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Discussion Starter #1
OK, now that I've picked the wheels, it's time to select tires.

Here's a little background. I live by a mountain lake at the end of 5.4 Kms of dirt trail with steep hills and sharp curves. I absolutely need winter tires and I currently run Michelin X-Ice from late November to early April.

Since this is a performance machine, I need to buy some reasonably high performance tires. However, I do not race or compete with the car, so ride and noise comfort are more important then max performance. I also need excellent wet traction. Since I drive on a dirt trail every day, and we get the occasional snow in the mountains even in April/May, October/November, I think it would be wise to use an all season tire. So given the above thinking, I've decide to with Ultra-High Performace All Season tires.

I have so far selected the following two tires from Tire Rack:
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S in 225/55-17 at $188

or the Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S in 235/55-17 at $128

The Pirelli is cheaper and is getting slightly better reviews. However, according to the folks at the Tire Rack, the Michelin is actually slightly better. Those two tires are virtually identical in size despite the different advertised dimensions.

I'm currently leaning towards the Pirelli mainly because it is cheaper. Does anyone have any experience with these tires? Any other similar tires you would recommend?
 

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Well when I get my OBXT I'll probably run Pilot Sports. They're one of the best performance all season tires, bar none. As always I would recommend Nokian, but the XT is a sporty car and WR's just aren't sporty enough for it ;)

So I'd definately say to go with the Michelins, thats my favorite brand of tire next to Nokian...
 

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I know this is a frequently rehashed (re-treaded?) issue, but I still would be interested in hearing what people think, especially now that most have now lived w/ their protenza-replacements for svrl thousand miles.

On review of tire threads in forum, there seems a general consensus that the Nokian WR is the winner for snow. However, while it can be run as a 4-season, it is probably not the best overall performance tire.

The other tires that have rec'd favorable mentioned in this forum are:

1. Falkien Ziex 512
2. Michelin Sport Pilot A/S
3. Goodrich Traction T/A
4. Conti extreme contacts
5. Yokohama Avid Touring

So . . .it would be great to hear (especially after 10-16" of snowfall in the Northeast) opinions of these top-runners now that people have really had a chance to drive them in most weather conditions.

Would be happy to repost as a poll if our trusty moderator thinks it would be appropriate.
 

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rgombine said:
On review of tire threads in forum, there seems a general consensus that the Nokian WR is the winner for snow. However, while it can be run as a 4-season, it is probably not the best overall performance tire.
There's one thing I forgot to mention in my previous message, the Michelin Sport Pilot A/S tires do great in the snow and bad weather just as the Nokian WR's do. The difference is that the WR's are more for extreme weather, light offroad performance, and not so much of a summer tire although they still work great in the heat :)

The Michelin's aren't as good of a winter tire but still do great in the snow, ice, rain, etc. They are a **** of a lot better performancewise, I'd think they'd suit the Outback XT like a glove, or at least a great as the Nokian WR's suit my Outback H6-3.0 ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
rgombine said:
I know this is a frequently rehashed (re-treaded?) issue, but I still would be interested in hearing what people think, especially now that most have now lived w/ their protenza-replacements for svrl thousand miles.

On review of tire threads in forum, there seems a general consensus that the Nokian WR is the winner for snow. However, while it can be run as a 4-season, it is probably not the best overall performance tire.

The other tires that have rec'd favorable mentioned in this forum are:

1. Falkien Ziex 512
2. Michelin Sport Pilot A/S
3. Goodrich Traction T/A
4. Conti extreme contacts
5. Yokohama Avid Touring

.
According to the reviews on TireRack and on 1010tires.com, all of these (an the Pirellis) are good choices. The Toyo Proxes 4 also gets lots of praise.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hero Boots said:


There's one thing I forgot to mention in my previous message, the Michelin Sport Pilot A/S tires do great in the snow and bad weather just as the Nokian WR's do. The difference is that the WR's are more for extreme weather, light offroad performance, and not so much of a summer tire although they still work great in the heat :)

The Michelin's aren't as good of a winter tire but still do great in the snow, ice, rain, etc. They are a **** of a lot better performancewise, I'd think they'd suit the Outback XT like a glove, or at least a great as the Nokian WR's suit my Outback H6-3.0 ;)
Thanks for all the input Kevin. Since I run winter tires in the winter months, WRs would not make much sense for me.

Glad to hear you love the Michelins, I also tend to favour them, but I'm having a hard time justifying spending the extra 50% over the equally well rated Pirellis. Both tires did the best in comparos with other UHP All Season tires on TireRack. Unfortunately, they were never compared directly to each other.

BTW: how come you favour a French brand? I would not have expected that of you :D
 

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I have the afforementioned Falkens and I love them. Cut right thru 12" of snow that we had a couple of weeks ago. And the braking ability is much better. Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just found out that the Pirelli P-Zero Nero in 235/55-17 is actually a special version of the tire manufactured specifically as OEM equipment on the Ford Mustang and it has a different thread pattern then that found on the other sizes. It also get only an A rating for wet traction compared to the other sizes' AA rating.

This is disapointing. The Michelin is looking better all the time!
 

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sduford said:
BTW: how come you favour a French brand? I would not have expected that of you :D
Well as Tevye would say in Fiddler, "TRADITION!"

My grandpa Max ALWAYS used Michelins on his vehicles, every time he bought a new truck or whatever else he'd go out and buy a new set of Michelins. He'd drive the vehicle back to his farm, take'er in the shop, pull the stock tires off, and throw the Michelins off. I've used many Michelin tires before and have had some great sucess with the brand, although Nokian beats them hands down as the WR's suit my Outback perfectly as for their purpose and the OB's.

