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05 Outback, 15 WRX
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

Read through the 420 Diagnosis Thread. Posted a few times there and wasn't able to get my logs reviewed by anyone. So I thought I would post them here. It's a 2005 CA Outback so it has the 5 sensors and 3 cats. Car it self has 220k Miles but the engine was replaced but subaru (I see a yellow Subaru sticker) unknown miles..Hope this won't be a problem

CEL started around this time last year 195K miles. I was able to fix it for a week (new sensors) and got it smogged. But it's back and the light comes back after 40 miles.

Run down of what I have done already.
  • OEM knock sensor new autozone PCV 10/16
  • New Sensors all around, Front 2 AFR are OEM 22641AA33A 2/17, Middle two are Denso 2344446, and rear is Denso or Bosch most likely Denso but can't find my receipt
  • New oem gas cap 9/17
  • NGK Iridium spark plugs 10/17
  • OEM Ignition coil 2/28
Rear cat looks like it was replaced. No records from previous owner. Heat shield was missing, replaced with oem.

So I have idle logs and ~55mph steady to stop

Would appreciate if you guys can check out my logs (2 files in the zip). Let me know if I need to log something else.
Thanks
 

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2006 2.5i
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8 Posts
Don't quote me on this, but if IIRC i had a CA 2.5i that came into the independent shop i was working at with a p0420 a while back. i found info on a CA specific recall/bulletin for Cats and a re flash. i believe i also logged a VE (volumetric efficiency/MAF issue) with my Ecan as well. however the car left, i have no idea what my boss told him or quoted him.

i do not have a zip program on my phone but ill check when i get back home monday. might be worth checking your VE too, idk how your logging but if you could log idle into a 1st gear wot held till it shift to second. im curious what your maf and a/f are reading.
 

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05 Outback, 15 WRX
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Discussion Starter #3
Cool, Thanks for the reply. Ya I checked the recall and it said all of them were completed. I'm wondering if the dealer would "Reflash" it even though it "was" completed. Taking it back to the dealer is my last resort, since all the stories say they only want to replace the cats as a fix. I think i'm out of the pzev cat warranty, it's something like 10 year 150k miles.

I'll do a 0-45ish run next. Thanks
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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call your local subaru dealer and ask them about free replacement cats.
(there was something about them back in time that maybe a lifetime thing on those cal spec 2005 cats, ...possibly just in california).

I don't know how to read the files like @plain OM. and @traildogck

but you do have a mountain of miles on that car.
 

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Master Caster
2005 XT, Mildly Modified...2006 XT Limited, Highly Modifed
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I am used to looking at more parameters that can help with the general health of the car. Attached is an example of a log from yesterday. Some of these are turbo related, but try to add as many as you can so we can get a full snapshot.
 

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2005 Legacy GT wagon 5MT Limited
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The rear sensor, the one whose readings trigger the P0420, should be a Denso. If it's a Bosch, that may well be your problem.
 

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Lawn ornament XT
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Looks like the rear cat is taking its sweet time to light off, and not always staying lit. That might be normal for that model, not sure.

Does it currently have a heat shield in place?
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
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if you use a regular odbc2 scan tool, or torque pro etc.

does it show all emissions ready? or does it show the catalyst etc. as not ready?
 

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2006 2.5i
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Cool, Thanks for the reply. Ya I checked the recall and it said all of them were completed. I'm wondering if the dealer would "Reflash" it even though it "was" completed. Taking it back to the dealer is my last resort, since all the stories say they only want to replace the cats as a fix. I think i'm out of the pzev cat warranty, it's something like 10 year 150k miles.

I'll do a 0-45ish run next. Thanks
there are plenty of drive to you reprogramming services now a days, im not a fan of the dealer either unless you find one with genuine tech's and service writers. its hit or miss. try and find a calibration number via scan tool to compair

BUT if you have a pre existing VE issue then no matter what you throw at it it wont fix it. typically a MAF faults to either a positive or negative fuel trim. the sensor still works, so it wont set a code but the numbers will be a little off. positive fuel trims means extra air, extra air could set a false p0420 if the system is super sensitive.

it could still also be another issue, im just spit balling ideas cause im going threw a similar situation. i set a p0420 at wot only, if i drive like a normal person the code clears itself lol

could be a weak cat, could be something else.

if you have an IR temp gun might be worth check exhaust temps pre and post cats too see how much of a temp difference there is
 

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05 Outback, 15 WRX
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Discussion Starter #10
Looks like the rear cat is taking its sweet time to light off, and not always staying lit. That might be normal for that model, not sure.

