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2005 Subaru Outback XT Limited 5MT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I'm looking at getting my DD tuned. It already has a Catless Invidia Uppipe but otherwise stock aside from some suspension mods.

2005 Outback XT

First and foremost I want to keep it looking as stock as possible so I was looking at the CubbyPod from JCSPods or even just spending the cash on a Cobb V3 for the gauges and other perks that come with it.

1. My tuner is telling me to just get an AEM UEGO AFR sensor with gauge to use and while I know I need the wideband sensor and understand why its needed for tuning, if I'm looking at the Cobb wouldn't I just need the sensor? I see AEM has a version with an inline controller that doesn't have a gauge. Does the gauge in the typical kit have the controller built into the gauge? There is about a $100 difference with the gauge kit vs inline controller.

2. What kit to get. I see there are a few different AEM ones with 4.2 or 4.9 Bosch sensors. AEM 30-4110 for instance

3. Cost. since this is my DD I'm not looking to spend a ton but as mentioned was looking at the Cobb AP mainly for using it for gauges and then weighing the costs of multiple gauges and such. $600 for the Cob AP with a wideband sensor $80 - $100 would be about the same as a AFR gauge and sensor + Boost gauge kit +whatever else. (was initially looking at the vent gauge kit that would be another $200)

I'm planning on adding a downpipe down the road but will probably quit there. I won't be adding a bigger turbo, might try and setup for E85 but that's about it.

What am I overthinking or just plain thinking wrong about this. I guess I just don't quite understand the hardware aspect of the AFR and such.

Is there an option that is basically plug and play with an upgraded wideband sensor. I thought with the Cobb AP it could be just sensor replacement and plug and play basically.

Help please.
 

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2005 Outback XT limited
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The AP v3 covers almost everything there so less need to add gauges. I have seen more users flip out and start questioning "omg is my car dying what are these numbers..." they honestly have no idea what they are looking at, they just think its cool.

All cobb products are focused around their intake and box - you have to buy it to use the AP otherwise the values are off.

Stage 1 is just the airbox. It's like slapping on the SPT intake and calling it a day. The OTS stage 2 map is tuned for a "full exhaust" and cobb airbox/intake with stock TMIC. You can run just a downpipe and cobb intake for stage 2. Anything more than that you really should have a tuner dial in your car. The ots maps are merely that, generic and not directly focused to your engine. Going from my previous hybrid tune to the cobb tune it created the horrible drop idle issue which continually plagues my car but at this moment I have no need to drop $500 for a custom tune or have my car blow up on the dyno. Subarus - you never know what you'll get.

I use the AP2 but only to monitor when there are issues. Adjusting idle levels etc. I do monitor when i think there are issues but I also think there is a unicorn poking holes in my engine. You can adjust when needed but its more about the learning curve with the equipment. As my mechanic/tuner said the AP is plug n play n watch. If you have to watch everything you are better to go with a personal tuner. The gains are there but minimal at best. They are "safe for your engine"....sort of.
 

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🖤💔💙 3 Beautiful OBXTs
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I personally like live gauges. Physical Pods.

There are ways to do it, other than with pods tho. Innovate has a (bosch) sensor and there is a plug-in On RomRaider. There is one for AEM also. You can have a live gauge there, it just depends how you configure RR. There are also other logging and reading software. There is of course the AP.

In Frank, I have the AFR (Innovate WB) and Innovate EGT (Exhaust Gas Temo)stacked right on top of each other on the pillar. It's amazing if the AFR goes into the red, how fat the EGT spikes. I have seen it go from 900*F to 1400*F in 10 seconds.

Now those numbers mean something....

As far as tuning goes. I can highly recommend XRT, but your car will have to be healthy. If you just slap an AP on it, you might not know...
 

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2005 Subaru Outback XT Limited 5MT
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So I'm pretty sure I'm overthinking this and after more reading what I want to do isn't logistically possible. I was thinking of getting an aftermarket wideband sensor and plugging it into the stock location then reading it through the ECU. This apparently won't work.

Now my issue is I'm going to get a AFR gauge (was looking at the AEM UEGO AEM 30-4110) and I will probably install it into the cubby pod and get a bung installed in my stock exhaust for now.

I have a vag com cable but from what I understand I won't be able to log the new wideband through the ECU unless I wire it through maybe the rear o2 sensor with RomRaider?

If this is true how can I wire it and if not how can I log through RomRaider while logging other aspects that might be needed for tuning?
 

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Romraider has wideband plugins. Log the ECU through one USB port and the wideband through another. It'll end up in the same log. No need to go hacking your car wiring up anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Romraider has wideband plugins. Log the ECU through one USB port and the wideband through another. It'll end up in the same log. No need to go hacking your car wiring up anymore.
Oh. Awesome. I didn't realize it could do that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok so a downpipe can be installed without an initial tune and still be driven without being in limp mode (carefully)

Question. Should I get a bung installed in the stock downpipe for an AFR and then do the hard pulls needed for logging or can the pulls be done with the aftermarket DP

I'm looking at the Invidia 2 bung downpipe but would rater get a basic tune before dropping the $575 on the Invidia DP
 

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If you put a bung on the stock pipe make sure it's between the turbo and the first catalytic converter. If it's after a cat it will be useless. The main thing you need for an aftermarket downpipe is to zero out the closed loop to open loop delay. You should be ok to dial the AFR in safely after that, but honestly a tuner probably will start you off with a known good starting point that includes better fuel and ignition timing maps as well, before you even start the harder pulls.
 

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I'm looking at the Invidia 2 bung downpipe but would rater get a basic tune before dropping the $575 on the Invidia DP
Tuned for the way it flows on the old pipe, or tuned for the way it will probably flow on the new pipe?

In my mind, that's two different tunes, and doing one before changing the plumbing is a waste of money unless you plan to drive it a lot/wait a long time before buying the pipe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tuned for the way it flows on the old pipe, or tuned for the way it will probably flow on the new pipe?

In my mind, that's two different tunes, and doing one before changing the plumbing is a waste of money unless you plan to drive it a lot/wait a long time before buying the pipe.
That's the dilemma I'm having. I plan to get a downpipe just not sure when. I would prefer soon but may need to wait a bit. I was thinking the initial tune while pretty stock would be a good way to go in case it's a little while before I get the DP plus if I get the downpipe I'll need to be prepared to get the tune pretty quick to be able to use the car and since it's a semi daily driver that would be extra prep and logistics since it would be an eTune
 
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