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Formerly 04 Outback 3.0R VDC, now 2011 Mitsubishi Pajero GLS DiD
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Discussion Starter #1
Well I was just reading a review of the X3's and wonder how everyone thinks they compare to the new Outbacks, especially the 3.0R vs the 3 litre X3. It would seem to me the Outback wins on just about every ground, better equiped for less money, much lighter (1540kg Outback Vs 1765kg BMW), more power (180kW vs 170kW) equal ground clearance, better fuel economy (10.9 l/100km Vs 12.1, better turning circle (10.7m Vs 11.7), higher top speed (221 km/h Vs 210km/h).. About the only area the BMW would be better is shorter front and read overhangs... Well that's my 2c worth, what does everyone else think?
 

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I haven't done the comparison myself, but assuming your evaluation is accurate, I'd take the Outback. I'm a big BMW fan (at least I was before Chris Bangle came along!) but most of what I've heard about the X3 seems to indicate a lot of the driving poise BMW is famous for is missing from the X3. It just doesn't have the magic.

The X3 would probably have better resale value and has a more upscale image than a Subaru. Otherwise I don't see any reason to buy it over a 3.0R.

Now, if you were comparing it to a 325xi - I'd certainly prefer the BMW there!

rjl
 

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zumdish said:
The X3 would probably have better resale value and has a more upscale image than a Subaru. Otherwise I don't see any reason to buy it over a 3.0R.
But the X3 says "BMW" on it! It has to be better than some lousy Subaru! :rolleyes:

Well thats what most brand name buyers would percieve :25: I mean I'm obviously biased towards Subaru, still theres the mindset among most that any German car is worlds better than anything else. That is no doubt changing very rapidly, the new Outback can compare to and honestly beat out most Eurowagons in just about every category.

The hard part is getting people to listen to reason rather than having them buy on impulses and naive misconceptions :banghead:

BTW, I'm not trying to slam any BMW, Mercedes, etc owners... :)

Just ranting :soapbox: :p
 

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Tokyo's between my toes
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Well for one thing, the BMW is a Mobile Blind Spot and the OB isn't. When you're behind an OB, you can still see the road ahead. The BMW does not extend that courtesy.

I'd like to know how how the interior space compares between the two vehicles. Also other points like ease-of-entry, reading the instruments, etc.

My brother-in-law is a BMW worshipper, drives a 7-series and can't get enough of it. He used to drive a 5-series but it had so many expensive mechanical problems that even he gave up on it.
 

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Hero Boots said:


The hard part is getting people to listen to reason rather than having them buy on impulses and naive misconceptions :banghead:

Good luck. For the most part, it isn't going to happen. Any time you begin to look at an automobile as something more than a transportation appliance, intangibles such as image are going to enter the equation. While it's possible for a value brand to acquire a performance image (and Subaru has been successful here) it's nearly impossible to shift the image of a value-oriented brand to one of prestige. No matter how good the Outback gets, it won't be able to compete with haughty Euro-snob appeal. It required the creation of Acura, Lexus and Infinity for the Japanese to be competitive in these segments.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Zumdish I agree about perceptions, I was a very avid BMW driver for many years and loved them for years even before I ever drove one, just based on the image. I've managed to outgrow that phase now thankfully, partly because I've seen first hand that ANY car, now matter what it's image, is just a car, will always have imperfections of one kind or other. Partly because some of BMW's designs now are downright ugly.

Here in Australia at least, the Japanese luxury brands are still struggling to create a perception of luxury, most people I know look at a Lexus RX330 and just see it as a rebadged better looking Toyota Highlander/Kluger, same goes for the IS200 and Corolla. Mazda's attempt at luxury with Eunos failed dismally despite making some good cars.

Regarding the interior space, the BMW is wider but not as long, unfortunately Subaru don't give interior dimensions on their website as BMW does. The BMW stands 120mm (5 inches almost) taller for the same (in Australia at least) ground clearance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
BMW has space saver spare!

