Subaru Outback Forums banner
1 - 20 of 419 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey,
New to Subaru's, but an experienced wrencher.
I am looking at a 2001 2.5 with 100k miles.
The PO had it overheat on him, and his shop told her it was the HG.
He does not want to deal with the cost, so I am thinking about taking it off him for a reasonable price.
Looking thru the bills, I see no mention of the Subaru Coolant Conditioner ever having been added.
Is it worth trying to add the conditioner at this stage?
 

·
Meh.
I has wagons.
Joined
·
12,360 Posts
At about $3 it is worth a shot, but I expect if the HG is already failing it will not do much.

That being said, for an experienced wrencher a HG + timing belt goodies job is not too bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
He said it overheated twice within a few days, then has not done it since.
Do you think I should add the conditioner and try to drive it the 10 miles home?

I have not done a ton of searches yet, but are the gen Subaru HG's better than the aftermarket?
I read that the engine is best to come out to do this job, but is it really needed?
What is the laundry list of parts best changed at this mileage?
I have the timing belt, and water pump in mind for starters..
 

·
Registered
1999 30th Anniversary Legacy Outback DOHC 2.5L 4EAT, 2008 Impreza WRX 2.5L 5MT, 2008 Impreza Wagon 2.5L 4EAT
Joined
·
1,224 Posts
I would change the oil and try the conditioner. Depending on how bad it was overheated the bottom end bearings could be on borrowed time.

I would do the HGs (Subaru ONLY) Timing Idlers, cam & front crankshaft seals, valve cover gaskets, reseal the oil pump have the heads gone over and check the valve clearances and new plugs, as well as what you mentioned. Oh, Subaru only thermostat too!

You can do the work with the engine in the car, but many prefer to remove the engine as it makes it much easier and perhaps a better quality job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,806 Posts
Any car these days could be done when you run it hot. If you buy it from her assume the worst case - that you'll be putting a new engine in it and consider that part of the final value your placing on the car. Just so you know my 2001 legacy GT limited 100% working with proper HG issue delt with by Subaru and the proper coolant maint - along with timing belt maint with ZERO leaks and running like a swiss watch at 160K with a dent in the driver door $1000 to fix netted me $1200 at the trade in with tires that had another 25K easy on them. So you shouldn't be paying any more than $1000 for that car as is. If you are keep looking. Given a full and proper engine replacement with zero worries and adding many years to the cars life will run you $2000 by the time its said and done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Awesome Mike..
This car is for a teenager in the house to take away to College in the fall, so I need it done right!
I am not afraid, and am equipped to pull the motor if its easier.
I have a ramp, hoist and engine stand here at home.
I am off out today to find a Haynes manual, so I can begin familiarizing myself with the Boxer Motor.
We are picking up the car tomorrow and I think the price is fair... a little more than half what they sell for around here.
I will check and feel the oil.... there was no evidence of oil or exhaust smell in the coolant BTW. No sign of coolant dripping from the exhaust on under the car.
It started first time, did not misfire or stumble, and was quiet and smooth. I drove it maybe 2 miles and it felt and sounded fine, and did not overheat.
Warm and at idle it sounded like a sewing machine.
I am working on the fact it will need the HG, and associated work.
The other stuff it needs... the drivers front fender is slightly tweeked, and the PO said it need front brakes soon.
Service history goes back 6 years with this owner, and it has had its 100k service, and tires are recent, and good.
Pic.


I feel this is in my sweet spot... buy a car that needs the work done and is price adjusted, rather than one that either was done, and you dont know what the issue was or pay full price and STILL have to do it!
I am not working so I have time to do this, and hand the car over knowing that it is about as good as I could wish!

So here is my list so far..
Pull motor.
Subaru HG, and all the seals etc.
Head bolt set... I assume TTY headbolts?
Have the heads checked and valves refaced.
Did I read somewhere taht the valve clearances are with shims?:(
Inspect Cylinder and measure bores for lip and wear.
Pull oil pan and inspect main and rod bearings..
Waterpump, thermostat, radiator flush, and new hoses coolant and conditioner.
Maybe with all the seals renewed, swap over to synthetic oil?
Plugs, and HT leads, oil and filter.
Its an Auto, so no clutch to renew... I will do a fluid change... is there a filter?

Recent projects...
Swapped a 2003 Accord Motor for a friend of my son who decided his Accord was ok to drive offroad at speed...
Until a perfectly placed rock did a number on the Oil pan.... and as if that was not bad enough, he kept driving it and ignored the smoke and warning lamps until the motor seized!
:mad:
The evidence...


