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2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i 2003 Legacy L special edition (retired to backup)
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Discussion Starter #1
Car has new plugs (140K) and 5 new OEM coil packs (146K) and this issue only is appearing when cold...once the 3.6 warms up, engine runs smooth. I have run since I had the car about 3 bottles of Seafoam through it and it is much improved... what I need to know is outside of mechanical damage, what can cause this?

P0301
P0304

also any diagram of what I should be looking at would be appreciated...
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Since they are not only opposing sides of the engine, but also 4 is in the middle of bank 2 while 1 is forward bank 1, There could be a vacuum leak at the intake gasket, equalizer hose/pipe, or it's injector faults.

Can you look at STFT when it runs bad and see what the computer is doing? If it's adding fuel (+), it's a fuel delivery problem or vacuum leak. If it's removing fuel (-), the cylinder(s) is misfiring on ignition or it's getting flooded with fuel.

AF sensor issues would cause this. Timing is another. Dirty throttle can screw with the TPS feedback.

Absent data from the car, you can use an accelerant like brake clean or equivalent and spray short burst around the base of the intake and around the throttle body and see if the engine tone changes.

486280



486281
 

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2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i 2003 Legacy L special edition (retired to backup)
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Discussion Starter #4
OK will log some data for you, might be tomorrow morning before it is posted due to it only does it when cold (sitting overnight)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@cardoc lol OBDlinx does not automatically record data into a log file so it totally bombed out this morning.

more details

1. I found the snorkel loose at the throttle body and I tightened it
2. I verified that all coil packs are connected and are properly tightened
3. While starting the car and watching the logs I noticed that lambada for bank one was slow to get on point. while running it was OK.

one other thing. If I rev the car while in park or neutral I do get a bit of shuddering between about 2300-2500 RPM. When you are in drive and stomp on it, engine is smooth and will easily reach redline...
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Look for cracks in the resonator box on the throttle body. Are the PCV hoses connected good and without cracks at the valve cover connection?

What do you mean by "slow to get on point" for bank 1 Lambda?

What is the STFT doing at startup and after it goes to CL fueling? The car goes to CL when the heater circuit on the front AF sensors drops to under 50 mA. It will continue to run the RPM higher than curb idle to warm it up, but it'll be in CL. If your app doesn't show you OL/CL fueling, or the AF heater circuit resistance, you'll need to find one that does in order to determine the ECM intention and how it responds to sensor feedback.
 

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2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i 2003 Legacy L special edition (retired to backup)
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Discussion Starter #7
when I started the car Lambada for bank 2 went right up to where it should be and bank 1 slowly ramped up and then started working properly

I have BTSSM, will that give me the data I need?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@cardoc Will do.. should have a file later today and one again tomorrow morning when cold
 

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Discussion Starter #10
also have new PCV hose on order old one looks like poo, also going to look at the one for brake booster
 

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Discussion Starter #12
@cardoc here is the txt file for each knock event BTSSM has logging enabled but it will not actually write any data to a log file. here are 2 snapshots of the first misfire and the final (it lasted all of a few seconds)
486431
486432



To read the text file open excel and use import data from text, accept all the default settings and voilla.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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The screenshot isn't giving me much. What is the system doing when it is reducing fuel to -18 and -22? Is this when it misfires?

Misfires on 4 of the 6 cylinders can be a vacuum leak or fueling. Maybe bad grounds that are affecting spark or injector operation. Slow response from the ECM will cause misfires. You operate the accelerator, the throttle opens, ECM is late delivering fuel, misfires occur. Could be APP, throttle is slow to operate and the ECM adds fuel enriching the cylinder and misfires occur.

A data stream is best to see what is transpiring across the inputs and outputs. See Here for an example from a RR PID list. P0420 Diagnosis
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I cannot get BTSSM to data log to the Galaxy S8. OBD Linx will only do 4 and I have yet to try torque but that will be up next.

BTSSM is not a cheap app but ****, it is limited
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK let me get that setup a VAG cable works right or can I use the OBD Lynx module?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK I have one of those and I will load romraider into my dell tablet (Latitude 5175)
 

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+1 on cardoc's suggestion to go old skool and use a spray to find the leak.
As the engine warms up, materials expands and can close up the leak.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@cardoc
OK removed intake tract and no leaks. the hose that runs from the driver side valve cover directly to the intake is starting to get hard. but it is not sucking air. Here is the text file of this morning's drive. use the import data from txt file option in Excel and then accept all of the defaults
 

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