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Discussion Starter #1
I'm wondering what parts you guys would like to see made available via automotive aftermarket companies.

Keep in mind 90% of engine components you might want are probably already available either for the Legacy or STi, so let's try to keep the requests Outback Specific. Please also state if your requests are for Outback Sport (OBS) or Outback (OB).

#1 on my list is better brakes. The Legacy has larger rotors front and rear. While sourcing Legacy rotors is a possibility, the cost of OEM parts is not cheap. I'm trying to find out if the calipers are the same, but my assumption is that larger calipers are also fited to the Legacy to fit the larger rotors, meaning that any upgrade would require 4 rotors and 4 calipers.

#2 on my list is stainless steel brake lines. The stock brake petal feels VERY mushy, and has very little "feel" to it. SS brake lines should firm up the pedal a tad, and should hopefully transmit more "feel" back to the pedal.

#3 on my list is better struts. The rear of the OB wagon feels over sprung/under damped. Some struts better matched to these springs would go a long way into giving the OB wagon a much better handling "feel" and raise driver confidence.

#4 on my list is a full coilover setup. Matched springs/struts in a height adjustable configuration. Allowing us to lower the vehicle for everyday driving (lower center of gravity), and raise the vehicle to increase off road clearance. NORMAL Coilovers are usually limited to stock ride height at their highest settings, or possibly .5" higher. I would like to see a set of coilovers that would allow us to raise the OB by 1.5" to 2" for off roading, and lower the car by 1.5" to 2" for on road driving (both points referenced from stock ride height). Idealy, the strut travel would remain the same in the raise/lowered position, but potentially, it may have to be compramised at extreme top or bottom positons due to body work/brake line/wheel clearances.

#5 on my list would be thicker anti-sway bars.

#6 on my list would be quick disconnects for the anti-sway bars. They are common in the SUV/Truck off roading world, so shouldn't be that hard to find/get made for us. (dis connecting the sway bars allows much more wheel articulation when off road, meaning more traction. This would be an OFF ROAD ONLY modification. You wouldn't need these unless you plan on doing off-roading.

#7 on my list would be aftermarket exhaust (3rd cat back) made for the wagon. It seems like 90% of the aftermarket exhaust are sedan only. I'd like to see some Wagon exhausts out there.

Do you guys have any requests to add?
 

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Here are my thoughts on your list...

#1. I'm not sure if this would help much. The current setup is more then powerful enough to lock the wheels. The bigger brakes of the LGT are only solicited if you are using the breaks heavily for extended periods of time. They provide better heat absorbtion and dissipation and reduce fade from overheating. Not something you're likely to need in normal driving.

What I would like to have is a better ABS setup. I sometimes feel like Subaru sourced this ABS from GM and bought the Chevy Cavalier version!

#2. This might be nice if it makes a big enough difference.

#3. Yep, I would definitely buy those!

#4. Way too expensive for my taste.

#5. Yep, I would buy those too!

#6. I don't do serious enough off-roading to warrant this.

#7. That would be nice if they are not too expensive. Keep in mind it is not just a question of sedan vs. wagon. The Outback has a very different exhaust system compared to the Legacy Wagon.

#3 and #5 are basically all I would be in the market for at this point.

I should get my Cobb AccessPort this week and I will order new wheels and tires in the spring.
 

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Petty... but a better coffee cup holder that fits in either the existing holder slot or lower down on my 97 LOB. I know there are some out there and seen them but none I'm looking for that look more stock like.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The reason for the larger LGT brakes would be for better pedal "feel", and a firmer brake pedal. The added benefit of better braking/brake fade would just be a bonus. To me, the OBXT has the worst brake feel (near complete lack of braking feel) and the most pedal travel of any vehicle I have ever owned.

Those list I provided was just the list I thought up, based off my own personal wants/needs/desires. I'm sure other folks have their own.

Subhuman-
Have you looked into the Fischer cupholders? Griots Garage sells them for about $16/$17 bucks, and you can find them on ebay 2 for $20.

GERMAN-ENGINEERED CUP HOLDER AND COLD BEVERAGE CONTAINER
This ingeniously designed Cup Holder glides open with an easy one-hand touch. It adjusts to fit and secure all types of cups, glasses and bottles and holds 9 fluid-ounce cans or 1 liter water bottles (holds cups from 2 1⁄4" to 3 1⁄4" in diameter). In fact, it's the same cup holder used in several Mercedes models including the 500SL. When closed, measures 4 3⁄4"l x 4"w x 1 1⁄2"h. Not some cheesy accessory, but nicely made in Germany.
Our ultra sleek, German-designed Cold Beverage Bottle is made from lightweight stainless steel and coated in a smooth red finish. The top cover easily snaps open to reveal a pop-up spout. Leak-proof when closed to avoid spills. Big, 24-ounce capacity. 9 1⁄2" tall and 2 7⁄8" in diameter.

I installed 4 of them in my range rover (2 front, 2 back) and they work GREAT.
 