Well I just read that the X3 has only a space saver spare, how can anyone venture more than a short distance off road with that as their only backup in case of a puncture? Did they make a space saver spare that can cope with off road conditions?? :eek:
 

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zumdish said:
Good luck. For the most part, it isn't going to happen. Any time you begin to look at an automobile as something more than a transportation appliance, intangibles such as image are going to enter the equation. While it's possible for a value brand to acquire a performance image (and Subaru has been successful here) it's nearly impossible to shift the image of a value-oriented brand to one of prestige. No matter how good the Outback gets, it won't be able to compete with haughty Euro-snob appeal. It required the creation of Acura, Lexus and Infinity for the Japanese to be competitive in these segments.
Zumdish I totally agree with everything you've just said. I dont' think Subaru should even consider getting into the Acura, Infiniti, etc. type of market. They don't need to as their cars are just about up that standard already anyway.

Jondalar said:
Zumdish I agree about perceptions, I was a very avid BMW driver for many years and loved them for years even before I ever drove one, just based on the image. I've managed to outgrow that phase now thankfully, partly because I've seen first hand that ANY car, now matter what it's image, is just a car, will always have imperfections of one kind or other. Partly because some of BMW's designs now are downright ugly.
Karl I went though that stage in high school, one of my best friends had a very wealthy family and for his 17th birthday his father bought him a Hummer. I'm not kidding either, it was a 1997 Hummer Wagon with a ton of money dumped into it for all this fancy junk. Anyway he kinda sucked me in to the high class automobile world and I became obsessed with Mercedes, Bentley, Lambo, Ferrari, and every other high end car. Well after swindling myself into various test drives I found that many of these cars are no doubt outstanding although there are still a ton of "lesser" cars out there that are just as good for the most part for fractions of the cost. Hence my opinion that there is no need to buy a car such as this other than to be able to say that, "I drive/own a Benz, etc." Its just a friggin' machine people! :p
 

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Hi.

I'm new to the board and found this topic pretty interesting as something similar happened with me.

I had been searching for a new car but wasn't really sure what I wanted. I gravitated toward the new Acura TL and had briefly looked at the Infiniti G35 Sedan.

I had never even considered a Subaru - not that I ever thought anything was wrong with them - it was just a brand that wasn't on my radar screen.

In the back of my mind, I liked the idea of a sport wagon but wasn't sure what to get. I also thought about an SUV but they're too big for what I wanted. I considered the Volvo.

I went and looked at the Mazda 6 wagon (which I determined wasn't for me) While on the lot , I stepped backward and bumped into the Outback sedan (2005). Wow! This was a beautiful car. High end finish on the interior and exterior. Nice lines. Did they have a sport wagon? Sure enough they did. I took one for a test drive and the rest is history.

I ended up getting an '05 LL Bean wagon (Atlantic Blue Pear/Gray) and just love it. I couldn't be happier. In my opinion, the fit and finish was as good as the "higher end" cars I had looked at and cost less. Not to mention it drives like a dream.

I would recommend an Outback in a heartbeat.
 

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I would recommend an Outback in a heartbeat.:D
i would prefer outback if i was going offroad but x3 better performance with most of the power mgoing to the rear
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I haven't driven an X3 at all, but from what I've read the Outback 3.0R would be a better performance car on road, it's got more power and weighs less, centre of gravity is lower. Not to mention the XT would be even faster! :D
 

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Hero Boots said:
But the X3 says "BMW" on it! It has to be better than some lousy Subaru! :rolleyes:
My thought exactly!

BMW X3 is for posers. Subaru Outback for people with a brain. :D

Escher
 

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I've just spent a total of 6 hours tinting and pulling apart the new X3.
I also had to pick it up.....all I can say is that this prestige maker has it so far ahead of Subaru it ain't funny.

It went like the clappers and I had to wonder that it didn't have a V8 in it. The sound finally gave it away that it was indeed a tough 6.

