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Discussion Starter #1
loss power, stall fault catalyst / O2 sensor / Air flow / IACV ?

so i just change it to new and after short time its cooked again. and all that oil splatered all around place. it cooks and makes bad smell there.
catalyst dont have those heat peaces . its removed. it has some diy metal sheet on top to protect some from heat and from oil that drops on catalyst and cooks there. very bad smell inside car.
should i wraped catalyst with that termo protection stuff and maybe put back those heat protection on top?
i saw other have same problem with that boot .
anyone have better solutions maybe ?
i buy some cheap no name made boots from shops. so one time its softer rubber and other time harder. but all them cooks same after some time. maybe some holding longer then others.
why we have catalyst so close to that boot anyways? hmm.
 

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pic of what is there now? is there any heat shield over the catalytic converter? (OEM or otherwise)

subaru green cap axle with a new subaru boot is best.

I would NOT wrap anything in anything. (that stuff denigrates and makes things worse,...if it is not very very very expensive to buy...like Formula 1 car drivers would want on their antique autos)..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
pic of what is there now? is there any heat shield over the catalytic converter? (OEM or otherwise)

subaru green cap axle with a new subaru boot is best.

I would NOT wrap anything in anything. (that stuff denigrates and makes things worse,...if it is not very very very expensive to buy...like Formula 1 car drivers would want on their antique autos)..
you saying new subaru boots , you mean some new oem subaru boots ? because i clearly dont have them. maybe i would need to order them. i just get boots what they have in shop some blueprint ones or other chinese made ones.
i mean i ust buy some blue print made ones as those

but then other times they have other company made ones and i can tell ones are softer others more hard rubber used there. and then after week or so i look underneath and my grease from inside boot allready all over frame and places. meaning rubber allready broke.
i mean i removed all heat shield plates .cant find pics now of that place
could try then put back those heat shields somehow. if that would help me.
p.s. my axles all original green ones .
 

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you saying new subaru boots , you mean some new oem subaru boots ? because i clearly dont have them. maybe i would need to order them. i just get boots what they have in shop some blueprint ones or other chinese made ones.
i mean i ust buy some blue print made ones as those

but then other times they have other company made ones and i can tell ones are softer others more hard rubber used there. and then after week or so i look underneath and my grease from inside boot allready all over frame and places. meaning rubber allready broke.
i mean i removed all heat shield plates .cant find pics now of that place
best: new boots bought from subaru, on a green cap axle gotten at a junk yard.
(the boots bought from subaru will probably not fit any aftermarket axle exactly).

which seems to be what is happening. = your aftermarket axle is slightly smaller then the aftermarket boot you got, and the clamps are not getting on tight enough. and never will.

and put the heat sheild back on the cat. it keeps the heat in it so it does not bake anything over the catalytic converter. AND it keeps the heat in it so it works properly. (...and if you leave it off you might get a P0420 in time, ...or some other code releated to EGR if you car has one).

even put it back on with cheap malleable wire used for hay bales if necessary. (bends a bit easier then a cloths hanger).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
best: new boots bought from subaru, on a green cap axle gotten at a junk yard.
(the boots bought from subaru will probably not fit any aftermarket axle exactly).

which seems to be what is happening. = your aftermarket axle is slightly smaller then the aftermarket boot you got, and the clamps are not getting on tight enough. and never will.

and put the heat sheild back on the cat. it keeps the heat in it so it does not bake anything over the catalytic converter. AND it keeps the heat in it so it works properly. (...and if you leave it off you might get a P0420 in time, ...or some other code releated to EGR if you car has one).

even put it back on with cheap malleable wire used for hay bales if necessary. (bends a bit easier then a cloths hanger).
my all axles original green ones. boots not original ones but they fit ok . i change both sides couple times allready and driver side boots holds just fine. only that one cooking under catalyst. i can imagine what amount of heat goes from there. no surprise.
i allready got p0420. that was way before i took off those shields.
and i mean those boots not leaking under them but they broken in middle just that.
but i try then put back head shield there if its not broken too much.
 

