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2019, Subaru Outback Limited 3.6R
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908 Posts
The body, transmission, and oil pan are all 2 inches further away from a rock.

The Approach, Break Over, and Departure angles are slightly improved.

Mine drug on the path to the cabin, path to local camp grounds, path to swimming holes, kayak put ins, etc before the lift was installed.
Don’t disagree.
However, rarely will that 2” really be a deal breaker where you can go vs the other limitations of the Subaru Outback platform?
Also, you are dropping some components which is the opposite of why you lift.
 
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Brucey
'17 3.6
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10,854 Posts
Don’t disagree.
However, rarely will that 2” really be a deal breaker where you can go vs the other limitations of the Subaru Outback platform?
Also, you are dropping some components which is the opposite of why you lift.
It's a minimal improvement but it's an improvement.
 

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Fillup, the 2017 3.6R
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94 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
You're joking right? Your 2" lift kit will not provide ANY added benefit off road over the original off-the-lot Outback. Why?? Because you still don't have a low-range transfer case or a locking diff, which in conjunction with a lift kit COULD provide additional serious off road capabilities. Without them you're not accomplishing anything except a higher stance. Add in the fact that you now have a suspension wobble that wasn't there before and I don't get it either.
The Subaru Outback is a great vehicle for light off-roading i.e. slogging over rutted out dirt roads, sloshing through small snowdrifts etc. It will do that whether you have a 2" lift or not, and will not do much more than that without much more serious modifications.
No I'm not kidding one bit. Feel free to have a constructive argument. You should refrain from putting mouth fulls of words in my mouth though. There are plenty of inclines and even flat roads that the stock outback could never hang with and now I don't even second guess it. You're right if we want to go down the rabbit hole of off road abilities it's no where close to what one could achieve with another vehicle or even a different rear differential on a slightly older/different subaru model that you can buy a torq locker for... but no where did I try and argue the vehicle I now own is the best rock crawler ever made. Your points are well taken but lack clarity in their delivery, because my comment about a car not being off road suited at its "off the lot" configuration is independent of your knowledge on what makes a car a great mud/rock crawler.

You actually proceed to totally contradict yourself in the first paragraph of your post. Again, your points aren't wrong inherent to themselves as facts, but a higher stance creates added benefit in every definition of the word benefit. A stock Outback can low through over 10inches of snow, and I mean even this shitty PNW stuff we call snow that's more like a slushy one gets at 7/11 and a rutted out road is exactly what my outback couldn't hang with (assuming Im not the worst off road driver and can logically pick my lines)

Listen @sb001 , I was simply juxtaposing our friend @MiamiC70 's choice of word to his current investments into his car. WHICH IS FINE, btw, just an observation. Just run a little inverse sin calculation and see how much approach and departure angles are improved, its pretty fun ;) mind you my stupid fake muffler bolt ons don't help one bit for increasing this lol
 

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Fillup, the 2017 3.6R
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94 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
Improvements that improve off-road performance just let you get stuck in worse spots. 😄
aint that the truth. One of the testers for Primitve shed this lesson to me about how his current replacement bumper winch-mount system seems to find all the spots on familiar trails he's managed to avoid over the years and plops him right down into them lol
 

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By stance I meant the way it looks sitting higher but of course you knew that. Look I get your upset that you spent hundreds if not thousands for nothing special. I was in trig in 9th grade so I know that those angles of entrance/ angles of departure would have to be some pretty dang exact for 2" to make any notable difference. I suppose it's possible that you have the most coincidentally specific angles for your lift kit in the history of the earth where you drive but I doubt it. Like Miami said a 2" lift will not be a deal breaker in the places you camn still go with the stock vehicle.
 

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Fillup, the 2017 3.6R
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94 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
By stance I meant the way it looks sitting higher but of course you knew that. Look I get your upset that you spent hundreds if not thousands for nothing special. I was in trig in 9th grade so I know that those angles of entrance/ angles of departure would have to be some pretty dang exact for 2" to make any notable difference. I suppose it's possible that you have the most coincidentally specific angles for your lift kit in the history of the earth where you drive but I doubt it. Like Miami said a 2" lift will not be a deal breaker in the places you camn still go with the stock vehicle.
I would never be upset about investing into the things im passionate about. Engineering, creating more capable vehicles by modifying them, doing the shimmy from 15-20 mph, supporting local businesses.... While everything you've stated is literally correct in its own right, you fail to see that just because what you say is true doesn't mean that performing a modification to my car is now void any inherent value to my own daily routines. I suppose lowering a vehicle to make it more aerodynamic serves no purpose to you either because it wouldn't make it "aerodynamic enough" at a 2" drop to justify it?... although the improved power performance by cutting out some drag forces can easily be understood when you start cutting seconds off your quarter mile runs....Coincidently the routes I couldn't take before the lift and that I am now able to coincidentally take needed about that much more clearance from my vehicle.... There's nothing coincidental about evaluating, strategizing and executing. In fact, thats why there's 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear, because thats what I figured I would need, not because I played mouse button roulette when I was on ADF's website.... A 2" lift was a deal maker, I can now drive my car up to the places I couldn't?.... I wasn't magically able to compete in the SuperCrawl after the lift, but it served it purpose, with an added wiggle... If a 2" lift isn't justified in your life, don't buy one. speed bumps at the mall aren't that big anyway...
 