Also of note, my best friend's smokin' hot sister actually lives in France and is an English teacher at the Michelin HQ. That really has no bearing on my liking of the tires, but **** she's fine! :12:
 

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Hero Boots said:


Well as Tevye would say in Fiddler, "TRADITION!"

My grandpa Max ALWAYS used Michelins on his vehicles, every time he bought a new truck or whatever else he'd go out and buy a new set of Michelins. He'd drive the vehicle back to his farm, take'er in the shop, pull the stock tires off, and throw the Michelins off. I've used many Michelin tires before and have had some great sucess with the brand, although Nokian beats them hands down as the WR's suit my Outback perfectly as for their purpose and the OB's.

:12:
And -- (and I'm pretty sure you've already said this) -- the advantages of the Nokian's are essentially their snow performance?

Anyone driving the michelins?
 

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I put a set Michelin's new HydroEdge tires on my older OBW this past year, and they've been great--much better than the OEM Michelins which came on the car. They're very good for cornering and wet/dry braking, excellent in the snow (esp the wet kind we tend to get on the west coast), and they're unbelievable in heavy rain. Even in water several inches deep, at highway speed, there is no hydroplaning and not even a slight loss of grip/control.
They're rated for long wear, too.

After 5k, I'd say the only things I don't like are: 1) they're noisy on certain road surfaces, and 2) they seem to pick up alot of little stones and hold them in the treads longer than other tires. Neither of these 'cons' is a big deal, but I've noticed that if I've picked up alot of stones, there can be some vibration felt in the steering until they work themselves out. It's a bit annoying.

I agree with sduford that the extra $ for the Michelin name is a pain in the butt, but I've never been unhappy with any of their car or truck tires (Toyo, too, for that matter.)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Whitlow said:
IEven in water several inches deep, at highway speed, there is no hydroplaning and not even a slight loss of grip/control.
I think that is a well meaning exageration! :)

I told you a million times not to exagerate... :5:

I have heard a lot of good things about the HydroEdge, but they are not available in a V-rating for my high-performance machine :eek:
 

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No b.s.... I've done the same highway commute for years, and there's a 2k stretch where a concrete center divider was added. The result was that water pools quite deep next to it whenever there's heavy rain (common here). On my old tires, I always had to slow down and grip tight on the wheel. With the HE tires, it's like a plow or something, and because the deep water is only on the driver's side of the car, it's a good test for both the AWD and the tires. They both result in near-perfect control, with hardly any loss of speed. No exaggeration!
 

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Size not given on the Tirerack

I am interested in the Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S too. Is the 235 vs. 225 stock size going to be a problem? I have read other reviews on the Pirelli and it rocks! What about the Toyo TPT in stock size--it has some good reviews too and you can get it in V rated for about $125 or so!

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes, the Pirelli wont be a problem. If you compare the Pirelli in 235/55 with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S in 225/55, you will find out that both have a diameter of 27.1" and the Pirelli is only .2" wider.

If you buy them, let us know how you like'em!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Re: Re: Choosing new tires for my OBXT

OneOBS said:


BTW, sales people on the Tirerack are paid a commision. They make more money on the over-priced Michelin tires.
Of course they are. But they also get to test all of these tires and to see test data and defect rates etc.

If Connor had been trying to sell me the Michelin, he would have said that it was much better. To tell me that the Michelin is sligthly better when it is 50% more money is not a very good sales tactic!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: Re: Re: Re: Choosing new tires for my OBXT

OneOBS said:


Tirerack doesn't test tires. They rely on customer feedback for information. That's how their rating system works. The sales force is given a training manual and set loose on the public. Over time, they become fairly knowledgable, however so would anyone with exposure to that much second hand information.
Not true, they do formal tests regularly and those tests are very well documented on their web site.

Also, they apparently take their sales force through "Ride and Drive" days.

You can see more info on their testing methods and the results of the various formal tests right here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testSearch.jsp

I've also found Connor, who hangs out on Edmunds, to be very knowledgeable and he never seems to be pushing any brand over another or to be pushing the most expensive tire. He also always declines to make comments on tires he doesn't sell. So after observing his recommendations for a few months, I personally trust him quite a bit.
 

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sduford said:
I just found out that the Pirelli P-Zero Nero in 235/55-17 is actually a special version of the tire manufactured specifically as OEM equipment on the Ford Mustang and it has a different thread pattern then that found on the other sizes. It also get only an A rating for wet traction compared to the other sizes' AA rating.

This is disapointing. The Michelin is looking better all the time!
Are you sure that all of them in that size are the mustang OEM's? Reason I ask is that tire rack has two differnet options for that size.. One says OEM mustang, and the other doesn't say anything. I placed an order for the latter, and am hoping it is the regular P-Zero tread pattern.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
NasdTrader said:


Are you sure that all of them in that size are the mustang OEM's? Reason I ask is that tire rack has two differnet options for that size.. One says OEM mustang, and the other doesn't say anything. I placed an order for the latter, and am hoping it is the regular P-Zero tread pattern.
That is new as of a couple of weeks ago. Before that they only had one listing, now there are two...

I guess someone should ask them what the difference is.
 

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sduford said:


That is new as of a couple of weeks ago. Before that they only had one listing, now there are two...

I guess someone should ask them what the difference is.
Well, that sounds promising for me atleast! I should be getting them today or tomorrow, and will compare them to the tread picture on the website.. I'll let you know what the result is.
 
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