the damage to the crank will let the sprocket ''slop'' in the counter clockwise direction, not the clockwise direction. if you install everything with the correct alignment and torque it to spec, you should be good to go.

the key does not hold the sprocket in place. if it did you would not have this issue. the key only aligns the sprocket while you tighten the bolt. thge bolt dose all the actual ''holding''.

good luck.

note: not the arrows, never the arrows.

 

[twtcad]

Nice....Thank You canubaru. I'm still leary about not welding the spot at the keyway but I will discuss w/ my mechanic buddy who is coming over tonight to help me fix it. He's bringing his welder and after he finished laughing at the pics he said not problem we will have it fixed tonight. So keeping my fingers crossed. As far as replacing everything else, the timing belt, water pump and seals barely have 10k miles on them and the car has over 218k miles on it and I don't think its worth spending the hundreds of dollars it will take to replace all that stuff for this vehicle. So my son and his buddy are headed to the junk yard right now to pull the two pulleys off another motor which just happens to have a 96 2.2ltr Impreza there. So we will see what happens later......

Thank you all again for all the info and help! Todd

 

[canubaru]

hey, if you have a friend with a welder and he can fix the crank without screwing it up, go for it. but i would not recommend welding the sprocket to the crank, not that you said you would.

good decision on the timing belt parts. 10k is too early to replace them. but if there is anything you did not replace before, do it now.


you have what is generally referred to as a ''bullet proof'' non-interference engine. 218k is nothing for this engine. it will go 300k easy. just keep oil in it.

remember the commercials for the outback with ''crocodile dundee'' in the austrailian outback? well this is the engine that should have been in that car. it is easy to work on, non-interference, and it will take a lot of abuse and keep running. it has HLAs, hydraulic lash adjusters so no valve adjustments and if the oil gets really low it will let you know when they start to clatter. add oil and go again.

good luck with the fix.

let us know how it turns out.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

speaking of oil, now might be a good time to re-seal the oil pump

 

[idosubaru]

This is easy, tell your friend to stay home and not waste his time, I don't even know how often I've done this.

Clean up the crank and bolt a new (or used) pulley to it.

***You do not need the key way - at all***

If you are unsure, or fear the pulleys isn't going to bolt up flush (it probably will with a small amount of clean up) post pictures of your crank here and I'll give some pointers, confirmation. I can promise you it will hold if you do it properly.

When you bolt the new pulley on you just have to get it tight (but you always have to do that even for a crank with a key). It's a huge steel crank and bolt, not aluminum like the block - so it easily takes it. I use about a 2.5 foot cheater pipe over a socket and crank it really hard...i've never measured footpounds. One could entertain using non-permanent lock-tite but i never have.

The pulley absolutely will not come off and the key way is not needed. I've done it countless times over many years, including to the exact same engine that's in your car.

As an engineer myself, most engineers would not be that helpful as they are not trained or competent in this way. Hopefully being a fabricator he has a more practical bent to him. I'm an aerospace engineer with government birds flying over your head right now with stuff i've built on them, but that is almost useless - far more important is the mechanical Subaru experience with this exact issue.

 

[idosubaru]

This is easy, tell your friend to stay home and not waste his time, I don't even know how often I've done this.

Clean up the crank and bolt a new (or used) pulley to it.

***You do not need the key way - at all***

If you are unsure, or fear the pulleys isn't going to bolt up flush (it probably will with a small amount of clean up) post pictures of your crank here and I'll give some pointers, confirmation. I can promise you it will hold if you do it properly.

When you bolt the new pulley on you just have to get it tight (but you always have to do that even for a crank with a key). It's a huge steel crank and bolt, not aluminum like the block - so it easily takes it. I use about a 2.5 foot cheater pipe over a socket and crank it really hard...i've never measured footpounds. One could entertain using non-permanent lock-tite but i never have.

The pulley absolutely will not come off and the key way is not needed. I've done it countless times over many years, including to the exact same engine that's in your car.

As an engineer myself, most engineers would not be that helpful as they are not trained or competent in this way. Hopefully being a fabricator he has a more practical bent to him. I'm an aerospace engineer with government birds flying over your head right now with stuff i've built on them, but that is almost useless - far more important is the mechanical Subaru experience with this exact issue.

 

[twtcad]

Thank you everybody............well my buddy came over early this morning before I got back on here and we welded the crank. He did an excellent job and we were able to install the pulley and keyway w/ just a slight tapping....fits perfectly and can be removed if ever need be. Got it all put back together after confirming the timing marks are correct and adjusted the tensioner and the **** thing will not start. Just cranks, sounds like it might but just sputters. Pulled it back apart again and confirmed the timing marks are still correct. I've checked everything I can think of; checked spark, crank sensor is installed and yes it has gas....lol. We drove it in the position it is in now then pulled it apart.............I'm frustrated and stuck.............

 

[twtcad]

of coarse grossgary.....now I get your post and could have avoided welding, but at least now we know it is more of a functioning keyway w/ support on both sides. But it's a mute point at the moment because the **** thing will not start...........uuuuuuggggggg

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

did any of the tabs on the crank sprocket get broken off?

CAS needs everyone I think. also, is there a CEL? scanning might help pin down a system preventing starting.

unlikely but, you might try holding the pedal on the floor incase there's too much fuel in the cylinders - that's the 'clear flood' procedure.

 

[twtcad]

Excellent call Texan..... cylinders were definitely full of fuel....lol
Well chauk this up to me being a dumb ass and hopefully a lesson for future shade tree mechanics.....there is two markings on the crank pulley; one a triangle on the outer portion and one a long tick on the outer tab......use the outer tab. I had originally put it all together using the triangle like a dumb ass! Fixed the timing and she runs like a scalded dog as long as you don't WOT off the line. She is running better now than she has ever run and when my son took it for a test drive after I cleared out the fuel filled cylinders....he was all smiles, a happy 17yr old. Thank you everybody for the tips and help!

 

[twtcad]

Oh and Texan....yes we had to hold to pedal WOT to get it started.....good call.

 

[idosubaru]

there is two markings on the crank pulley; one a triangle on the outer portion and one a long tick on the outer tab......use the outer tab.

people make that mistake all the time, glad you caught it. i wonder if Subaru engineers did it on purpose and scour forums like this for late night giggles?

good job cranking it all out and getting back on the road.

just make sure that crank bolt is really tight.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

"not the arrows, never the arrows"

 

[twtcad]

LOL....yeah, not the arrows.....man I'm still feeling dumb...but yes very glad I caught it.

A couple of more quick questions I hope......yes she is running fantastic but still I think it has an issue.

-From a standstill if you WOT it falls on it face.....is this normal?
-From a standstill you depress the pedal to anything but WOT she takes of like a jack rabbit.
-Also and it has always done this.....when you get into higher rpm's she starts to whistle almost like it has a turbo (but it definitely does not). I'm assuming this is a normal for this style motor?

Thank you all so much again as when I first found the issue we all thought for sure the motor was toast and you have assisted in keeping her alive for hopefully another 100k miles!