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Anyone know if the 2013 Outbacks have "black boxes"? If so, anybody know where they are located or removed one. 96 percent of 2013 models already come with them standard so I figure theres a good chance we have one.
 

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Anyone know if the 2013 Outbacks have "black boxes"? If so, anybody know where they are located or removed one. 96 percent of 2013 models already come with them standard so I figure theres a good chance we have one.
Why would you want to purchase a vehicle, then mess with its electronics? If you want a vehicle without GPS/Navigation, Bluetooth, iPod ports, Automatic everything, diagnostic abilities, "bells & whistles" then you should get a vehicle built prior to 1980. Simplifies things.
 

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Why would you want to purchase a vehicle, then mess with its electronics? If you want a vehicle without GPS/Navigation, Bluetooth, iPod ports, Automatic everything, diagnostic abilities, "bells & whistles" then you should get a vehicle built prior to 1980. Simplifies things.
...Ouch!...
 

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Why would you want to purchase a vehicle, then mess with its electronics? If you want a vehicle without GPS/Navigation, Bluetooth, iPod ports, Automatic everything, diagnostic abilities, "bells & whistles" then you should get a vehicle built prior to 1980. Simplifies things.
What in the world does all that have to do with a black box as per the original question?

I would also be interested in getting rid of the black box or blocking its ability to record. I believe it is an invasion of privacy, and from what I understand it has already been used in/by law suites, insurance companies, and law enforcement for purposes other than the original "safety" reasons intended.

As for messing with the electronics. What if they want to add/or improve the bells and whistles. I did that to bring up to my taste. As many others have pointed out the HK system in these cars is laking for being a premium choice...If these cars where Rolls Royces I would agree that they shouldn't be messed with, but they are not. So to each their own. I replaced my stereo/amp/speakers and it sounds amazingly better than the stock HK unit.
 

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Why would you want to purchase a vehicle, then mess with its electronics? If you want a vehicle without GPS/Navigation, Bluetooth, iPod ports, Automatic everything, diagnostic abilities, "bells & whistles" then you should get a vehicle built prior to 1980. Simplifies things.
...says the guy altering a lot more than electronics on a 2001?

Or do you have something special against altering them when they are brand new?
 

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What in the world does all that have to do with a black box as per the original question?

I would also be interested in getting rid of the black box or blocking its ability to record. I believe it is an invasion of privacy, and from what I understand it has already been used in/by law suites, insurance companies, and law enforcement for purposed other than the original "safety" reasons intended.
Yes, absolutely, the black box is used by police, insurance companies and attorneys to upload pre-impact collision evidence against you.
The box has been in many vehicles for at least a decade. This is not new. BTW, the police must get a court order to upload data from the EDR. Not a problem since your car is impounded as evidence after a wreck.
Car manufacturers support the black box because of deep pocket lawsuits against them after a fatal wreck involving one of their products. The EDR proves the driver is at fault and not defects in the vehicle.
If you carry a phone, you have already allowed others to invade your privacy.
 

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the way I see it, as long as there is no 'abuse' of the available data, it isn't a problem. The info in a EDR might also exonerate someone. It's like having a witness to a wreck - could work for or against you.

It's kinda like cellphone records. If there is a warrant or court order or the info is offered-up, access to whether a cellphone was in use during a wreck has been used in trials.

But, I don't feel the Federal g'mint should be forcing this issue. If Car buyers, their insurance companies and manufacturers want to work it out in the 'marketplace' - i would prefer it happen that way. make it an option - maybe get an insurance discount.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Why would you want to purchase a vehicle, then mess with its electronics? If you want a vehicle without GPS/Navigation, Bluetooth, iPod ports, Automatic everything, diagnostic abilities, "bells & whistles" then you should get a vehicle built prior to 1980. Simplifies things.

Yeah I'd like to get a late 70s Toyota Celica GT liftback but then parts are a bitch to find. Loved those when I was younger. We don't have all the bells and whistles but we have a few most of which we don't use. Maybe you've read some of the posts left after yours and have an idea of why someone might want to remove the box. If you don't have anything helpful or constructive to add please just read and move on.

Upflying thanks for that info. I looked through the different software versions and didn't see any Subarus listed.
 

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...says the guy altering a lot more than electronics on a 2001?

Or do you have something special against altering them when they are brand new?
NO. All the electronics in my car are still factory with exception of the stereo. **** McIntosh.

My point was a little sarcastic, yes. I was also trying to make a point that it is tied in to the other systems on the car.

The only time the information recorded was used in suit was to prove at fault in accidents or commission of a crime. And even in the criminal court, I believe its touchy as to whether it can be used or not. All that recorder does is simplify data retrieval. The ECM records data, just not as detailed or time sensitive with location detail.

Unless you are worried about being sued because of something you did with your car while driving, you shouldn't worry about it. Just leave it be.

How about your home PC or laptop? Cell phone? They record and store everything. If you have an iPhone, your every move with it is stored, every call, text, pic, video. You think your deleting it.