Dead motor out...


Local mechanic wanted 6k for a rebuilt motor, so I found a used one with 66k miles.
Here the "new motor" is mated with Trans and ready to pull back up and in!

Ready to pull back in...

Then last week I help my younger son do a transmission swap on his '92 Civic.... god, I hate that car... but he loves it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,806 Posts
Amazing what kids will do to cars and break when they aren't covering the tab and doing the repair work them selves. I broke my car once being a dumb kid- amazing how that same car went another 160,000 miles without so much as a burp after that. LOL

My cousin was the worst and he was paying for the wrecked cars him self. But after the last one nearly cost him his house he figured it out and shockingly has owned the same two cars for well over 5yrs now without so much as a dent added to them.

You'll do well with the subaru though once you get it fixed up tell your kid everything from then on comes right out of his own pocket. I bet that OB shows back up at your house 8yrs from now running nearly as good as the day you got it all sorted out and turned over to the kid, LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the input Subiesailor.
I get what you are saying, but where I live rust is not an issue, and values are still high.
The fender damage means I would need replacing and the bumper is scuffed too, but its a teenagers car...
He has a history of "parking mistakes" and also a Surfer, who will be going "offroad" to get to his spots... so desert pinstrips will be a feature..
In other words.. I am gonna get my PDR glue puller on it, pull it out as best I can and say thats good enough!

I am off out to get the manual, and grab some Conditioner, and parts prices from the local Subaru Dealer for gaskets etc..

I think I am gonna pop in the conditioner, and let it idle for 30 mins as I have read... If it does not show signs of overheating I am gonna gently make my way home with my eyes keenly on the Temp gauge... any signs of distress and it will be on a AAA towtruck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,806 Posts
The leak is external and you won't see it given its right over the hot exhaust it evaporates long before leaving any obvious clues if it over heated then no doubt the HG is done the coolant additive will not fix it. I went through the same thing with mine only I by random luck found the leak before ever hitting the over heat point.

Just schedule the time to yank the engine and do the proper job. Running it with the over heat issue is just asking for a new engine in short order. Mine had the HG done at 65K all they did was pop the head toss the new gasket on and put it back on. Given the low miles and zero over heat issue the very - very short compact heads are very resistant to warping to start with they said it was a non issue. At 160,000 miles it ran like new and was 100% leak free.

Don't even mess with the additive at this point its a waste of $6 trust me. Add it after you do the gasket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Don't even mess with the additive at this point its a waste of $6 trust me. Add it after you do the gasket.
Got it, and thanks!

It just occured to me that if the dropping coolant level had not been noticed(Does it have a low coolant light?) the lack of coolant could have triggered the overheat?
I am set to do the gasket, just interested to know if it will drive home ok..
Silly question... if I take the VIn to the dealer, would they tell me any service history? I know it had the new cat installed under the recall..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,806 Posts
Got it, and thanks!

It just occured to me that if the dropping coolant level had not been noticed(Does it have a low coolant light?) the lack of coolant could have triggered the overheat?
I am set to do the gasket, just interested to know if it will drive home ok..
Silly question... if I take the VIn to the dealer, would they tell me any service history? I know it had the new cat installed under the recall..

I know that subaru is just now getting their systems set up so dealers can see history on the car when it had work done by other dealers so my guess is only if the dealer did it they would have record but wouldn't know otherwise.

By the way Toyota now has full system ability the details they had on my 93 landcruiser was really cool. The original owner we bought it from was a woman and she had three folders stuffed with every single dealer service by the book Plus some. So I knew it had an extensive history. But when the CA dealer told me he had records from all the way back to 93 and going from CA - Texas - to Mane that was really impressive.

I know as of last year subaru was not there yet but the dealer said it would be soon a year or so and he had hope they too would have that ability.
 

·
Meh.
I has wagons.
Joined
·
12,360 Posts
Things that will be best if they say "Subaru" on the parts box:
-Newest HGs (should be the multi-layer steel type)
-Thermostat (Stant suck in these cars)
-Coolant and coolant additive (in case any issues pop up later)
-Plug wires (some aftermarkets fit good, others do not. I stick with OEM)
-ATF filter (most aftermarket ones are just correspondingly sized oil filters, Subaru actually has a different ATF filter)

-Plugs should be NGK
-ATF - 3 or 4 drain and fills of a good Dex III. I like Maxlife ATF myself.
-Diff fluids- any good 80w90

Check out our Do It Yourself forum. There are pictoral threads of the HG, timing belt, plugs, diffs, atf, etc. The 2000-04 models are basically identical to work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I grabbed a Haynes manual at Pep boys... and 2 containers of Conditioner from the local Subaru dealer.
Downloaded most of the service manual for the engine... and will get the rest over the next 10 years!:gasp:

Dealer was kinda "off" when I got prices for parts and said I was doing the work myself...
Where is the "Best price" OEM Subaru parts prices?
 