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on my own 2002 H4 I have replaced the rear o2 sensor two times for P0420 codes. (just getting old and dirty).

both with new Denso branded ones.

115,000 miles now. (once was at 65,000 miles,...second one was around 100,000 miles).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
on my own 2002 H4 I have replaced the rear o2 sensor two times for P0420 codes. (just getting old and dirty).

both with new Denso branded ones.

115,000 miles now. (once was at 65,000 miles,...second one was around 100,000 miles).
i need front one not rear. bosch one would cost me about 100 euros. and since now i checked all other stuff that could cause p0420 and weird engine run at times. cleaned all parts , checked all stuff i found list somewhere in net of all stuff i need to check. so notin else left ust to change sensor i guess.

BOSCH Lambda Sensor 0 258 007 084
i found Denso ones too but they cost even more somehow. didin't found notin cheaper then 100 euros.
Bosch says change it every 160000 km.

once i tryed to remove that front sensor. no luck it was so tight there. and because wire you cant put there normal tool. there is space there to put normal tool but it has no grip enough to turn sensor.
i found they have kinda special stuff for O2 sensors
 

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i need front one not rear. bosch one would cost me about 100 euros. and since now i checked all other stuff that could cause p0420 and weird engine run at times. cleaned all parts , checked all stuff i found list somewhere in net of all stuff i need to check. so notin else left ust to change sensor i guess.

BOSCH Lambda Sensor 0 258 007 084
i found Denso ones too but they cost even more somehow. didin't found notin cheaper then 100 euros.
Bosch says change it every 160000 km.

once i tryed to remove that front sensor. no luck it was so tight there. and because wire you cant put there normal tool. there is space there to put normal tool but it has no grip enough to turn sensor.
i found they have kinda special stuff for O2 sensors
a bad front sensor will cause more codes then just a p0420. (in my case a P0130, ...in others with more advanced things, minor misfires, p0171,...and a P0420 as a extra fart ).


a regular garage will have enough tools to remove o2 sensors. they rust/ corrode in place.

penetrating oil, a saw to cut the old thing in half so a regular socket wrenches can get on it,...more penetrating oil,


..and a little bit of torch heat, just enough torch heat to get the old one out, without damaging the cat/exhaust pipes, and the threads on the hole to put the new one in.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
a bad front sensor will cause more codes then just a p0420. (in my case a P0130, ...in others with more advanced things, minor misfires, p0171,...and a P0420 as a extra fart ).


a regular garage will have enough tools to remove o2 sensors. they rust/ corrode in place.

penetrating oil, a saw to cut the old thing in half so a regular socket wrenches can get on it,...more penetrating oil,


..and a little bit of torch heat, just enough torch heat to get the old one out, without damaging the cat/exhaust pipes, and the threads on the hole to put the new one in.
hmm how to tell then for sure if its front or rear one. mine error on android tells me Catalyst system efficiency below threshold (Bank1). at some point i did get other errors. i got knock sensor error earlier but i change it and thats gone. now all is left just this one p0420 bank 1 error
car sometimes strugles to accelerate , sometimes fine, then sometimes its feel like loosing power or something. i read a lot about it and cleaned all those places it could be problem. nothing else comes to my mind just that sensor now left.
p.s. i rememered now i got misfire codes too one time. but just one time. then its gone and never again i got them.
 

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1. try Subaru OEM boots, they should last longer. i've seen aftermarket boots fail quicker and particularly in cases where they see more comrpomising situations.

2. yes - if you can get an original heat shield - get it on the exhaust. i've heard one Subaru specialist shop owner suggest that not having heat shields can exaccerbate the P0420 issue. Not sure I believe that or at least think it's anywhere close to common - but if yo'ure contemplating it anyway for heat redirection due to the CV boot issue, do it.

3. You can drive the car indefinitely with the P0420 code, it's compeltely meaningless. You can drive 100,000 miles with it on, no problem.

