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2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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Sorry you had to spend the extra $1500/cylinder just to be saddled with an extra 2 quarts of oil to change and crappy mileage to boot. #sad Live and learn...
We get to drive two 2019 Limited Outbacks weekly, they are identical except for the motors. All four drivers agree the 3.6 is worth every penny. It is so much smoother with quiet, effortless power.
 

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2017 2.5i Premium Lapis Blue
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We get to drive two 2019 Limited Outbacks weekly, they are identical except for the motors. All four drivers agree the 3.6 is worth every penny. It is so much smoother with quiet, effortless power.
I'm sure it is worth it to some and not worth it to others. This isn't all that complicated.
 

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2019 3.6R & 98 Forester Atlanta, GA
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I'm sure it is worth it to some and not worth it to others. This isn't all that complicated.
Yes, it isn't.
Dad now wished he had listened to me.
 

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Brucey
'17 3.6 Limited
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10,503 Posts
Performance is relative. At various times in my life for daily drivers I had a '76 Chevy Luv automatic, a '78 Plymouth Horizon automatic, and a 1987 Chevy S10 2.8V6 automatic. If they did a three-lane drag race with those three we wouldn't know the winner because everybody watching would get bored and go home before they reached the finish line.
My 2.5 Outback feels like a big-block muscle car compared to those. :laugh:


Just for the sake of guessing I would say the '78 Horizon would have won the above imaginary race.
I remember telling someone here that the 3.6 felt similar in speed to my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII and they assured me there was no way that was possible. It was a 4.6 Ford V8 and it could keep up with Mustangs! (I mean the Mark VIII was a mustang but whatever)

So I looked it up and the Outback was actually faster 0-60 times (0.1 second faster, although 0.1 second slower in a quarter mile drag race) as far as times.

It's the same argument for Legacy GT/Outback XT people. 14 second quarter mile times is what a stock Honda Accord will do these days. That ain't fast bro.
 

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Performance is relative. At various times in my life for daily drivers I had a '76 Chevy Luv automatic, a '78 Plymouth Horizon automatic, and a 1987 Chevy S10 2.8V6 automatic. If they did a three-lane drag race with those three we wouldn't know the winner because everybody watching would get bored and go home before they reached the finish line.
My 2.5 Outback feels like a big-block muscle car compared to those. :laugh:


Just for the sake of guessing I would say the '78 Horizon would have won the above imaginary race.
I feel your pain, I once had an '80 Dodge Omni 024 for a year or two.

Once had a good friend with a Chevy Luv. Was a great vehicle once we swapped in a 350 small block.
 

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'18 Outback Touring Dark Blue Pearl 3.6r
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I remember telling someone here that the 3.6 felt similar in speed to my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII and they assured me there was no way that was possible. It was a 4.6 Ford V8 and it could keep up with Mustangs! (I mean the Mark VIII was a mustang but whatever)

So I looked it up and the Outback was actually faster 0-60 times (0.1 second faster, although 0.1 second slower in a quarter mile drag race) as far as times.

It's the same argument for Legacy GT? Outback XT people. 14 second quarter mile times is what a stock Honda Accord will do these days. That ain't fast bro.
I had a Mark VIII LSC and I mentioned on this forum that my Outback 3.6 is actually faster than that 290 hp LSC even with the high-performance chip I had in it.

And the Mark VIII was not a Mustang, it was on the Thunderbird chassis and the DOHC 4.6 was not available in a Mustang until much later. It had SOHC heads.
 

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Twilight Blue 2015 3.6R with Eyesight
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I remember telling someone here that the 3.6 felt similar in speed to my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII and they assured me there was no way that was possible. It was a 4.6 Ford V8 and it could keep up with Mustangs! (I mean the Mark VIII was a mustang but whatever)

So I looked it up and the Outback was actually faster 0-60 times (0.1 second faster, although 0.1 second slower in a quarter mile drag race) as far as times.

It's the same argument for Legacy GT?Outback XT people. 14 second quarter mile times is what a stock Honda Accord will do these days. That ain't fast bro.
I had to bring this one back...
 

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2019 Subaru Forester Premium, Crystal Black Silica, Pkg 15
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Not sure what happened to the 2014 Fozzy you mentioned up there EJ, but I find the delivery to be pretty good in the 2019 Foz. I assume you’re talking about turbo lag? It appears that the modern Subies are trying to stay down in the 2k-ish rpm range and are happy there.
 

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I had a Mark VIII LSC and I mentioned on this forum that my Outback 3.6 is actually faster than that 290 hp LSC even with the high-performance chip I had in it.

And the Mark VIII was not a Mustang, it was on the Thunderbird chassis and the DOHC 4.6 was not available in a Mustang until much later. It had SOHC heads.
I would expect the OB to be faster than the Mark VIII. It is almost 150 pounds lighter.

Pretty sure no one bought a Mark VIII based on performance. They bought it because it was a pretty good looking personal luxury car. I seriously looked at one but my wife convinced me it wasn't going to be very practical for Boy Scout camping. Opted for the '99 Explorer instead.