·
Registered
1999 30th Anniversary Legacy Outback DOHC 2.5L 4EAT, 2008 Impreza WRX 2.5L 5MT, 2008 Impreza Wagon 2.5L 4EAT
Joined
·
1,224 Posts
Buying parts online from 1stsubaruparts.com or subarupartsforyou.com have worked for me. Usually not worth the shipping cost if you are buying one small thing but for your order, would make sense. Check out those sites.

Since it is going to be a going away to college car I would pull the engine and do the job now so it won't be a problem later. You seem to have the skills/place/time/equipment to do the job now. Read the DIYs as mentioned above, really help. You have a SOHC that is easier than the DOHC.

The overheat was likely due to low coolant from a small leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for that.
I already had the one site bookmarked and started on my shopping cart.
1stsubaruparts site seems to be down or dead... the home page is ok, but parts catalog says expired page.

We are leaving in an hour to pickup the car... so fingers crossed.
As soon as the paperwork is done I will pop the conditioner in and warm it up.
Will post when I get home... either it will drive or arrive on a truck!

What is everyone using for coolant?
I have always used Xerex in my Mercedes, and that is a recommended coolant... I doubt that Subaru developed their own, so theirs is just repackaged and priced up!
I have no doubts in my mind the motor is gonna have the HG's done, I downt want the stress or angst of a major overheat or breakdown as the Teen involved is... Um... how do I put this delicately... "Oblivious to mechanical maladies"... eg, he drove my mercedes Diesel for 2 days with the parking brake on...

I am concerned about the condition of the crank and rod bearings...
Now, after a little light reading, and being a little more familiar with the Boxer motor I see how its much more involved, and you can't pop off a bearing cap or rod cap and inspect the bearing surfaces.
If there was no coolant dilution, they should be fine, but at 100k miles is it wise to go the whole hog and strip and inspect?
I have done this in the past, where for the sake of being a perfectionist, I have pulled a motor apart because of a oil consumption issue at 80k miles(OEM oil control rings were substandard), and seen slight bearing wear, so put a new bearings and piston ring set in after a slight rehone.. Its been my experience that this has tightened up the oil clearances and the engine then ran another 120k until I sold it and went another 50 k until the car was scrapped due to rust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
She is on the drive!
I put the conditioner in, but as soon as I started it I knew it was not gonna work.
Bubbles and foam forming in the overflow tank told me the gasket has blown into a coolant passage, and was gonna pressurize the cooling system.
I drove away from the PO and made it 5 miles before the temp spiked.
A call to AAA and it was on the flatbed and on the way home within 45 mins.
 

·
Registered
2002 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L
Joined
·
22 Posts
I did the HG on my 2002 last July. I got most of the parts (timing belt, tensioners, idlers, water pump, etc) from "subarupartsforyou.com". But I got the multi-layer HG kit from "AllWheelDriveAuto.com". You can browse that website for repair information. If you want to stick with the Subaru HG, check with "subarupartsforyou.com" to see if it is multi-layer. They are very responsive. Best of luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Do you need to replace the Head Bolts?

I am reading that the A/C needs to be depressurized and removed, but there looks to be enough rubber hose to rotate it to one side... am I correct?

Couple of pics from the "Ride Home" yesterday...



 

·
Registered
2002 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L
Joined
·
22 Posts
I reused the old head bolts. "AllWheelDriveAuto.com" does not think it's necessary. I know these are TTY bolts. The shop manual does not say anything about replacing them. I believe most if not all Subaru dealers just reuse the existing bolts. But if you want peace of mind, by all means, get new ones (<$100 for the whole set). Now I am not sure if the same torquing numbers apply though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I read thru the service manual and the haynes, and found no mention of using new bolts OR a stretch check measurement...
I did the HG on my son's mercedes 300E twice in the last 2 years due to a faulty HG, and they give you a service limit dimension... we replaced the bolts both times as they were like $30.
 
1 - 20 of 419 Posts
Top