Does it currently have a heat shield in place?
Yes oem heat shield is now in place. Was missing before but it's been a few months now with it on.

if you use a regular odbc2 scan tool, or torque pro etc.

does it show all emissions ready? or does it show the catalyst etc. as not ready?
I use torque pro. All readiness are complete. Catalyst and Evap System are the last two that become ready.

call your local subaru dealer and ask them about free replacement cats.
(there was something about them back in time that maybe a lifetime thing on those cal spec 2005 cats, ...possibly just in california).

I don't know how to read the files like @plain OM. and @traildogck

but you do have a mountain of miles on that car.
Yep..it runs great tho, besides the disabled cruise/CEL.

The rear sensor, the one whose readings trigger the P0420, should be a Denso. If it's a Bosch, that may well be your problem.
ok cool, I'll double check what sensor I bought

there are plenty of drive to you reprogramming services now a days, im not a fan of the dealer either unless you find one with genuine tech's and service writers. its hit or miss. try and find a calibration number via scan tool to compair

BUT if you have a pre existing VE issue then no matter what you throw at it it wont fix it. typically a MAF faults to either a positive or negative fuel trim. the sensor still works, so it wont set a code but the numbers will be a little off. positive fuel trims means extra air, extra air could set a false p0420 if the system is super sensitive.

it could still also be another issue, im just spit balling ideas cause im going threw a similar situation. i set a p0420 at wot only, if i drive like a normal person the code clears itself lol

could be a weak cat, could be something else.

if you have an IR temp gun might be worth check exhaust temps pre and post cats too see how much of a temp difference there is
I'll try to the temp gun, was hoping the cats would $till be in good shape.ha
I thought I MAF logged in my file? I'm going to do a 0-45ish run right now and I'll check.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hello again. Forgot to upload these. Wasn't able to get a good launch due to always getting green lights at on ramps..but I logged two from a roll and WOT to about 50.
If anyone can take a look at these and let me know if you see anything out of line.
 

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Premium Member
2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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Where and what grade fuel are you using?
Intake Air Temperature - can you look at that and post. Idle and cruise.
I'm not too crazy about AutoCrap, you posted OEM from them but most of my experience has been aftermarket production parts. These parts look like the original but will not perform to the original. Its all related to property rights. The aftermarket can not build on an OEM part to exact standards without infringing. Resistance is the big issue. Sometimes the part will not mate to the OEM plugs, mounting surface, etc..
Grounding - Have you metered the conductance?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Where and what grade fuel are you using?
Intake Air Temperature - can you look at that and post. Idle and cruise.
I'm not too crazy about AutoCrap, you posted OEM from them but most of my experience has been aftermarket production parts. These parts look like the original but will not perform to the original. Its all related to property rights. The aftermarket can not build on an OEM part to exact standards without infringing. Resistance is the big issue. Sometimes the part will not mate to the OEM plugs, mounting surface, etc..
Grounding - Have you metered the conductance?
Sorry, forgot to add a comma after oem knock sensor. The autozone PCV was replaced with an OEM (subaru part number sticker on bag) and oem hose. The only part I can't confirm with a receipt is the rear O2 sensor. It was installed sometime January last year. It plugs in no problem.

The rest that say oem I have confirmed with receipts and seal parts no. sticker on bag/box (all came from a dealer or online subaru dealer).

Ok I added IAT to my log. Will log around 6 pm pacific time.

I am in southern california. Right now it's filled with 91 (highest in CA) after the fuel pump/filter install. Light still came on. Previously I ran 89 (mid grade) for a while hoping it would help the code. Nothing changed, so I went back to 87 up until this last tank.

