[tertius]

I've asked some questions on buying before. What do y'all think about this one?

Can I get a 2nd hand 3.6 Limited for much less than a new one and that be a better value? What about a 2.5 etc. etc.

Any opinions welcome

 

[subiesailor]

My rule is this. If the used car price is within $3500 of the new car then it makes no sense to buy Used especially if your financing either one.

If your paying cash and you know 100% that the used car is well cared for not beat on etc then paying $3500 less in cash makes sense.

I just replaced our old 7 passenger ride with a new one. Bought an 07 Sequoia all records private seller 64,000 miles in mint condition for $21,000. The new one in similar trim is almost $50,000 by the time you get it home. That purchase made sense

A used 2010 OB for something over 20K vs a brand new one for 25K base model kinda doesn't make sense especially if your doing a car loan with interest.

 

[GLwagon]

Just bought new bare bones 2013 2.5i CVT
2013 = new engine design, 2nd gen CVT, stiffer suspension.
1.9 APR helps too.

 

[tertius]

Refi with penfed, 1.49 APR.

 

[tertius]

Yeah I know it's an updated model. That ads to the difficulty of the choice yes...

 

[bradze]

i think the only reason to buy a used car is if you're looking for a specific model that isn't made anymore. so many of the "slightly used" cars out there are about as much or more than a new one. with a new one you get exactly what you want and you know the vehicle history. when buying a used car, you never know, those "highway miles" could involve homeless guys having sex with each other in the back after they stole it and cruised down the highway

 

[rasterman]

The point of buying used is to save some money by accepting some risk. The ratio of money saved to risks taken is your scoreboard.

If a given dealer isn't pricing the goods appropriately for the risks involved, look for another.

If Bradze's hypothetical rolling love nest could save you $10k, you'd come out ahead even after some major cleaning fees. If it only saved you $700, keep looking.

The key is in spotting the likelihood of risk, and then using it to negotiate a discount. If that's not for you, buy new and don't look back.

 

[rasterman]

The problem with buying a used car is that you don't know how it was driven by its previous owner. Each of us has its own driving patterns.

You've got me thinking....

Your statement above is true today. But it's not going to be long before the data gathering systems in cars are up to the point where a full driving history is recorded and could easily become a bargaining chip in used cars.

Sure, somebody could wipe the history, but the market will eventually decide if a wiped history = a 2% discount or 30% discount.

 

[GasGuzz]

My first new car was in ’76 and I’ve never bought a used car since. But that’s neither here/there, some folks never buy new. It’s all relative to personal valuation.<O</O
Any Used, even Certified, is As-Is with ‘no-history’, that’s why you don’t (hopefully) pay New for it. Risk factor, as Raster put it quite well. But is New without risk, absolutely not, taken from the ‘010 launch.<O</O
The problem with the OB, what version year is a safe bet, it’s only in MY13 where it’s being ironed out (and some sticking points are still there). Right now, the best Used deal is a heavily discounted New MY12.<O</O

 

[rasterman]

It depends what you understand as a "driving history". Is it recorded routes with speed and RPM data or something more detailed? It can potentially bring privacy law suits against such a data collection. Other thing what can be recorded without compromising privacy is an average driving pattern regardless of the trips made. The problem is how to quantify the combination of speed, RPM, gear ratio, engine load and other variables vs. time, mileage and wear / tear toll it takes on the engine, chassis, suspension and other parts of the vehicle. Though you can employ fuzzy logic or neural network algorithms for such quantification. I was thinking about this issue in order to create vehicle amortization and life span calculator. It's a costly proposition, because you will end up with hundreds sensors installed in the each critical location of the vehicle and connected to the computer to process and quantify massive amount of data.

Yes there are certainly some privacy minefields to work out. But it doesn't necessarily have to cost much more- today's cars are already littered with sensors. You don't absolutely have to add more, just do more with the data you're already getting for fuel, VDC, ABS, temps, etc.

The real trick will be making it encode & store that data with a very slow encryption system, so that it would take weeks or months to create a counterfeit driving history. Sadly I think car computer security is trailing the rest of the computer business by about 15 years.