The build quality is absolutely 110% and the panel fit and degree of quality again is outstanding. Not a rattle, not a noise, everything fitted like a glove and design detail is so far ahead it doesn't even compare.

Internally it felt a bit bigger, the seats were fantastic. I felt as though I had more of a commanding view out of it than the new Outback. The styling was excellent and to top it off with GPS, dual power tint roofs with the most amazing solar cover you'll ever see, brilliant side steps, reverse parking sensors...aaaahhh the list goes on.
Rob.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Rob,

Thanks for your take on the X3, very interesting. One thing I find strange is that independent tests have shown the 3.0R Outback to be significantly faster than even the 3.0L X3, let alone the 2.5L I can't agree about the difference in fit and finish, while I haven't driven an X3 I have owned 3 new 3 series and a 540i over the years and I have to say that fit and finish wise my Subaru would beat any of them. The interior design is almost on a par with the current 3 series.

Then if you compare price an X3 such as you drove is at least $30,000 more than the top of the range Outback.

Finally I think the X3 is ugly, now if someone wanted to swap me for a V8 X5 I'd be very tempted :D (Of course, that would be worth more than double what the Outback is..)
 

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alright you Subie syncophants...:D get over your Freudian BMW envy already :D :D

Rob is right, BMWs still are great cars despite the misguided souls who buy them for style or image or anything besides how well they work. i've seen the quality of interiors deteriorate steadily, even as between different years of older ones like 2002s. but it's really hard to fault the engineering. they're still great cars (don't tell my 2002 i said that...)

of course, as Karl notes, for $30K over the OB, it OUGHT to offer more advantages than it does. honestly, if i could afford it, i might still drive a V70XC or 325ix over the OB. but prolly not. now, graft an OB AWD drivetrain into a gutted 2002 chassis with a BMW motor....:D :D

perrito enfermo
 

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tinter said:


The build quality is absolutely 110% and the panel fit and degree of quality again is outstanding. Not a rattle, not a noise, everything fitted like a glove and design detail is so far ahead it doesn't even compare.
Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. Imo the interior is average, the quality of materials is especially poor. The plastics on the dash look and feel like primary school plastic chairs. It costs A$80,000+ on the road (2.5), then you need to spend another $20,000 to make up for the features and accessories an A$80,000 car should have. And just like MB, BMW's reliability is questionable.

Again, just my opinion, but I think it's a car for badge snobs, not for people who want the best car.
 

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I think it's a car for badge snobs, not for people who want the best car.
hey, i'll be the first to agree that about 90-95+% of the X3 and X5 owners are badge snobs, posers and social climbers. as an owner of older BMWs, i often detest drivers of "new" bimmers, but that don't take away from the car. if you'd ever been to a BMW club "track day", you'd see that this isn't the case with all BMW owners by a long shot. their cars are fast, and they're well built and engineered. can't say the same for many of their owners.... and the cars stand up to having the snot flogged out of them.

it's not badge snobbery that causes an E46 M3 to make 110 hp/liter and lap racetracks as fast as a Z06 or 911, it's good engineering......think even an STI or XT would run in that league? i don't.

IMHO, and love for the products of both marques...... (nomex suit in place, he awaits the flames...)
 

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FWIW, Consumer Reports (Dec. 2004) rated the Outback 2.5i higher than the X3 (2.5 litre six).

This is where I first read about the Outback's relatively weak braking numbers.
 

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uh, this would be the same Condemner Reports that rated the handling of the 1st gen MR2 and/or the X1/9 as "unacceptable" because they change direction too easily?? ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

not that i don't agree with their conclusion on this one, but CR tends to be staffed by the sort of folk you're complaining abt in the other thread who'd rather not have cars at all, decidedly NOT car enthusiasts. they test for Transportation Appliance.....very different considerations than the enthusiast rags. i consider their input but don't consider it the One Truth by any means
 

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True, which is why I qualified it by saying for what it's worth. However, their numbers on the bad braking distance has been corraborated elsewhere (i.e C&D).
 
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