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Random--

since aftermkt is driven by demand, and they've sold how many XTs or even 05 OB's so far, hope you enjoy your car as is.....:p i suspect you'll be able to find some SS brake lines altho prolly for the LGT, hope they're long enough for OB wheel travel.

larger calipers are also fited to the Legacy to fit the larger rotors, meaning that any upgrade would require 4 rotors and 4 calipers.

i think you're likely to also need proportioning valve and master from LGT if you want to do job right. and given the LGT's target mkt and pricing, it may be a while before they're in junqueyards.

one more advantage of buying the OBS: we can get tons of bigger brakes from the rexers who've gone to still BIGGER ones....:D
 

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Hmm, I'm not convinced that the rotors would really change the feel. I think the feel has a lot more to do with the "assist" and the brake lines. I test drove an LGT and OB back to back and didn't notice any difference, although I wasn't looking for one.

My OBXT's brakes are certainly not the best I've ever owned, but I don't find the feel objectionable. Took me a few minutes to adjust and now they are fine. Either I'm less picky or yours are defective.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I was thinking that mine were defective. I bled them, thinking that was the problem. Hey, assemblylines make mistakes. I've also had one dealership look at the brakes, but they were claimed to be "normal". So I'm assuming the problem is simply in MY preference for a VERY FIRM brake pedal with less than 2" of travel (to many highly modified cars in my past).

I've done brake upgrades on other cars using OEM and aftermarket equipment, so I've got an idea of what I'm TRYING to do. My assumption is (ass-chump-ton) that since the LGT has larger rotors, they have larger calipers which would mean larger pistons (or more pistons). Depending on the size or number of pistons on the LGT, simply switching over to the LGT setup may shorten pedal travel and firm up the pedal, thus transmitting more feel. Granted, the piston #/Size arrangement may go the other way, and I may end up with softer/more pedal travel:eek:

I've got to do more research on the size of the OB's master cylinder, and the size of the LGT's master cylinder, then get the info on size and number of pistons in the calipers. Or find an aftermarket setup that will work, but possibly a LGT setup from a junkyard might be cheaper. (might).

Last time I checked, Subaru is selling more OB's than L's.
 

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There's only a couple things to remedy pedal travel as you requested. There's really only a couple things that will shorten pedal travel as you requested. One is lessen the expansion of the hydraulic fluid. That could be helped out by SS brake lines which don't expand as much as rubber ones under a load. The other is getting all of the air out of the lines.

Just getting bigger pistons in the calipers, or bigger calipers will do nothing for the pedal travel problem. It will help in braking, but not the pedal travel. Besides making sure the master cylinder is working fine, changing out the brake lines and ensuring no air is in the lines, that's about it for pedal travel in my opinion.
Now, pedal feel is about the same way. A mushy pedal is usually one of two things, air in the hydraulic system and/or the expanding of rubber in the hydraulic system. Brian
 

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Brian, i a=gree 100% but was too lazy to write all that out. this plan also has advantages of being cheap and easy, and still interfaces nicely with the more serious stuff later.

Random, have you checked StopTech web site? they offer good brake upgrades for rexes and might have something that wd fit the XT.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Moderators, since this has degerated into a discussion of brakes, could we get this split off into a seperate brake topic?



The "largest" effect you can have on pedal travel is master cylinder piston size. (not really an option for us unless suby has another master cyclinder in a larger/smaller bore size in another vehicle with the same exterior bolt pattern.)

Next would be pedal ratio/lever (not really an option for us (requires custom fabrication, unless suby uses a higher lever ratio on say the STi or WRX compared to the LGT/OBXT), it can also lead to a very "progressive" brake pedal, which is NOT a good thing, you want LINEAR braking from LINEAR brake pedal application.

Next would be Caliper Piston surface area (# of pistons in caliper and their overall size)

Next would be Stainless steel lines

Next would be a fluid change, assuming you wanted to spend the bucks for a less compressable, high temp, high buck racing brake fluid. (Stock DOT 3/DOT4 works darn good. DOT5 has issues)

If you guys want the LONG disertation as to how master cylinder size affects braking feel/power, I can go into it, explaning each modificaiton. For those that REALLY want to read up on all there is to know on brakes.

Brake Handbook by Fred Puhn
Brake Systems: Oem & Racing Brake Technology by Mike Mavrig1An, Mike Mavrigian, Larry W. Carley

Those 2 books cover 99% of what you'd ever need to know about disc/drum brakes, including most of the various ABS systems.
 

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my list

adjustable coilovers also for lifted applications

lifted springs 1"-2" since AUS stuff is hard to get

lifted struts(full travel) offroad only

strut tower braces (front/rear)for outbacks 3gen

performance exhaust for outbacks 3gen
 

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Yeah, performance exhaust and a chip too!

I would also like to see a front grill guard with light brackets. I have two 9" Hella Black Magic fog lights, new in box, with no way to mount them!!!

Also, I would like to find a stock STI blow off valve. The HKS I have may or may not void my warrantee, so I want to replace it.
 

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A nice looking 3" CAI system (not DIY PVC) for my '97 LOB 2.5L MAF that I don't have to do any modification of the OEM components to fit it all in. I want that with either Green or K&N filter and filter heat shield.
 
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