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This is an extension of my original post: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/61-general-discussions/40959-2007-vs-2008-vs-2012-subaru-engineers-take-notes-3.html

We had another Jeep Grand Cherokee (GC) for rental before the Thanksgiving week & my take on driving the 2013 GC is very different this time. The 1st time in the new GC was in Dec 2011 in a Base 2012 Jeep GC (4WD; ODO 6000 miles out), this time was in Limited Jeep GC (2WD; ODO 1000 miles out). In 2011 I praised about the GC after the ~1000 'test drive', and almost bought it over the 2013 Outback. But now after having the 2013 Subaru, my take on GC has completely changed...

Impression when driving the 2013 GC: 1st of all, I noticed the amount of functions, buttons, even the vents, the markers on the vents, the design of the outside mirrors, the location of the upholders are extremely similar between the 2 vehicles. Jeep has a couple of extra features - HID light, Full Size Spare, Standard Remote Start, Backup Warning 'Beep' (I liked) & Extra Large Moonroof (w/ the annoying power inner panel). GC's seating is less comfortable with less support, harder. Although the lumbar support can go up & down your back, it doesn't 'hug your back' like the Subaru. GC's cockpit is like the Tribeca & overall the interior is not as 'modern' as the Subaru. Nav was awful to use (we end up using our own Garmin), backup camera showed images like oil painting (although the lens was clear). The step up height was still something to get used to since there is no running board...I've got long legs but shorter folks will have to jump in & out of the seat to avoid a sprain ankle. When driving, I like to judge the car by degree of fatigue after 2+ hrs of driving. In order not to get fatigued in the Jeep, I recommend going slow. I recall 4wd version handled better last year but the 2wd we drove did not inspire confidence. Now let's get to the most important aspect of a car (IMO), the handling.

The car plowed & it took a bit of effort to bring it back. During the 1st lane change in the GC I almost overshot the lane. Needless to say at high speed it was quite a handful. F=MA & at 1000+ ib extra weight, the law of physics cannot be argued. On the contrary, the 2013 Outback we drove through the Ozark Mountains put smiles on my face... it's almost like G35 but not quiet (where you would WANT TO Accelerate through turns even before hitting the apex). Off-road, the 2WD GC certainly didn't inspire confidence but I liked its beefy tires...& we came away fine through a short but rocky trail w/ steps; but my nervous palm soaked the steering wheel. I would not have had any doubt/less stress in the Subaru (other than fearing of a flat).

The bottom line: between 2013 GC Limited vs. 2013 Subaru Limited.... Subaru wins in nearly every category. The only pro from Jeep is that the Jeep is a little quieter than the Subaru but not by much, it's quieter at lower speed but only a smidge quieter when traveling 75mph or higher. However I would still go with the Jeep if I travel off-road extensively & I would only go w/ their top of the line off-road versions like the Trail hawk. Regardless how subjective my review is, I still like to add an American car back to our garage… maybe in 2014? ;)
 

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Yes, Fiat owns Chrysler and it will take a few years for them to sort out engineering and design changes, such as suspension, new platform, transmisson(s) and engine(s). They started with redesigned interior in 2013 and watch out for them in the future.... Jeep will become a worthy competitor in their segment once they start global component sharing.
 

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Funny I also cross shopped the Jeep and the Outback. I liked the Jeep seats better. As for handling the Jeep is, well, a Jeep and not really designed for road handling, of course... neither is the Subaru.