Same with the OB. Those bragging about the performance of either engine in their family truckster always makes be wonder what the heck they have spent their lives driving. They must have missed out on the raw horsepower days of the 60's and early 70's. As the song goes, "those were the days my friends, we thought they would never end"...... and sometimes they don't. Start of the Hot Rod Power Tour is less than a week away..............
 

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This forum cracks me up. If you don't have a 3.6 you are a peasant, if you have a 3.6 you're a gas guzzling moron. Why can't people just drive what they bought and carry on with their lives?
 

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Brucey
'17 3.6 Limited
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I would expect the OB to be faster than the Mark VIII. It is almost 150 pounds lighter.

Pretty sure no one bought a Mark VIII based on performance. They bought it because it was a pretty good looking personal luxury car.
It had a lot of good tech at the time too and they at least marketed it as a performance vehicle. It was a "Luxury Sports Coupe"

Also it had 30 extra horse power over an Outback.

...

Ahh my Mark VIII.

The engine was great. Loved it. You could rev it but there was never really any point. It could happily idle around everywhere.

Mine had 245k when I hydrolocked it and bent a rod by being a dumb kid and following other cars through flood water. Fun fact: The air intake is at the bottom.

The Honda Civic in front of me made it so of course I could make it, right? :crying:

The air ride makes it still the best highway cruiser I've owned (when the air ride worked).

It would lower itself at speed for better handling and fuel economy (there is a really gimmicky commercial that shows this).

It had a neon?LED? taillight on the entire rear end of it that was a first too I think. Those things also always broke.

The early ones had limited slips but the later ones had traction control.

The cup holders were a joke. But hey it's not like you're shifting when you drive one just hold it between your legs. :grin2:
 

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This forum cracks me up. If you don't have a 3.6 you are a peasant, if you have a 3.6 you're a gas guzzling moron. Why can't people just drive what they bought and carry on with their lives?
Because the internet would wither and die........... :grin2:
 

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Same with the OB. Those bragging about the performance of either engine in their family truckster always makes be wonder what the heck they have spent their lives driving. They must have missed out on the raw horsepower days of the 60's and early 70's. As the song goes, "those were the days my friends, we thought they would never end"...... and sometimes they don't. Start of the Hot Rod Power Tour is less than a week away..............
I won't get a chance to see any of the Hot Rod Power Tour but I at least did at least luck into being around the area for the Midwest Street Rod Nationals in Springfield Missouri last week. I've been wanting to hit one of those for quite a while. I didn't even know it was going on when I was down there until I saw an ad on TV the night before I went. I didn't have as much time as I would have liked there but got to see a lot of great cars. Good time.
 

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I won't get a chance to see any of the Hot Rod Power Tour but I at least did at least luck into being around the area for the Midwest Street Rod Nationals in Springfield Missouri last week. I've been wanting to hit one of those for quite a while. I didn't even know it was going on when I was down there until I saw an ad on TV the night before I went. I didn't have as much time as I would have liked there but got to see a lot of great cars. Good time.
National Street Rod Association puts on some very nice shows. Street rod nationals east is happening this weekend up in York, PA.

NSRA requires vehicles be at least 30 years old to participate.

Hot Rod Power Tour is open to all years.

The joys of being a gear head.....
 

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National Street Rod Association puts on some very nice shows. Street rod nationals east is happening this weekend up in York, PA.

NSRA requires vehicles be at least 30 years old to participate.

Hot Rod Power Tour is open to all years.

The joys of being a gear head.....
The Street Rod stuff is more in line with my tastes anyway. I don't have a lot of interest in anything built in the last 30 years. I was just looking at the pictures I took at the show and it was called the Mid-America Street Rod Nationals and not Midwest.
As a former body man I mostly like admiring the fabrication skills that go into some of the cars. There were just enough Rat Rod entries to see what a good imagination can create as well.





 

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Not sure what happened to the 2014 Fozzy you mentioned up there EJ, but I find the delivery to be pretty good in the 2019 Foz. I assume you’re talking about turbo lag? It appears that the modern Subies are trying to stay down in the 2k-ish rpm range and are happy there.


The 2014 Forester was a 2.5i Premium, CVT, and the first year of a major re-design. Not a turbo.

My vehicle had several annoying characteristics as well as basic design elements that turned out to make me hate it. The throttle tip in was hyper loaded so it was almost impossible to start from stop without a huge jerk. This was especially bad in close stop and go urban traffic. Complained to dealer and got “they all do that, it’s the computer”.

When cold the drivetrain bucked and surged until it reached operating temperature. Faded after 10,000 miles but never went away. Dealer said: “the computer is learning how you drive”. Ok.

The CVT/drivetrain had excessive “rubber band” sensation I could never eliminate by modifying my drying style, except by flooring it, and then it droned.
Trying to pass was an exercise in patience and planning. Throttle management was so sensitive that if you gave it too much gas you got that red line screaming engine but the vehicle hardly moved. It wasn’t a total slug but it was frustrating and maddening to drive.