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What does the "wobble" actually feel like? I'm approaching the time to replace my struts and I've considered a 1" spacer while I have it all apart.

Is it like hard braking with warped rotors? Or death wobble from a Jeep (I've had it)?

I have read several things about it but have not been given a detailed description of the physical experience.

***Sidenote, on my previous XV I had a CV joint fail under warranty. It was a '14 and what I read was the early Crosstrek was just an Impreza hatch with Forrester ground clearance so the angle of the CVs was compromised from the start. These inherent suspension challenges are a major reason I have yet to purchase a lift kit for the OB. But they certainly look sweet!!
 

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Fillup, the 2017 3.6R
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94 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
What does the "wobble" actually feel like? I'm approaching the time to replace my struts and I've considered a 1" spacer while I have it all apart.

Is it like hard braking with warped rotors? Or death wobble from a Jeep (I've had it)?

I have read several things about it but have not been given a detailed description of the physical experience.

***Sidenote, on my previous XV I had a CV joint fail under warranty. It was a '14 and what I read was the early Crosstrek was just an Impreza hatch with Forrester ground clearance so the angle of the CVs was compromised from the start. These inherent suspension challenges are a major reason I have yet to purchase a lift kit for the OB. But they certainly look sweet!!
That's a great question, and hopefully others chime in because I don't want to speak for everyone, but mine is mostly like a little shudder in the steering column. Its actually really hard to compare to anything because of how discrete it is so maybe that's why anyone lacks a complete description of it?.. If you notice how much fun I poke at the "shimmy" its because like any rational being, I was dead afraid of this too for the longest time, but it happens to be a laughing matter because of how negligible mine is. Again, others have taken the lift right off after they ran into it because maybe depending on when the install goes in matters that much on how aggressive the shake is? idk, if I know enough to properly talk through this but the kits with the multilink spacers are suppose to minimize that exact CV joint angle change to the driveline from what I understand. Im still learning so maybe i can explain that more properly later or someone else can chime in. @Brucey and @traildogck are very knowledgable if you want to message them more about it.

P.S. this is nothing compared to the jeep death wobble or warped rotors. (coming from a '89 wrangler guy here)
 

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2016 Subaru Outback 3.6R
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14 Posts
By stance I meant the way it looks sitting higher but of course you knew that. Look I get your upset that you spent hundreds if not thousands for nothing special. I was in trig in 9th grade so I know that those angles of entrance/ angles of departure would have to be some pretty dang exact for 2" to make any notable difference. I suppose it's possible that you have the most coincidentally specific angles for your lift kit in the history of the earth where you drive but I doubt it. Like Miami said a 2" lift will not be a deal breaker in the places you camn still go with the stock vehicle.
Look, we get it, you don't want it and are against it, but other people like it and for them it does make a difference. For me it is a difference of not going to the local off-road park where the trail grooves are almost 12" deep in spots or having the car lifted and being able to make it and have a lot of fun. And I had a lot of fun installing and tuning it too, so the few hundred I spent on it were well worth it.
 

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Brucey
'17 3.6
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10,854 Posts
That's a great question, and hopefully others chime in because I don't want to speak for everyone, but mine is mostly like a little shudder in the steering column. Its actually really hard to compare to anything because of how discrete it is so maybe that's why anyone lacks a complete description of it?.. If you notice how much fun I poke at the "shimmy" its because like any rational being, I was dead afraid of this too for the longest time, but it happens to be a laughing matter because of how negligible mine is. Again, others have taken the lift right off after they ran into it because maybe depending on when the install goes in matters that much on how aggressive the shake is? idk, if I know enough to properly talk through this but the kits with the multilink spacers are suppose to minimize that exact CV joint angle change to the driveline from what I understand. Im still learning so maybe i can explain that more properly later or someone else can chime in. @Brucey and @traildogck are very knowledgable if you want to message them more about it.