I have not measured conductance. I have installed the paranoid fabrications ground kit. I can recheck the grounds though.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where and what grade fuel are you using?
Intake Air Temperature - can you look at that and post. Idle and cruise.
I'm not too crazy about AutoCrap, you posted OEM from them but most of my experience has been aftermarket production parts. These parts look like the original but will not perform to the original. Its all related to property rights. The aftermarket can not build on an OEM part to exact standards without infringing. Resistance is the big issue. Sometimes the part will not mate to the OEM plugs, mounting surface, etc..
Grounding - Have you metered the conductance?

@cardoc, uploaded new logs with IAT. This was car warmed up, idle to 55ish cruise to stop.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
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...

The only part I can't confirm with a receipt is the rear O2 sensor. It was installed sometime January last year. It plugs in no problem.

...
I have not measured conductance. I have installed the paranoid fabrications ground kit. I can recheck the grounds though.

Thanks

I think you have a bosch in the bunch from the parts store, if you can get it up on a lift or safely on ramps/ jack stands you maybe able to see a label on the wire/plastic/ metal.



things that don't belong will just screw right in, all o2 sensors seem like the same size for passenger cars/ trucks.
(and spec'd to "national pipe thread" )
 
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Discussion Starter #17
I think you have a bosch in the bunch from the parts store, if you can get it up on a lift or safely on ramps/ jack stands you maybe able to see a label on the wire/plastic/ metal.



things that don't belong will just screw right in, all o2 sensors seem like the same size for passenger cars/ trucks.
(and spec'd to "national pipe thread" )
you may be on to something.
https://parts.puentehillssubaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Outback-Limited-25L-4AT/_54102_6024414/EXHAUST-MUFFLER-U5-05MY-05MY/B13-440-02.html

The part 22690*A shows part no. 22690AA45C
https://www.ebay.com/itm/01-05-Subaru-Outback-04-05-Legacy-Downstream-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-OEM-NEW-22690AA45C/322440045701?epid=1511293790&hash=item4b12eca485:g:QU8AAOSwfVpYuIKS&vxp=mtr
This has a green cable shield. The one on my car right now has a black cable shield. I think that's how denso and/or bosch come. So I can almost confirm I didn't buy the rear O2 from subaru.

Are you sure you don't have a vacuum leak?
Not 100%, but I check with a carb cleaner around different vacuum lines, no change in rpm. Recently I tried with a butane torch (no flame obviously) around vacuum lines and intake. No change in rpm. Am I doing it wrong? Should I focus on certain ones? maybe I missed key points.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 3.0 VDC Wag + 2018 2.5 Leg Ltd
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you may be on to something.
https://parts.puentehillssubaru.com/a/Subaru_2005_Outback-Limited-25L-4AT/_54102_6024414/EXHAUST-MUFFLER-U5-05MY-05MY/B13-440-02.html

The part 22690*A shows part no. 22690AA45C
https://www.ebay.com/itm/01-05-Subaru-Outback-04-05-Legacy-Downstream-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-OEM-NEW-22690AA45C/322440045701?epid=1511293790&hash=item4b12eca485:g:QU8AAOSwfVpYuIKS&vxp=mtr
This has a green cable shield. The one on my car right now has a black cable shield. I think that's how denso and/or bosch come. So I can almost confirm I didn't buy the rear O2 from subaru.


Not 100%, but I check with a carb cleaner around different vacuum lines, no change in rpm. Recently I tried with a butane torch (no flame obviously) around vacuum lines and intake. No change in rpm. Am I doing it wrong? Should I focus on certain ones? maybe I missed key points.
the things get made in batches, colors on connectors can change, and the photos used on the internet may not match the box at present day.
 

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2001 VDC/SC One of a Kind
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You can use a spray like brake cleaner or such. I was thinking injector seals, intake tube between MAF and throttle body, throttle body seal, vacuum hoses, as well as the intake seals themselves. If the engine doesn't change rpm when sprayed around these areas, then I'd say your good on no leaks. If there are no leaks, then we are looking for the reason the ECM is adding fuel LT. It may be that rear O2 is faulty. It takes too long to come up on voltage, especially since you were already at temp.
 
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