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Discussion Starter #1
Broached this in another thread but did not want to hijack it further. Aisin, Rockauto and Amazon all say this fits 2010 but not a 2007 OB 2.5 SOHC w/o turbo. BUT, the Subaru part numbers for the 3 idlers (2 smooth and 1 cogged) and the tensioner are exactly the same for 2007 and 2010. The Subaru part numbers for the water pump are not the same but Aisin calls for the same WP in both 2007and 2010. Also, Subaru part numbers for the 2007 and 2010 timing belts are different but Beck Arnley and Gates Call for the same belt for both years. In summary, it appears the Aisin kit listed for 2010 also matches 2007.

Has anyone used the Aisin TKF006 kit on an older than 2010 2.5? Does anyone know why Subaru part numbers for timing belts and water pumps are different for 2007 and 2010 when they appear to be the same part?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok, still working on this and hoping for some help. Aisin says the TKF 006 fits a 2007 Forester but not OB. Gates and Dayco call for 304 TB on Forester and 307 TB on OB. Description of 304 and 307 belts is identical - 27 mm wide x 1784 mm long x 8mm pitch with 223 round teeth. Does anyone know why the 2007 Forester takes a different TB than a 2007 OB? I am thinking it has to do with the VIN 4th digit, B vs G.
 

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From what I can find, I believe the difference comes-down to the emissions.

You are correct, the belt mechanical specs (for the aftermarket, at least) seem identical. Everything else in the system shares the same part number, except for the belt.

However, (the VIN difference gave it away. And the 2002-2004 Outback compatability), Subaru started shipping PZEV vehicles some time in 2006/2007 for the Legacy and Outback. By 2010, however, I believe ALL Outbacks and Legacies were PZEV. There were some SULEV versions of the Forester and Outback in 2004 (the EJ259), but those even got different intake manifolds, converters, and 5 oxygen senors (yes, 5).

What's PZEV? Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle. It means that it tries VERY hard to minimize it's emission profile (CO, CO2, gasoline vapors, etc) to make states like California and New York happy. The "emission profile" also includes things like materials out-gassing. That's right, materials out-gassing. Things like paint, interior adhesives, interior materials, and rubber compounds. When heated or stressed, it can release chemicals "known to cause cancer in the State of California" and some legitimately nasty chemical compounds and greenhouse gasses.

So, from what I can surmise, the belts have different part numbers due to the different material component of the belt. This also impacts the life expectancy of the belt (which is why in some literature, a 60k mile belt interval is recommended rather than the 105k due to "California emissions" vehicles).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Diamond, thx for response. You may be right but this morning I found different explanation. Even though the overall physical dimensions are the same, the teeth have a slightly different profile. Apparently one variation of the EJ25 has two metal cam shaft sprockets and the other has one plastic and one metal. Perhaps the different tooth profile affects emissions too.
 

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That could easily be reason as well.

The driver's side will always have the metal cam gear (for the SOHC engines), but I've seen metal on the passenger's side before. I don't have any personal data though... Why the tooth profile should change since only one gear changed when everything else was the same? I don't know, but Subaru will do what Subaru wants..

Edit: mixed-up my sides. Corrected above.
 

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That could easily be reason as well.

The passenger side will always have the metal cam gear (for the SOHC engines), but I've seen metal on the driver's side before. I don't have any personal data though... Why the tooth profile should change since only one gear changed when everything else was the same? I don't know, but Subaru will do what Subaru wants..
My 2008 Outback (PZEV) has both metal cam gears on driver and passenger sides.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Just got off the phone with Gates. Was able to get someone who knew what he was talking about. 304 and 307 are definitely not interchangeable as they have different tooth profiles. One is ramped and one is not. Misapplication will mess with your cams and likely throw a code. Having said that, all other components are the same so you are still ahead of the game by buying the Aisin kit and the correct belt (I like Bando or Mitsuboshi). You can always sell the unused 304 belt on eBay so it does not go to waste.
 

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Just got off the phone with Gates. Was able to get someone who knew what he was talking about. 304 and 307 are definitely not interchangeable as they have different tooth profiles. One is ramped and one is not. Misapplication will mess with your cams and likely throw a code. Having said that, all other components are the same so you are still ahead of the game by buying the Aisin kit and the correct belt (I like Bando or Mitsuboshi). You can always sell the unused 304 belt on eBay so it does not go to waste.
Thank you for sharing the important information. If 304 and 307 belts have have two different teeth profiles, then, the toothed idler pulley must also have two different teeth profiles. Therefore, they may not be the same for two applications.

By the way, can you confirm that AISIN kit has all Japanese parts from the same suppliers as OEM with exact same supplier part numbers? I am looking for OEM timing belt kit for my 2010 Impreza which uses 304 kit.
 

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Thank you for sharing the important information. If 304 and 307 belts have have two different teeth profiles, then, the toothed idler pulley must also have two different teeth profiles. Therefore, they may not be the same for two applications.

By the way, can you confirm that AISIN kit has all Japanese parts from the same suppliers as OEM with exact same supplier part numbers? I am looking for OEM timing belt kit for my 2010 Impreza which uses 304 kit.
Looking into it, the cogged idler DOES have a different part number for 2007 OB vs. 2010 OB.

Oddly enough, 13085AA101 (IDLER, NO 2.) fits 2006-2011 Forester, Impreza and 2010-2012 Outback and Legacy....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Looking into it, the cogged idler DOES have a different part number for 2007 OB vs. 2010 OB.