 

[GasGuzz]

While quite true, you still have to bring your design to the bean counters.<O</O
“So you’re installing a multitude of sensors, increasing cost, to appease the Used car market when we’re in the business of selling New cars at competitive prices? What do we pay you to do here, again?”<O</O

 

[tertius]

My question then becomes.

How do I spec a 2012 to get a "New" price to compare to some of the local Subarus lurking in the Chevy (etc.) lots.

 

[rico567]

For me, used car prices are so high now that buying anything newer than 4-5 years old in a used car makes no sense. We're buying new this time, and we've almost always bought used in the past.

 

[fatabbot]

For me, used car prices are so high now that buying anything newer than 4-5 years old in a used car makes no sense. We're buying new this time, and we've almost always bought used in the past.

+1 for the most part.

My Kia Soul brought in just $1k less than I paid for it 16 mos. ago. With used car prices probably just off their peak (and going to start a decline as new car sales pick up), you can come out sitting pretty by trading/selling a recent model year car and then purchasing new. Especially with a brand like Subaru which is known for excellent resale.

My new (to me) Veracruz, on the other hand, has subpar resale value and was therefore a good deal when buying used.

 

[AWDFTW]

With the premium of many used cars in our current economy, and Subaru in general holding value well....unless you want to get a 5+ year old model, there is not much reason or overall cost difference to buying a new one versus a 1-2 year old model.

 

[rasterman]

My question then becomes.

How do I spec a 2012 to get a "New" price to compare to some of the local Subarus lurking in the Chevy (etc.) lots.

You could get a pretty clean comparison between used 2010-11 and new 2012 cars. Not a lot of features changed.

So if you spec out a '12 without the rear seat entertainment option, you'll be mighty close to the equivalent model for 10-11.

It's much harder to compare them to 2009 & earlier models. You're probably closer by comparing it to the older Tribecas than Outbacks at that point.

 

[Startiger]

I prefer a slightly used car. Only 1-2 years old with less than 25,000 miles. They are much lower in price, but still have most of the factory warranty. There is a pretty dramatic price drop from new to slightly used. However, if the Carfax says that it was owned by a fleet car service, or it was a rental, forget it. I won't even consider those because they are almost always beat to ****.

That being said, ALWAYS do your homework. New or used, there are some models to avoid and others to give preference to.

 

[Looby]

I've been buying only new cars for years, but when I visited my
long time Mazda dealer to get a new '09 Miata, he had a pristine
'06 on the lot with 8900 miles, and a "Mazda certified preowned"
drivetrain warranty for 4.5 more years/100k mi, $0 deductible --
also 6 months remaining of bumper-to-bumper factory warranty.

Mechanically, virtually identical to "new" model, and nearly 50%
below new car price -- with a better warranty against failures in
the later years of its life.

...some deals just can't be passed up,

Looby

 

[subiesailor]

+1 for the most part.

My Kia Soul brought in just $1k less than I paid for it 16 mos. ago. With used car prices probably just off their peak (and going to start a decline as new car sales pick up), you can come out sitting pretty by trading/selling a recent model year car and then purchasing new. Especially with a brand like Subaru which is known for excellent resale.

My new (to me) Veracruz, on the other hand, has subpar resale value and was therefore a good deal when buying used.

Actually a friend in the car biz - he does high end custom interior and custom built electrical and stereo systems. Actually designs them not just installing them. Has said that one of this Buyers - who works for several Dealers and dealer networks they give him a list of used cars they want for their lots and he purchases them via the auction lots - has said that the next two years used car prices will continue to climb. The primary cause is due to the lack of leased and rental cars pumped into the market during the past 5yrs primarily due to the economy hit everyone took etc.

So for at least the next year or so used car prices will continue to climb.

 

[vr4Legacy]

I was dead set on getting a low mileage 2010 OB last year, but then I started shopping. A USED 2010 with less options (and no folding mirrors ) was only ~$2500 less than my NEW 2011 with 0 miles and a sunroof. Add to that the great financing they were offering on new cars, it just didn't make sense.

I'm currently keeping an eye out for a replacement car for my current DD, and used Subarus are keeping a high price.