If you can't easily track it down - install a $5 spacer on the rear O2 sensor to get rid of the P0420 code. It doesn't work every time, but quite often
 

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hmm how to tell then for sure if its front or rear one. mine error on android tells me Catalyst system efficiency below threshold (Bank1). at some point i did get other errors. i got knock sensor error earlier but i change it and thats gone. now all is left just this one p0420 bank 1 error
car sometimes strugles to accelerate , sometimes fine, then sometimes its feel like loosing power or something. i read a lot about it and cleaned all those places it could be problem. nothing else comes to my mind just that sensor now left.
p.s. i rememered now i got misfire codes too one time. but just one time. then its gone and never again i got them.
miles or kms?

maybe the front one is bad also,...just not bad enough to trip codes.
but enough to give you rough running with its bad data being fed to the ECU.


seems like you may need both o2 sensors. and if you change them at the same time, with the same brand. (bosch OK). it will elminate future guess work.

edit: and I forgot about the rear o2 sensor spacer option to get the sensor just a little out of the dirty exhaust gas but still read OK.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
1. try Subaru OEM boots, they should last longer. i've seen aftermarket boots fail quicker and particularly in cases where they see more comrpomising situations.

2. yes - if you can get an original heat shield - get it on the exhaust. i've heard one Subaru specialist shop owner suggest that not having heat shields can exaccerbate the P0420 issue. Not sure I believe that or at least think it's anywhere close to common - but if yo'ure contemplating it anyway for heat redirection due to the CV boot issue, do it.

3. You can drive the car indefinitely with the P0420 code, it's compeltely meaningless. You can drive 100,000 miles with it on, no problem.

If you can't easily track it down - install a $5 spacer on the rear O2 sensor to get rid of the P0420 code. It doesn't work every time, but quite often
code itself don't bothers me , just how car drive is . sometimes feels weak and that engine takes bad mixture of fuel or something. sometimes its lags to accelerate . i think its drink too much fuel too.
i think its my front sensor not rear. bank 1 error is not front sensor ?
 

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code itself don't bothers me , just how car drive is . sometimes feels weak and that engine takes bad mixture of fuel or something. sometimes its lags to accelerate . i think its drink too much fuel too.
i think its my front sensor not rear. bank 1 error is not front sensor ?
this Ej251 car has a simple set,...only a pair.

bank 1 sensor 1 is the front o2 sensor

bank 1 sensor 2 is the rear o2 sensor.



although simple 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder engines have bank1, bank 2,
and front and rear sensor on each side of the y pipes, in the same long list of ODBC II codes available.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
this Ej251 car has a simple set,...only a pair.

bank 1 sensor 1 is the front o2 sensor

bank 1 sensor 2 is the rear o2 sensor.



although simple 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder engines have bank1, bank 2,
and front and rear sensor on each side of the y pipes, in the same long list of ODBC II codes available.
yes i saw it has only two them. so could try spacer on rear first to check . if it change anything. and when i reset that code, sometimes it goes back sooner and sometimes i must wait longer.
i found just fron sensor bosch and rear denso. so different makers could make problem ?

another thing could i tell which sensor from real time data that i can get from torque pro android app. it gives info like voltage on sensors and stuff.
should i check it on idle or when driving .

but as sensors should be changed with time, maybe its good time to just change them. i just hope it will fix my engine weirdness problems.
 

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yes i saw it has only two them. so could try spacer on rear first to check . if it change anything. and when i reset that code, sometimes it goes back sooner and sometimes i must wait longer.
i found just fron sensor bosch and rear denso. so different makers could make problem ?

another thing could i tell which sensor from real time data that i can get from torque pro android app. it gives info like voltage on sensors and stuff.
should i check it on idle or when driving .
\

ideally both sensors should be of the same make, so as to not confuse the ECU with what maybe a minor difference in data.

what makes the p0420 = cat converter inefficient. is the ECU comparing the readings from the front and the rear when the vehicle has been running for a while under regular conditions.

sometimes on new cars, dealers have to reflash the ECU to widen the spectrum to stop them from listing a P0420 too easy.
(like they are doing it to all cars made from a series).