We have quickly become dependent on electronic communication and management in our lives, including the automobile. I am sure someone will find a way to disable it. OK. Has anyone asked if they could have their car built without it? I haven't looked yet, but is it required by a law to have it in the car?

To me, its just a little bit comical to carry a paranoia over a specific device and not others that do the same. Especially when a data recording device was being used to make the post.
 

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Wait - you mean I'm the only one that logs on using a computer with no hard drive, boots from a live CD, and runs off of 'borrowed' wifi?
:runaway:
 

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Here is another guy that doesn't want the 'Black Box':

This Nov. 2, 2011 file photo shows the state-owned Ford driven by Lt. Gov. Timothy P. Murray sitting on a flatbed truck at the Massachusetts State Police barracks in Holden, Mass. Murray initially said he wasn't speeding and that he was wearing his seat belt when he crashed the car. But the Ford Crown Victoria's data recorder told a different story: It showed the car was traveling over 100 mph and Murray wasn't belted in.

Government calls for mandatory "black boxes" in new cars, raising privacy concerns - CBS News

I know, a politician not telling the truth....
 

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It does appear that owners buy and pay for Event Data Recorders that they cannot choose or refuse and whose value to the purchaser is questionable.
 

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It does appear that owners buy and pay for Event Data Recorders that they cannot choose or refuse and whose value to the purchaser is questionable.
What if the EDR exonerated you in a crash?
 

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What if the EDR exonerated you in a crash?
Myself, I get it that the data recorded could work either way. The problem is, who owns the data? Who decides when and where it is read, and who gets copies of it?

How do we know the data is accurate? I haven't been pulling samples of it for testing or calibration or anything. Back in the day, a lot of people got out of speeding tickets when the department couldn't prove that the cruiser speedo or radar gun hadn't been calibrated lately. I read that Florida is having a difficult time prosecuting DUIs because the software in their breathalyzer has been challenged, but the manufacturer won't allow anyone to review the source code for accuracy.

Like most evidence, expert interpretation would be required in every case. That scares me a bit because it's a lot easier to manipulate simple data than say, a picture of a tire skidmark or a picture of a rumpled guard rail.

If the data shows that I've contributed to an accident but didn't break any laws, can the data help someone sue me? Can I buy insurance against that?

It's a lot of tough questions, and I don't see much out of the industry or the lawmakers other than an emphasis on getting the data first and figuring out the goldrush later.
 

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What if


Today a data recorder exonerates you, next week you receive a ticket by mail because while you were traveling in the city of "Traffic Light Cameras" a RF unit reads your data recorder and finds you traveling 38-mph in a 35-mph zone.
Use caution what you wish for, you might get it!
 

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What in the world does all that have to do with a black box as per the original question?

I would also be interested in getting rid of the black box or blocking its ability to record. I believe it is an invasion of privacy, and from what I understand it has already been used in/by law suites, insurance companies, and law enforcement for purposes other than the original "safety" reasons intended.

As for messing with the electronics. What if they want to add/or improve the bells and whistles. I did that to bring up to my taste. As many others have pointed out the HK system in these cars is laking for being a premium choice...If these cars where Rolls Royces I would agree that they shouldn't be messed with, but they are not. So to each their own. I replaced my stereo/amp/speakers and it sounds amazingly better than the stock HK unit.
From what I read in an article today, the NHTSA is requesting that such "black boxes" be standard (a legal requirement) from 2014 forward. So you need to buy NOW, because as of the next model year, if this goes through, it will surely be illegal to disable any such equipment. The suggestion of a previous poster may be best- a 1980 or earlier vehicle. I suggest a 1978 Buick Special. You will then learn the truth of "Having is not so pleasing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." (Spock to T'Pring in Amok Time)

Anyhow, it's all for the best, here in the Village. Be seeing you......
 

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The recorder is part of the car and therefore is property of the owner of the vehicle. In the US, property cannot be taken without a warrant and evidence against you has to have the paper trail.

And the red light cameras can't be used against you unless the company operating the camera system has an investigator license. Same holds true for any security camera system. Most cities that use the camera system can't put judgement against your license because it cannot be used as evidence. So, the company that runs the system just sends you a bill. If you don't pay, they report it to the credit bureau as being under collection. Its a revenue scheme and always has been. The cities only get a portion of the collected "fine".
 

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Once an insurance company pays claim on a destroyed auto is it not their property? Will they then load EDR info into the database they collectively use. Do not insurance companies research credit history when issuing policies?
 

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Before.....

.....I would tamper with any such thing, namely, the BLACK BOX, I would read my insurance policy fine-print, as I am sure it would say something akin to "you are not covered if there is evidence of tampering, disconnecting and/or removal of any components that could be used to store data during a collision."

Furthermore, you may actually subject yourself to fines if removing or tampering said device(s) is in any way illegal within your state of residence or is in any way felonious-activity.:17:

Would "they" find out?
Of course, when you have your vehicle inspected and they check for the diagnostic codes. Do you plan on not having your vehicle inspected any more, or purchasing a "hot" inspection sticker every year?
 
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