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Twilight Blue 2015 3.6R with Eyesight
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I saw this commercial a while back, and just shook my head.
While I can see an oil lasting 20k miles, I just don't see keeping an oil filter in that long.
And how does Mobil get around people voiding their warranties?
If you aren't sure what I'm talking about:
 

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Fist of all, this is not a new concept from Mobil1.... when they first marketed Mobil1 in 1977, it was also marketed as "Once a year". (I actually tried it!!!)

Unfortunately, there are a lot of variables to be considered. Yes, the oil itself can last even longer than a year... but the the additives wear out. Also, motor-oil tends to become acidic over time which can corrode the inside of the engine. Additionally, condensation can build up as water in the bottom of the crankcase. THESE ARE THE REAL ISSUES TO CONSIDER!!

If you were to install n a bypass oil filtering system to your engine, you could run the oil for many years. (Replacing $20 filters) However, it is cheaper to simply change the oil/filter on a regular basis.

BTW: Were you aware that many small engine manufacturer's (Briggs-Stratton, Kohler, Tecumseh...etc) now sell engines with LIFETIME OIL in the crankcase? They have calculated that a lawnmower engine will last as long as the rest of the machine it is installed in WITHOUT oil-changes. (about 3 years)
 

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Twilight Blue 2015 3.6R with Eyesight
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@brucep
I worked for a trucking company that had centrifugal oil filters on their trucks. They very rarely changed the oil.
You brought up the points I was looking for. Detergents and paper oil filters deteriorate relatively quickly.
The environment also plays a big part in oil contamination. The oil itself doesn't degrade, it just becomes contaminated.
I change my oil basically twice a year because I don't put that many miles on it.
Even if I commuted and put 20kmi in a year, that's just too many miles to run with one oil filter.
Now if I had the 2.5, with the oil filter on top of the engine, everything would be golden. That way I'd replace the filter every 6kmi and leave the oil alone. well, maybe...
The dual purpose with modern oil is, like you said, detergent. It's meant to keep contaminants out of the engine and suspended in the oil, so the filter can take care of it.
For this to happen, the filter and oil must be changed on a regular mileage basis.
It's interesting you mention mower engines being sealed. I didn't know that. I guess you'd call them throw away mowers.
I'd say if auto manufacturers could do it, they'd sell their engines as well. After all, there's allot of people out there who have never popped the hood on their cars. It reminds me of the episode of Fraiser when they went to night school to learn automotive maintenance.
Fraiser was going to pop the hood on his car when Niles asks; "Won't that void the warranty?"
There really are people out there like that...
 

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BTW: Were you aware that many small engine manufacturer's (Briggs-Stratton, Kohler, Tecumseh...etc) now sell engines with LIFETIME OIL in the crankcase? They have calculated that a lawnmower engine will last as long as the rest of the machine it is installed in WITHOUT oil-changes. (about 3 years)
That bit sounds downright weird and awful.

There's a 25 year old Tecumseh in my shed. I used it to grind up a tree branch earlier today.

It's next to a 16 year old B&S generator with about 3k hours on it.

Really hoping the 1 year old Ariens next to that gets to tell the same kind of war stories. It did come with oil change instructions...

I can't imagine getting only 3 years out of such a tool.

Heck, my lawnmower is battery powered and I'm expecting 3 years out of the battery.
 

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2016 3.6 Limited with ES
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Over on BITOG this new oil from M1 was panned for the cost relative to the level of protection. At the time, Wally World was selling it for $49 but the M1 EP was selling for around $26 for the same 5 qt jug. $49 for 20k miles or $26 for 15k. The cost didn't make the AP oil worth it but now that the AP hasn't sold or moved on their shelves, they lowered the price by $10 so the difference is now less.

So will this oil last as long as claimed? I have no doubt that it will but the caveat comes with a practical acknowledgment that this oil or any other oil will lose its efficacy just sitting in an oil pan without starting the vehicle and getting it up to a sustained operating temp.