Not sure I really have a point other than if I towed more I would have got the Jeep. Since I have only towed my Dad's boat once in four years, I got the Subie.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
One more observation, GC has rain sensing wipers... to me this has always been a gimmick & an insult to people's intelligence, it's like the richer you are the dummer you are…since this option often appears on higher end cars. Duh, honey is it raining? Should I turn on the wiper or maybe wait a little while? In the middle of the highway not a single cloud in the sky, the wiper suddenly kicked in for about 6-7 turns, coincidentally all lights (low beam & auto high beam) came on, interior lights/Nav screen all dimmed - to the level I adjusted for nightime driving. We thought the car had malfunctioned then realized it's because we hit a patch of little insects... tiny carcasses smeared on the windshield (if the wiper hadn't kicked in, I would've still be able to see clearly). Apparently the rain sensor can't distinguish insects with H2O. :) Now, if it had been sand, that windshield would've gotten a dry polish! Way to go! :)
 

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One more observation, GC has rain sensing wipers... to me this has always been a gimmick & an insult to people's intelligence, it's like the richer you are the dummer you are…since this option often appears on higher end cars. Duh, honey is it raining? Should I turn on the wiper or maybe wait a little while? In the middle of the highway not a single cloud in the sky, the wiper suddenly kicked in for about 6-7 turns, coincidentally all lights (low beam & auto high beam) came on, interior lights/Nav screen all dimmed - to the level I adjusted for nightime driving.
The bolded statement for what you said is why I think all cars should have this standard if they come with auto lights. Having auto lights without auto rain detection means that I see a lot more people that I would like with their lights off when it's raining/snowing (making them are difficult to see) because they never have to think about their lights otherwise. I found myself starting to do this as well when I first bought my Outback. As a result, I turned off the auto lights so that I am in the habit of thinking about whether or not a situation requires my headlights every time I turn on my car.
 

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Hmm. I was very disappointed my outback didn't have rain sensing wipers.
That and speed adjusting radio I thought were standard features like power windows and AC.
 

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My Hyundai has rain sensing wipers. Haven't tested them out as we haven't had rain in a couple of months. My guess is that they'll annoy the crap out of me.

The OB and GC wouldn't be cross shopped by me. Note I'm not saying that they shouldn't be cross shopped like some morons here will scream, rather I see them for different purposes. GC=rugged, inefficient. OB=efficient, not rugged. If I were to consider the GC, it means that gas mileage means nothing. Therefore, why buy the lighter, less substantial vehicle? Gas mileage does matter a bit to me, so....

The OB is the jack of all trades, master of none. For most people, it represents a good compromise over other vehicles.
 

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Personally I like jeeps but I really don't think you compare them to the outback. They are two different vehicles and two different classes of vehicle. A Jeep is a full sized SUV and the Outback is a wagon and if you really want to stretch the description a crossover. They both have pros and cons but if you have to compare the two you probably would be better off with a Jeep because the Outback is not going to everything a Jeep can.
 

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Outback is a Legacy Wagon lifted ie a car which has car like features such as a nicer comfy ride over the choppy SUV ride the GC has. GC is built heavier to do SUV things like towing heavy trailers and doing the JEEP duty of rough off road etc.

Two different class vehicles which your description is the basic difference between the two classes regardless of which vehicle you compare car vs actual SUV.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The reason I am comparing the 2 vehicles is because the GC, Volvo XC 70 & Infinity G37 are some of the cars we liked most (we rented lots of cars throughout the years during our hiking trips & these are our favorites - GC is quiet & unlike any 'Jeep' we drove before, Volvo's seat is comfortable on 1000+ mile trips, & in G37 it's almost a requirement to accelerate when entering a corner). The Subaru is probably the best compromise to combine the best of all these cars (plus an AWD system that inspires confidence) - its seat is finally as comfortable as the Volvo's, it has the same if not more room than the GC & Volvo, it's ground clearance is high enough to beat a GC (unless GC has the lift suspension), it'll never be a G37 but certainly much better than the chubby GC & Volvo, especially w/ alignment tuned properly. We'll retire the 08 Outback at some point & is looking for an excuse not to buy another Subaru...

Buick? ('intellegent':rolleyes: AWD & scrape the curb ride height'?), Audi/VW/Volvo's 'awesome' reliability record? Is there anything out there around $35K+/- inspire the same amount of confidence/comfort/practicality? We are still searching....