P.S. this is nothing compared to the jeep death wobble or warped rotors. (coming from a '89 wrangler guy here)
The closest thing I can compare it to is right when the brake rotors start to warp and you gently brake from a low speed. Just enough to notice it and as soon as you do it's gone.

Lasts maybe a second. With the insert it's 95% reduced. Only noticeable if you try and look for it. I have the before and after on video here for a good visual:


I think the cause is probably the U Joint on the front of the rear differential or the opposite end of the drive shaft. Since everything else is essentially in the same spot as far as the car is concerned.

Traildog might know more. He's the drive line specialist. I'm just the test monkey.

Oddly on my 2.5 I never noticed it. It wasn't until I lifted the 3.6 that I noticed it.
 

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2015 Subaru Legacy
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12 Posts
485898
We have the same components so it was super easy to just bolt on the kit from ADF. I’m able to fit 235/65 r17 without any rubbing even at full lock. I’ll be going a bit higher hopefully by the end of the summer. I’m around the same clearance as a stock outback now.
 

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Brucey
'17 3.6
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10,854 Posts
We have the same components so it was super easy to just bolt on the kit from ADF. I’m able to fit 235/65 r17 without any rubbing even at full lock. I’ll be going a bit higher hopefully by the end of the summer. I’m around the same clearance as a stock outback now.
I'm not sure why you bothered. I have on good authority that the height difference between the Legacy and the Outback is just for show and doesn't actually increase it's capabilities at all.

I kid I kid.

Cool ride! Makes me wish Subaru would still make the SUS.
 

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2015 Subaru Legacy
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12 Posts
I'm not sure why you bothered. I have on good authority that the height difference between the Legacy and the Outback is just for show and doesn't actually increase it's capabilities at all.

I kid I kid.

Cool ride! Makes me wish Subaru would still make the SUS.
485910

I don't understand how people don’t get that these two cars carry the exact same capabilities.

lmao thank you man
 

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I'm not sure why you bothered. I have on good authority that the height difference between the Legacy and the Outback is just for show and doesn't actually increase it's capabilities at all.

I kid I kid.

Cool ride! Makes me wish Subaru would still make the SUS.

There is a terrific reason to lift the Legacy sedan. It's almost a full 3" lower than the Outback, lower than several other 4 door sedans, actually lower than my 69 VW bug (5.9" vs 6.3".) So you're doing the AWD system a favor by complementing it with a modification to maximize its potential- e.g. getting through deeper snowdrifts, etc.
So that modification I completely get.
However the Outback is known for its stock ground clearance already being better than most other SUVs of that segment. So you achieve ZERO added benefit going from 8.7 to 10.7 inches in the places you will be taking your Outback without other serious modifications. The opposing viewpoint I keep hearing always goes back to the same exact argument: "Well it makes a difference where I Drive!" I find it interesting that the folks who justify this lift seem to be an exclusive group of people who have magically uncovered the specific places on earth where particular angles of ascent/ angles of declination are precisely the angles necessary for those 2" to make a significant difference. It's far more accurate to call this insistence what it really is-- complete horseshit.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
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26,035 Posts
We have the same components so it was super easy to just bolt on the kit from ADF. I’m able to fit 235/65 r17 without any rubbing even at full lock. I’ll be going a bit higher hopefully by the end of the summer. I’m around the same clearance as a stock outback now.
sweet looking ride there in front of that jeep. I want to lift a 2010-present legacy. (as I have a 2002 legacy outback sedan with too much rust now).

please click on the link in my signature to and give us the specs the legacy. (so it appears at the left of your posts)
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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16,074 Posts
I think wobble comes from 2 things. On aged car, car with miles before the lift, a contributor is changing the CV axle angles/lengths. This applies regardless of whether the lift has a rear subframe drop or not.

New or new-ish cars, with rear subframe spacers change the driveshaft angles. This stresses the front u-joint and the rear. Especially if those cars do not have the ADF (or similar) carrier bearing spacer. Because, just dropping the rear subframe mess with a 2 piece driveshaft even more.

Cars that leave the rear subframe alone are unlikey to experince "wobble" unless they also have CV issues.

I of course, have not experinced any this 1st hand with a Subaru. I do have over 10 years experince building my own off-road Jeeps and Trucks. They are simpler beasts, because they are not unibody and not so rigid as 5-star rated chassis. However, its all simple geometry and a little simple physics. The math doesn't change, and that is what the math tells me.

@Brucey and myself worked extensivly to do the best we could to help solve this on his car, few years ago now, Huh? Anyway, at the time we were just a couple of enthusists bending one of my designs, trying to make another Suabru better. Nobody expected the "tranny plug" catch on.
 
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