Oil will breakdown without use so this oil is not mean for storage per se but it's meant for sustained use

In terms of long term use up to 20k miles, the safest policy is to follow the change interval by the manufacture however if that doesn't concern you or you're out of warranty, I have no doubt that it will run very well out to 20k. Right now there are many UOAs on M1 EP showing 15k is no sweat.

Filters these days are so good that it's not even a point of serious discussion. The only real filter discussion are centered on people who want the cheapest filter with the best filtration. I never understood people who spend $30-40k on a car and then brag or wrangle over spending $10 on a filter instead of the $6 they actually spent. Regardless, the filters are extremely good these days and will hold all the cooties your engine could possible grow or produce in a year. Fram Ultra or the M1 filters are about the mainstream highpoints in filtration these days.

The measureable and reported specs on the M1 AP are very good. Remember that civilian VOA doesn't measure the organic compounds so that's caution however from what is known, the HTHS level of 3.7 is high, the cSt level of 117 is starting to push into 40 wt territory and the NOACK is low. IIRC, the ash content is less than 10%, also quite good.

It's probably the stoutest 5/30 on the market unless you run a boutique oil and the paper specs are rather good. The price, relative to the M1 EP, is another story.

Would I use it while still under warranty? Sure would. I already run a non-SN oil in my Subie and UOAs posted here for all the see show perfect wear. I eventually will run out to 8k, even under warranty, and likely to 10k if the UOAs support it.
 

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...the HTHS level of 3.7 is high, the cSt level of 117 is starting to push into 40 wt territory and the NOACK is low. IIRC, the ash content is less than 10%, also quite good.

It's probably the stoutest 5/30 on the market unless you run a boutique oil and the paper specs are rather good. The price, relative to the M1 EP, is another story....

I just checked the M1 website, and it shows the 5w30 Annual Protection only has an HTHS of 3.0, which is pretty average for a resource conserving 30 grade. Additionally, the viscosity at 100*C is 11.7, which is slightly thick.

I wonder how shear stable this stuff is in a turbo Subaru.
 

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I just checked the M1 website, and it shows the 5w30 Annual Protection only has an HTHS of 3.0, which is pretty average for a resource conserving 30 grade. Additionally, the viscosity at 100*C is 11.7, which is slightly thick.

I wonder how shear stable this stuff is in a turbo Subaru.
My apologies. Very caffeinated day today. It's 3.0 as you said.

The 11.7 is a tad on the thick end but right now I'm running Castrol 0w-30 which, in my last UOA from Blackstone, came in at 12.44. That's 40 wt territory for sure.
 

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Actually, when considering motor-oil for long-term use, the TBN becomes an important attribute. (Total Base Number)

Basically, the TBN is an indicator showing how much the oil can protect against acid build-up over many miles of use. (This is one reason that Rotella T6 is one of the best motor oils on the shelf in WallyMart..... T6 has one of the best TBN on the market 10.6)

More details regarding TBN ==> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_base_number
 

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If your driving conditions fall in line, this will be a good oil.

The filter concern is a non-issue and had been for some time. Fram says an engine produces about 1 gram of crud for every 1k miles and their fikters, depending on size, hold 30+ grams before the filter would enter bypass. An oil that is good for 20k doesn't begin to stress the filter. Mobil 1 filters are similar so use either with a calm mind.

Filters and oil are that good these days.
 

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Agree, oil doesn't degrade its self, its the byproducts that build up from incomplete combustion and condensation particularly during startup / warmup , short running and during winter when the normal engine temperatures aren't maintained / sustained for a reasonable periods of time.

Some of these byproducts and condensation can be driven off after regular significant trips at normal engine operating temperatures.

Also agree once detergents break down [that hold these byproducts in suspension]
become more corrosive to engine components (byproducts not held in suspension for the filter to take out effectively

Once the filter is blocked with byproducts the bypass valve opens allowing unfiltered oil to run though the engine - (bearing / journal surfaces first).