Why not SUV: weight, weight, weight...unless you have monster tires. I recall on a trip to the North Cascades, we had a new GMC Yukon with High/Low 4WD. It drove like a UHaul (actually the 2013 GC drove like a UHaul...a very quiet comfortable UHaul, no kidding), on a not even 30 degree incline, I joked with my wife that I bet this car will slip a little...you got that right, all 4 wheels had ESC/Trac kicked in... when we approached the 2nd incline at 40+ degree, I gun the thing so momentum will carry it over the hill. In sand... it's a no brainer that everyone knows the benefit of a light vehicle + good AWD system - that's why in Mongolia desert, guides gut their SUVs to make their vehicles lighter. That's why I indicated earlier if you are going for a GC, go big!
 

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G35X my dad is really enjoying his I found it for him in August. He just texted me yesterday got his first ticket in over 28yrs. HA HA He didn't tell me how fast it was for. So guessing it was sizable

Fantastic CAR! I managed to get a little seat time at the wheel. It begs to go fast!
 

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My Hyundai has rain sensing wipers. Haven't tested them out as we haven't had rain in a couple months.
I am sure that Texas is nice but glad I don't live where you do...I would miss my winter snow..of which we are supposed to get our first significant amount tonight and tomorrow...yay! I guess in winter they become snow sensing wipers...
 

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A freind of mine drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee on an Italian "autostrada" recently for en extended period of time at max speed.... After about an hour or so, his engine blew up. He had his car towed to a repair shop there... the mechanics there were commenting that the ancient design, dating back to CJs in the WWII, is still being used at this day and age.....they advised him to "chuck" the Jeep....
However, the CEO of Fiat commented not long ago that Jeep Grand Cherokee has a "potential" for EU market. They are working on it ... wait a few years!
 

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A freind of mine drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee on an Italian "autostrada" recently for en extended period of time at max speed.... After about an hour or so, his engine blew up. He had his car towed to a repair shop there... the mechanics there were commenting that the ancient design, dating back to CJs in the WWII, is still being used at this day and age.....they advised him to "chuck" the Jeep....
However, the CEO of Fiat commented not long ago that Jeep Grand Cherokee has a "potential" for EU market. They are working on it ... wait a few years!
LOL - odd when the current GC shares more with the Mercedes products than it shares with any past Jeep product.
 

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It being a 2000 model is an important point to leave out, no? We're what, 13 model years past that? LOL I can't think of any 2000 model vehicle that would compare favorably to its new counterpart. Not to mention that ancient 4.0 I6 has been retired for a while now.

Scooby, one of the only positives to living down here is the relative lack of winter precip. We might get one or two ice/snow storms a year, but often we don't get any (like last year). Sure could use the rain, though. Tired of this extended drought.
 

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It being a 2000 model is an important point to leave out, no? We're what, 13 model years past that? LOL I can't think of any 2000 model vehicle that would compare favorably to its new counterpart. Not to mention that ancient 4.0 I6 has been retired for a while now.

Scooby, one of the only positives to living down here is the relative lack of winter precip. We might get one or two ice/snow storms a year, but often we don't get any (like last year). Sure could use the rain, though. Tired of this extended drought.
Guilty as charged....
 

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We bought a new 2013 Jeep GC Overland today. WOW what a nice vehicle. I have to say that I really like it but then it only has a couple hundred miles so far but there are lots of toys to play with it in. I still love my outback and the wife will be driving the GC most of the time.
now for what it cost, it should be nice. I think the aftermarket Garmin is a better gps but will have to play with the fancy one in the dash a little more to be sure.
my OB is a 2.5 cvt 2011 and is one of the best cars I have ever owned.
also the V8 Hemi in the GC looks like it will "stay thirsty my friend"
 

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Reliability is markedly different for the two different vehicles. Jeep has a reputation, as confirmed by Consumer Reports, to be the least, or one of the least reliable vehicles on the road, while Subaru has a reputation of being one of the most reliable. Reliability is one of the key factors to me when buying a car, which I why I own an Outback and an Impreza.
 
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