Oddly enough, 13085AA101 (IDLER, NO 2.) fits 2006-2011 Forester, Impreza and 2010-2012 Outback and Legacy....
I checked two online suppliers and they called for same cog idler on 07 and 10. Will check again.

Update. Looks like cog idler 13085AA061 fits both 07 and 10 OB’s with non turbo 2.5 gas aspirated.
 

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I checked two online suppliers and they called for same cog idler on 07 and 10. Will check again.

Update. Looks like cog idler 13085AA061 fits both 07 and 10 OB’s with non turbo 2.5 gas aspirated.
13085AA061

Subaru's part website says it doesn't fit 10+ OB/Legacy
 

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Discussion Starter #12
13085AA061

Subaru's part website says it doesn't fit 10+ OB/Legacy
Yes, I have come to the same conclusion. They must be pretty close because aftermarketers, eg Gates and reputable eBay kit builder, call for the same idler sprocket. It could work ok since idler isn’t under heavy load like the cam sprockets but I would not chance it.
Bottom line, if you have an 07 OB 2.5 non turbo, do not get the Aisin TKF 006kit. Sorry for the confusion.
 

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Yes, I have come to the same conclusion. They must be pretty close because aftermarketers, eg Gates and reputable eBay kit builder, call for the same idler sprocket. It could work ok since idler isn’t under heavy load like the cam sprockets but I would not chance it.
Bottom line, if you have an 07 OB 2.5 non turbo, do not get the Aisin TKF 006kit. Sorry for the confusion.
gates = all chinese now,...even the part #s with "N" in them.

and one of the sad things about Aisin. when I go to their website to find part #s,...I can't find the exact part # they give for sale.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
13085AA061

Subaru's part website says it doesn't fit 10+ OB/Legacy
What website are you looking at? Today I found several online Subaru catalogs that said the 061 fits the 2010 OB. Subaru has so many sub models and part variations that the catalogs can not show everything. For example today I discovered the Outback Sport is actually an Impreza.

I did buy the Aisin TKF 006 kit and glad I did. All parts are OEM quality made in Japan. I did buy another timing belt (307 instead of 304). My question still remains if I can use the cogged idler pulley in the kit on the 307 belt. Again, different catalogs and different dealerships give me different stories. I bought another OEM, supposedly correct, cogged idler just in case. When I get the parts off the car, I will match things up. The difference in the belts is curvilinear vs modified curvilinear tooth profile. Modified curvilinear looks like a cross between curvilinear and trapezoidal.

PS Paperwork in the kit says it fits 2006-2010 Outback Sport which is an Impreza different than an Outback. It does not list any Outbacks at all, only Imprezas and Foresters.
 

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What website are you looking at? Today I found several online Subaru catalogs that said the 061 fits the 2010 OB. Subaru has so many sub models and part variations that the catalogs can not show everything. For example today I discovered the Outback Sport is actually an Impreza.

I did buy the Aisin TKF 006 kit and glad I did. All parts are OEM quality made in Japan. I did buy another timing belt (307 instead of 304). My question still remains if I can use the cogged idler pulley in the kit on the 307 belt. Again, different catalogs and different dealerships give me different stories. I bought another OEM, supposedly correct, cogged idler just in case. When I get the parts off the car, I will match things up. The difference in the belts is curvilinear vs modified curvilinear tooth profile. Modified curvilinear looks like a cross between curvilinear and trapezoidal.

PS Paperwork in the kit says it fits 2006-2010 Outback Sport which is an Impreza different than an Outback. It does not list any Outbacks at all, only Imprezas and Foresters.


1996-2009 its a legacy, outback trim.

not to be confused with a impreza outback sport. (outback = raised)

so look under legacy then outback trim. (this the way many aftermarket databases are set up).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
1996-2009 its a legacy, outback trim.

not to be confused with a impreza outback sport. (outback = raised)

so look under legacy then outback trim. (this the way many aftermarket databases are set up).
I do not doubt you as I am totally befuddled. However, I read that Outback emerged as an independent stand alone model for 2000MY.
 

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I do not doubt you as I am totally befuddled. However, I read that Outback emerged as an independent stand alone model for 2000MY.
depends on the list and the database you are looking at. many databases, and state registration systems will call 2000-2009 "legacy outback"

in 2010, you get only raised outback wagons
and low legacy sedans.

(no more raised legacy outback sedans,....and no more plain low height legacy wagons,...unless you as a owner raise or lower the car to your desire).
 

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I am curious about the differences in the years 2008 vs 2009. Have been looking at the Aisin TKF-006 for my son's 2009 Outback for a bit now. Amazon has the kit. Their DB says it will fit the 2009 OB but not my 2008 Legacy 2.5i (both need timing belt). I had been of the thought that these engines were identical but now am unsure. To add additional complexity on what will fit, the 2009 OB has had the engine replaced several years back and I have no idea what year/make the donor vehicle might have been. :frown2:
 

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@59ctd

I don't trust amazon fully, what does rockauto.com say for 2008 vs. 2009 US spec legacy outbacks?
 

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@59ctd

I don't trust amazon fully, what does rockauto.com say for 2008 vs. 2009 US spec legacy outbacks?
Rockauto does not list the Aisin kit for either but the other mfgr kits are for the most part the same for the 08 Legacy and the 09 Outback. The '307' kits are for the 'B' (Legacy) VINs and the '304' kits are for the 'G' (Impreza) VINs. Steers me back to the thought that the 08 Legacy and 09 OB are the same. Now, how to look up the engine serial number to figure out what year/model the engine donor vehicle was...
 
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