[Timberwolf99]

Have you rotated the crank after install and before taking the pictures, if not i think you might have the belt back to front, the marks look right on the pulleys but the marks on the belt are no where near right. All marks on the belt should line up with the marks on the pulleys. Can't even be one tooth out.

Double check before you pull the granade pin.

 

[Keyoutback]

That is why I posted pics... I wanted to check.

The arrows on the belt say I have it mounted correctly... assuming that the engine rotates clockwise when viewed from the front of the engine...

This Gates belt only has one white line on it and it is NOT over the timing mark... it is offset.
Difficult to explain in words... but here is a pic of my previous belt from P16 of this thread..
Clearly shows the belt mark is over the pulley mark and tooth...



Yet on this new Gates belt the belt mark is offset and more on the pulley notch/valley...



I am planning to count the teeth on the new and old belt and mark the cam notches on the new belt.

 

[Timberwolf99]

I am planning to count the teeth on the new and old belt and mark the cam notches on the new belt.

Yeah that's what I'd do also double check the rotation direction I haven't really payed attention to which way they rotate.

 

[Keyoutback]

Update.

Rotation of the EJ25 is clockwise when viewed from the front.
Belt direction was correct, and as I set it up last time.

I counted the teeth on the old belt and marked the cam marks on the new belt, and it was good.
It did have me confused, as the new belt, it was offset..

Here are some more pics that tell the story.
Old belt in foreground.







I checked and double checked, and was happy, so pulled the pin, and spun the motor around, with no issues.

Its almost ready to go back in... maybe tomorrow.

 

[Timberwolf99]

Good to hear.

 

[Keyoutback]

Engine is back in the car.









Got as far as the trans to engine bolts and the dreaded flexplate to TC bolts and called it a wrap for the day!

 

[ds2992]

I think i saw your problem on the tbelt. The marking in the 2nd pic of post 284 shows a dashed line with a bunch of arrows pointing clockwise. That marking is the timing mark for the crank pulley (the dashed line). I've had 3gates timing kits all work fine but on 2 of them the marks were slightly off to one side of the mark on the pulleys. I just lined them all up accordingly.

 

[Timberwolf99]

F

I think i saw your problem on the tbelt. The marking in the 2nd pic of post 284 shows a dashed line with a bunch of arrows pointing clockwise. That marking is the timing mark for the crank pulley (the dashed line). I've had 3gates timing kits all work fine but on 2 of them the marks were slightly off to one side of the mark on the pulleys. I just lined them all up accordingly.

That's what I thought might have been the problem also, but didn't see the rest of the belt so couldn't make a comment on it being the problem.

 

[Keyoutback]

Ahhhh... Ok, I guess I got that bit wrong then!

Well, guess what... the engine is in and running!

 

[johnson]

Thanks for posting those earlier pictures of the Fel-Pro HG rivets on the engine, glad to see there was no conflicts. And glad to hear the engine is back in and running. If possible, would mind answering the following:

1. You mentioned a possible oil leak towards the rear of the engine, did you pinpoint the source? I believe you changed the rear main seal and resealed the separator plate the first time, I'm curious if one of those items started leaking again, or was it something different?

2. Did you machine the heads this time? Did you reuse the head bolts, or use new ones?

3. What coolant did you use? Did you include the conditioner (stop leak) this time?

I know I'll be doing this job again before too long. I'm hoping I can use these Fel-Pros and get away with not machining the heads. I've seen it mentioned that these MLS gaskets require smoother surfaces than the composite gaskets.

Thank you in advance for the reply and you are an inspiration to all older Suby owners to keep the torch burning.

 

[Keyoutback]

Let me answer your questions first before I give the update...

1/
I found the oils stain on the bottom of the transmission, but the was no sign of anything from the rear of the engine, either rear main seal nor plate.

2/
After a clean , and check, the heads both were fine, with no sign of warping or issues. The head finish is measured in "Ra" and I found info on how that translates into abrasive paper grade. The Felpro gaskets say "Up to 60Ra", which equates to 120grit finish, so I went 240 and called it good.
Here for info.
Surface Finish Charts : L.J. Star Incorporated

3/
I just used the locally available Prestone coolant, and no conditioner. My impression was that the conditioner was a crutch to prop up the older style graphite gaskets, so I didn't bother.

 

[Keyoutback]

So... here is the grim update.