That and no manual control on a mountain trip got me full bore into hatred mode. I would avoid driving the thing because it literally caused my blood pressure to rise.

I should make sure to mention that I really liked most everything else about the Forester, except the drivetrain. Dumped that thing finally (took a $ bath) and got a 2015 FXT, which had a superior drivetrain in many ways, but also introduced some new problems, like Direct Injection carbon fouling and turbo lag. The transmission was better but still not great (Three mode SI drive) the power was super but still not smooth. The vehicle otherwise I liked very much. And after four years of premium @ $0.60/gallon more and a second case of carbon fouling coming on it was time.

Long story.

It’s also fair to note the 2014 Forester was the first CVT I have ever owned in 55 years of vehicles. And I had never liked any vehicles with one that had been rented or test driven, but assumed I would get over it. Didn’t happen.

My own experience is that modest horsepower/torque CVT drivetrains, especially the earlier versions, were horrid, at least for me. Rubber band kings and droning, loud, loud.

However, when the FXT, with ample loads of power and torque went into boost in “S” or “S#” mode things worked nicely, but that required more speed and gas consumption than I normally liked to employ.

The 3.6r, by contrast, has smooth, gradual power delivery and torque that almost completely masks the nasty CVT characteristics usually prominent with the transmission. Most of the time it seems to drive with the positive aspects of both a step transmission and CVT with little or no downside.

Driving a Subaru is truly pleasant again.

EJ





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“they all do that, it’s the computer”.
They certainly do not. It sounds like you are having more issues with your local dealer here trying to admit there's a problem and fix it.

When cold the drivetrain bucked and surged until it reached operating temperature. Faded after 10,000 miles but never went away. Dealer said: “the computer is learning how you drive”. Ok.
Not that it makes it right, but my 2011 OB 2.5 CVT had a much harsher type of drive when it was cold.

And after four years of premium @ $0.60/gallon more and a second case of carbon fouling coming on it was time.
Hmm. So you had to have media shell blasting twice? Did you have a CEL?

However, when the FXT, with ample loads of power and torque went into boost in “S” or “S#” mode things worked nicely, but that required more speed and gas consumption than I normally liked to employ.
My 2019 Fozzy also drives much different in Sport and i mode. I don't have Sport Sharp, but when I'm on the highway I prefer the Sport. I also used to drive my 2009 Legacy Limited 2.5 like this too - using Sport on the highway.

The 3.6r, by contrast, has smooth, gradual power delivery and torque that almost completely masks the nasty CVT characteristics usually prominent with the transmission. Most of the time it seems to drive with the positive aspects of both a step transmission and CVT with little or no downside.
I think they're just learning better tuning. In my personal first-hand experience, it seems that the 2019's seem to be "tuned" to keep a lower RPM and hold it unless you're really mashing the gas pedal. The result is the perception that it's a much more "quieter" and "refined" experience - but yeah, I like the 3.6 also.

I'm glad you're enjoying your ride again. I do like my Foz a bunch, but I think I'm going to take a shot at the OBXT around this time next summer if they'll take care of the outstanding lease payments and let me get out of it early. If not, I'll just plan for the full 36 months.
 

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Had Subaru chemical cleaning done once on the FXT by the dealer at around 35,000 miles. Carbon effluent destroyed both oxygen sensors the following day. The dashboard lit up with trouble lights like a Christmas tree. Had to replace both sensors. Black gunk was coming out of the exhausts for a while.

Vehicle ran better but 15,000 miles later was acting up again. Misfiring under full pedal, etc. Based on reports, there is some question whether the chemical cleaning gets all of the carbon deposits off the intake.

I figured walnut blasting was next.

I don’t know if the 2.0 DIT is more prone to carbon fouling than any other DI engine but I am happy to now have a port injected, normally aspirated engine. Supposedly all DI engines are carbon candidates (some newer engines have port and DI as a remedy), yours too.




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That sounds like, possibly, the procedure was not followed appropriately? I don't think you'd ever be able to prove or disprove it, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do that. It involves keeping the engine at a certain temperature, certain RPM, for a certain time to clean.
 

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That sounds like, possibly, the procedure was not followed appropriately? I don't think you'd ever be able to prove or disprove it, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do that. It involves keeping the engine at a certain temperature, certain RPM, for a certain time to clean.


Understood. Watched the video ahead of time and decided I wouldn’t buy the kit and do it myself. Having the dealer complete the service ensured it would stay completely Subaru responsibility.

I have no reason to believe they did the service incorrectly. FWIW, you seem determined to avoid the elephant in the room here: direct injection is a real issue that has been glossed over in the search for better emissions and mpg profiles.

It’s an unsolved problem, which IMO is far worse when DI is coupled with a turbo and installed on a non-performance oriented vehicle often used for short trips.
Technically my FXT was a performance vehicle, but I rarely used it that way. Putting a similar power plant in vehicles like the Ascent or the OB is setting up a carbon fouling scenario because they are gently used.

Some folks suggested a frequent “Italian tuneup”, which is running the vehicle to red line, hard, to control carbon. I don’t think that works, but some say it does.


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