Used engine oil can be re-refined and reused.

Agree also with regular oil / filter changes , interval dependent on use / season and recommendations made in owners / service manual on service interval as a guide.
Forget about the advertising / claims made otherwise.

I change mine at 3K winter / short running and 4/6K summer etc depending on type of running. (oil colour as a guide also)
The best oil - whoevers offering the best 5W30 oil / filter deal. ie mobil castrol etc
 
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BTW: Were you aware that many small engine manufacturer's (Briggs-Stratton, Kohler, Tecumseh...etc) now sell engines with LIFETIME OIL in the crankcase? They have calculated that a lawnmower engine will last as long as the rest of the machine it is installed in WITHOUT oil-changes. (about 3 years)
Wow, and me with a 25 year old BS in my tractor, a 30 year old BS in my walk-behind, a 33 year old BS in my wheeled blower, and a 50 year old Tecumseh in my tiller. But I did rebuild the carbs in a couple of them. They just don't last.
 
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Wow, and me with a 25 year old BS in my tractor, a 30 year old BS in my walk-behind, a 33 year old BS in my wheeled blower, and a 50 year old Tecumseh in my tiller. But I did rebuild the carbs in a couple of them. They just don't last.
maybe Mobil and the engine, and auto manufactures are on to something, insuring and promoting programmed obsolescence. = don't maintain something until it dies.

maybe next year hyundai will make something with a sealed fluids in it (crank case, coolant, trans etc).
.....with a tag on the hood that says zero maint needed for the life of the vehicle. = estimated life expectancy 36,000,... and when and if it dies along side the road they will tow you and the hunk of metal back to the hyundai dealer to buy / lease a new one. and toss the spent carcass into the recycler.

____

on a similar note:

I know a fool that put tractor trailer sized oil filters on a 1986 era dodge plow truck with a 318, just intending to add oil to it as needed. then after it rusted some sold it, and another fool bought it,

he then the 2nd fool had a tough time picking the oil filters off as they had rusted, and the oil that had been in there had sludged some,
and yeah that acidy problem (I guess).

I am thinking such thought could ruin your antique tractors,.
...and I for one still walk behind a 1997 Briggs mower and a 2001 tecumseh snow blower just to stretch my legs.
 

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Speaking of Briggs and Stratton engines, had 2 small 3hp push lawn mowers that lasted around 30 years each - never did any thing special to look after them apart from making sure they had enough fuel and oil.
The worst thing about them was the diaphragm caburettors affecting starting reliability eventually - especially the older ones with chokes and without the priming button.

Having to take air leaner off to start them and continually retweeking the adjustable needle jet to get them to run well.
 

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The worst thing about them was the diaphragm caburettors affecting starting reliability eventually - especially the older ones with chokes and without the priming button.
Amazing what a $10 Ebay rebuild kit and a can of spray Gumout does for that. Like new performance.
 

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Used engine oil can be re-refined and reused.
Just a anecdote - My uncle (born around 1900) was an engineer on the Philippine railway during one of its expansions (not the driver kind, but the designer kind). He said in the jungle they would centrifuge the used oil to remove the soot and other combustion byproducts, decant the clear off the top, and just put it back in the heavy construction equipment. :nerd:
 

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Just a anecdote - My uncle (born around 1900) was an engineer on the Philippine railway during one of its expansions (not the driver kind, but the designer kind). He said in the jungle they would centrifuge the used oil to remove the soot and other combustion byproducts, decant the clear off the top, and just put it back in the heavy construction equipment. :nerd:
when on Mars "waste not, want not."

 

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so if my annual mileage is low ~5000 miles, should I still follow the schedule by mileage or time
If that 5000 miles is made up of many short trips you might want to consider following the severe schedule.
 

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so if my annual mileage is low ~5000 miles, should I still follow the schedule by mileage or time
By the book? Time. But I don't think you'd need to change the filter but once a year. JMO, but the filter would still be 1,000 under the 6,000 recco for normal changes.
 
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