The motor was in, sounded fine, and I did a 20 mile test drive to reset the computer ready for its smog test.
I was still waiting for the "CAT" and "EVAP" tests to reset, so that the smog station would not fail it. I headed home and was cruising at 45mph, when the engine suddenly made a weird noise and died. I pulled over, and checked oil and then restarted it. The was a metallic knock at any more that 2000rpm.
Called for a tow.:frown2:

Back home, when it was cold, I went through some checks.
Rechecked my timing belt positions and they were good.
Valve clearances were fine.
Compression was good and within spec, considering its 162,000 miles.
1: 176psi
2: 175psi
3: 174psi
4: 170psi
Factory spec is 185 new with as low as 156 allowable, and no more than 7psi variance, so it was good.
Restarting the engine, it fires right up and at idle it sound nice at idle. Oil pressure was good, but the harsh knock at 2000rpm is clearly a rod bearing. My bet is on #4 as that would explain its slightly lower compression.
Draining the oil confirmed my suspicion, a slight metallic tint to the 20 mile old oil. No chunks tho.:laugh:

I set out to fix this engine, and did have concerns about what damage had been done by the 2 recent major overheating episodes, but figured that all I was risking was a pair of head gaskets, some oil and my energy.
At the moment I am planning to pull the motor out this week, and blow it apart, and see how bad it is.

So, this thread will continue as I investigate options.
Watch this space!

 

[Keyoutback]

The plan was and is to see what the damage is before I do anything.

So, today, I pulled it back out again...



After resting my body for a couple of hours, I ripped into the motor.


Wow, these HG's look almost perfect!
:wink2:





And there it is..
There is about 1/16"(1.5mm) or less of movement in #3.
Here it is with the piston pushed all the way up at TC on #3.


And then pushed down by hand.


Not much... But enough.
Tomorrow I will TIG weld a 14mm bolt and Nut together to extract the wrist pin plugs and break the motor completely apart!

 

[bheinen74]

these things don't take to overheat that many times, and not be a boat anchor block.

I am sure once you split the block you will find the real damage done while it was overheating.

Splitting the block is interesting to say the least. All new bearings and this things will be a good engine and not a boat anchor anymore.
goodluck

you are getting practiced up at pulling and installing these by now, and then the fun starts all over on the next car...

 

[eshekari]

I commend your determination, you seem like a pretty good wrench. In all honesty did you really think there wasn't going to be any damage after 2 major over heating episodes?

Looking forward to you splitting the block, haven't had a chance to tear down a boxer motor. Been beating on my poor 180k, original HG, hoping for it to pop soon so i have an excuse to tear into it...

 

[Keyoutback]

Thanks for the complements.:grin2:

Here was my logic.
Budget is tight, so investing in a timing belt, and headgasket kit at $300 was ok.
Of course, it was a risk, but as it was my energy and time, I figured if it ran ok, we would be ok, and if not, then all we actually lost was 2 headgaskets.

With 162k on the motor already, I knew it was in its senior years.

Motor is apart.
I have a big update coming soon.:|

 

[Keyoutback]

The motor is apart and it is not so pretty... but pretty interesting...

Now, in looking at what I am about to post, keep in mind...
1/ HG was done at 106k miles when we acquired the car in 2011. That HG was leaking on #2 cylinder.
2/ HG 2 went on #1 cylinder at 162,000 miles. Oil was contaminated with coolant. Compression and oil pressure was within spec. HG was changed, oil and compression was good after replacement
3/ Engine ran great for 20 miles, and then stalled out., Rod know evident.

Here is the oil I drained out...:surprise:



I knew what to expect for here in.

Oil pan evidence.


Close up.


Started to split the case...


Pistons out and rags used to protect the bores from the rods.


Split.

 

[Keyoutback]

Now to pull the crank assembly apart.

Naturally I went straight to #3... and I was not disappointed!
Removed the cap, and the bearing is spun 90deg.



One half came out freely, but the other was stuck(welded) to the rod. It did come loose when I wiggled it.



That #3 crank pin is not pretty.


I removed #1 rod and it was ok, but plenty of evidence of bearing scoring.


#2 was a surprise tho... it had spun too, and the bearing was stuck on the crank journal.



With a little persuasion it came off..


#4 was pretty much as #1, ok, but scored.

 

[bheinen74]

wow that stuff is varnished bad.

how many miles on oil changes?

 

[Keyoutback]

So, there it is.
I posted this for educational purposes, so we can all learn what can happen.

Now I am into options mode.
I have the crank on the bench and my micrometer set out, and will go thru it and see what the measurements are.






My initial observations are that the crank main bearings are within spec, but on the lower end, so 10 under will fix them.

The rod pins will depend on #3... there is a lot of transferred metal on the surface and it reading well oversize from stock. I will take it to and engine machine shop next week and see what they think.
#2 should clean up 10 under.

I am also concerned about the rods on #2 and especially #3.

#2 has some marks on it.
Rod side..


Cap side.


#3 is worse, of course.
Rod side.


Cap side.