______

If I were standing under your car right now, I would want to have 2 Bosch o2 sensors in my hand.
 

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code itself don't bothers me , just how car drive is
That code and the rear oxygen sensor can not cause drivability issues on that year/engine. The ECU doesn't even use that sensor/data to run the engine at all, so it's impossible. you can cut the sensor off and throw it away and the engine will run exactly the same. it's a monitor only - it's just looking to trip the P0420 code, nothing else.

so fixing the P0420 issue will not fix any engine issues.
if you have engine running issues i would completely ignore P0420 and the rear sensor for right now.
maybe you address them later- but first address the real issues, not these symptoms.

i think its my front sensor not rear. bank 1 error is not front sensor ?
are you getting additional O2 sensor codes, like a front sensor - if so then yes clearly that should be replaced or tested. the front sensor can cause drivability issues.

might want to look at coolant temp sensor.

*** what codes are you getting exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
\



______

If I were standing under your car right now, I would want to have 2 Bosch o2 sensors in my hand.
yeah me too. just need about 150 euros for them both. and still cant find both bosch or both denso.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That code and the rear oxygen sensor can not cause drivability issues on that year/engine. The ECU doesn't even use that sensor/data to run the engine at all, so it's impossible. you can cut the sensor off and throw it away and the engine will run exactly the same. it's a monitor only - it's just looking to trip the P0420 code, nothing else.

so fixing the P0420 issue will not fix any engine issues.
if you have engine running issues i would completely ignore P0420 and the rear sensor for right now.
maybe you address them later- but first address the real issues, not these symptoms.


are you getting additional O2 sensor codes, like a front sensor - if so then yes clearly that should be replaced or tested. the front sensor can cause drivability issues.

might want to look at coolant temp sensor.

*** what codes are you getting exactly?
no additional codes just p0420 now for good half year. but before at some point i got misfire codes on couple cilinders. then i changed plugs , changed knock sensor too i did got knock sensor error as well.
still car drives same.
just that my simptoms fits with people who talk about p0420 bad stuff, like loos power and lag in acceleration and such.
i dont know what my real isues are. i got leak on HG but does that make engine runs bad . and sometimes it doesnt runs bad . it just kinda slugish at times. duno how to explain it.
now one thing i read somwere but cant find anymore. so iread that you can test front sensor by removing it for time and try drive car even with it removed from place. car should go better or something . anyone knows that trick ?

coolant temp sensor ? could it bring problems ? i mean im getting ok coolant temp results. on cars cockpit and on android app torque pro.

p.s. as im going on LPG conversion and LPG burns at higher temp and engine goes kinda more dry or something all people who drive with LPG got valves knocking faster so we need to adjust valves more often then other because of LPG. so if thats makes engine kinda hottter, maybe its messes up with catalyst some as well. just my thoughts. duno it for sure, but some people say that with LPG you getting check engine light.
HG leakage couldn't be reason for engine slugish going could it ?
 

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yeah me too. just need about 150 euros for them both. and still cant find both bosch or both denso.
NTK is also fine. (from the NGK spark plug company.)

does Rockauto deliver to your area? they seem to have Denso, NTK, and Bosch, all in upstream/ downstream. (although your screen offerings will probably be different from mine).

(I have bought such things from both Rockauto and Amazon
....Amazon seems to want to muscle in on the autoparts with similar competitive pricing)..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
NTK is also fine. (from the NGK spark plug company.)

does Rockauto deliver to your area? they seem to have Denso, NTK, and Bosch, all in upstream/ downstream. (although your screen offerings will probably be different from mine).

(I have bought such things from both Rockauto and Amazon
....Amazon seems to want to muscle in on the autoparts with similar competitive pricing)..
found denso on other place

front sensor
lambda jutiklis 510mm (DENSO, DOX-0307)

and rear one
lambda jutiklis 750mm (DENSO, DOX-0120)
its says this one is universal. for many cars ... not sure for that universal statement.

and other makers we have NGK, Metzger, Triscan , trucker automotive, Fae, Meat and Doria, Facet , couple others.
 
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