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2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 4EAT
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Discussion Starter #1
I just had my steering rack replaced on my 08 outback under my gold plus warranty I picked the car up tonight and my brake pedal was mushy then my abs light came on and my pedal went all the way to the floor..plus there's a Err 55 message that reads where my trip odometer reads....what could this be? I sh*t my pants when I pressed my brakes and my car didn't stop...I also replaced my brakes 6months ago at 72k including the rotors and i had no problems
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Changing the steering gear on this car doesn't require any contact with the brake's hydraulic system, but if it was good when you took it in and bad when you picked it up, its either an error on the service tech's part or a really strange coincidence.

The car would have had a realignment after the rack replacement, so a test drive should have been the final chore and any abnormalities should have been noticed.

How many times did you brake before it went to the floor?

The error "55" is most likely "SS" and is related to a speed sensor at a wheel, so if they unhooked one and left it unhooked, or its not fully connected, it could cause and issue. In which case, the ABS module needs to be read for error codes to verify a fault in a sensor and if its one of the front wheels, there is a good chance it was due to an error by the tech.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My pedal kept going to the floor once my abs light went on...it was scary but I was a mile from my house, but before my car was serviced my brakes were fine
 

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When the ABS activates to prevent a wheel lock up, it opens a dump valve for the fluid to go back to the reservoir. If the speed sensor in question is sending false data due to a loose connection, the ABS will activate to prevent the lock up and in doing, the pedal can feel "mushy". Going to the floor could be the valve stayed open based on the data received.

It needs to be scanned for error codes and checked thoroughly. Find out what the tech removed/disconnected in doing the repair and go from there.

Have you tried the brake pedal after you parked at home? What is it like now?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I haven't tried it yet....I've had my abs light come on before and ive shut the car off and turned it back on and the light has gone off and I didn't have any problems
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm bringing it back now...let the dealer mess with it
 

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I had this happen, however under different circumstances. It is a bit freaky when your brake pedal goes to the floor and your car doesn't stop. Good training though for what to do next like use e-brake, turn off car while in gear, or just look for the softest safest spot to collide with ;)

Also agree with other posters; take it back to shop.
 

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the master cylinder has two stages to it for the primary reason of having a back up if the first stage fails for some reason. The ABS valve is for sure an interesting possibility given from the sounds of it your master cylinder could be OK and you could still have a case where the brake pressure is dumped if this Valve is acting up.

Report back on the shops findings - you won't be the only one who comes across this I'm sure of that. ;-)
 

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the master cylinder has two stages to it for the primary reason of having a back up if the first stage fails for some reason. The ABS valve is for sure an interesting possibility given from the sounds of it your master cylinder could be OK and you could still have a case where the brake pressure is dumped if this Valve is acting up.

Report back on the shops findings - you won't be the only one who comes across this I'm sure of that. ;-)
If this is the case then the NTSB should be notified, because this is a serious malfunction that could lead to deaths!
 

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If this is the case then the NTSB should be notified, because this is a serious malfunction that could lead to deaths!
If it were common yes - but with older cars you never know what type of use - maint and conditions might cause it which case NTSB really doesn't need to be informed. If it were a new vehicle yes. An old one with lots of unknowns not really. But given people like to hold on to their old subarus for a long time always good to post results of odd ball mechanical things so others can sort it out if they come across it.
 

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If it were common yes - but with older cars you never know what type of use - maint and conditions might cause it which case NTSB really doesn't need to be informed. If it were a new vehicle yes. An old one with lots of unknowns not really. But given people like to hold on to their old subarus for a long time always good to post results of odd ball mechanical things so others can sort it out if they come across it.
I disagree with this, if this valve can fail and cause someone to loose the breaks it is a serious problem, that is one of the reasons they made all car manufactures put dual master cylinders in cars, so if it fails you still have partial breaks! This valve failure sounds like a design flaw that should be brought to their attention. Their should not be any one part on a break system to cause the whole system to fail totally!
 

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I disagree with this, if this valve can fail and cause someone to loose the breaks it is a serious problem, that is one of the reasons they made all car manufactures put dual master cylinders in cars, so if it fails you still have partial breaks! This valve failure sounds like a design flaw that should be brought to their attention. Their should not be any one part on a break system to cause the whole system to fail totally!
Your assuming one failure in the case of the valve I'd bet that it involves multiple failures to cause this valve issue given as you pointed out the multi stage master cylinder is there for a reason. If the valve is the cause its probably due to multiple failures leading to this. No different than driving around with a low squishy brake pedal and a funny brake light that goes on and off on the dash at times then eventually having zero pressure given the second stage of the master cylinder which was in use and the only stage working finally failed etc.

Till the actual issue is known no sense in making it a Federal case LOL
 

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It is designed properly. If you look back at the posts, issues have happened prior giving fair warning and they were ignored. Given the nature of the failure and that when the key is turned off then on again the issue is gone, its electrical or electronic in nature.

Stop trying to blame fault on a manufacturer when the fault lies with ownership. If you ignore a stop sign and run through, getting hit in the process, you can't blame the sign or the maker. It's your fault. Same here. Something was happening prior to the visit for the steering and it was being ignored.
 

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I missed his post #5! Even if the ABS light comes on the braking system should keep working! The braking system on a vehicle should be of a fail safe system, which means when the system fails it is in a safe condition (ie being able to still apply brakes but maybe of a lessor force) not to totally loose the brakes while the car is still moving. The ABS system should just be in bypasses mode when the light activates and the brakes syem should still work!
Isn't this valve you are speaking of part of the ABS (Anti Lock Braking System)?
 

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I missed his post #5! Even if the ABS light comes on the braking system should keep working! The braking system on a vehicle should be of a fail safe system, which means when the system fails it is in a safe condition (ie being able to still apply brakes but maybe of a lessor force) not to totally loose the brakes while the car is still moving. The ABS system should just be in bypasses mode when the light activates and the brakes syem should still work!
Isn't this valve you are speaking of part of the ABS (Anti Lock Braking System)?
The most over engineered consumer products on the planet are vehicles and cell phones.

If enough parts fail eventually something stops working - when your ABS light comes on you check into it ASAP! You don't drive around for a year occasionally saying hmm I should check into that at some point but heck the car seems to be working OK so - on we go.

LOL nothing can be built with infinite number of fail safes.
 

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You are wrong about this and breaking systems.
When Westing House designed Air brakes it was mandatory for the brake system to be designed as a Fail Safe system. In the system you had to supply air to release the brakes not apply air to make them work.
As far as i know, the design of ABS (Anti Lock Brake Systems) are to fail in a non-operational mode (system does not operate the pulsing function) and the hydraulic braking system is to work as though no ABS on vehicle! If the light stays on the owner is to have the system repaired, if the owner does not have the system repaired the only thing that doesn't work is the ABS system!
Now you guys are saying because he didn't have t looked at and the possibility of the Wheel speed sensor not being installed or failing the system has had a catastrophic failure! This is definitely a design flaw by the rules of safety system design! If the ABS light requires this type of attention then the vehicle should not be able to be driven!
I have been designing fail safe system for many years, and I can assure you that their is something wrong in this stem of the design of this system!
 

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You are wrong about this and breaking systems.
When Westing House designed Air brakes it was mandatory for the brake system to be designed as a Fail Safe system. In the system you had to supply air to release the brakes not apply air to make them work.
As far as i know, the design of ABS (Anti Lock Brake Systems) are to fail in a non-operational mode (system does not operate the pulsing function) and the hydraulic braking system is to work as though no ABS on vehicle! If the light stays on the owner is to have the system repaired, if the owner does not have the system repaired the only thing that doesn't work is the ABS system!
Now you guys are saying because he didn't have t looked at and the possibility of the Wheel speed sensor not being installed or failing the system has had a catastrophic failure! This is definitely a design flaw by the rules of safety system design! If the ABS light requires this type of attention then the vehicle should not be able to be driven!
I have been designing fail safe system for many years, and I can assure you that their is something wrong in this stem of the design of this system!
Define Drama Queen for us. Might shed some light on your view on this subject.

No seriously if you think Subaru is different than all the other Auto makers out there in regards to this LOL -- your missing the bigger picture. As we have already pointed out.
 

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Tell me what warning were given before this happened, to cause no brakes?

I would also like to know what caused this problem! If a wheel sensor fails the system activates when it shouldn't be, but the car still has brakes.

I am just saying if others have had this it sound like a design error!
 
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