Subaru Outback Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys, I have used this site a lot to help with my problems but with this current one I'd like to try to narrow it down a bit.

I got my 2000 Subaru Outback stuck in water about 10 days ago.

Overall twice now while driving the CEL comes on, or pulses, car rattles when stopped, and acceleration is very poor, foot to the floor until about 35mph. Though between the first time and second time this happened I drove it about 1 1/2 hours and it drove very very well.

Other problem is sometimes, 3 times now, the car won't start within a hour of turning it off. Starter goes, battery is well. Starter fluid worked once to get it going.


I know this could be a million different things so here is a description of my experience the past 10 days, if anyone wants to read it it may clear some things up and give you a better idea of what I'm working with.

-Got it submerged about 1 1/2 feet or so in water, probably about 3 inches of water leaked onto the floor. Engine was NOT submerged.

-Got it out about 1 1/2 hours later and drained front end and back end, would not start, left it.

-Came back 20 hours later, started a bit but made horrible noises and would not idle, towed it out of there.

-Almost 2 days later we started it, was running well, lots of steam coming off around engine at first, and out the tailpipe. Drove it, cleaned it real well inside and underneath.

-Drove well for 2 days, then in the middle of the 2nd day it wouldn't start after being off for an hour. Battery good, starter was going well, just not firing. Came back a couple hours later with starter fluid, worked after a few tries. Drove it hard for a hour or so to heat things up.

-Started fine next day, but that night I stopped at the store and same starting problem. Starter fluid would not work. Left it at store.

-Came back in the morning and started fine, no starter fluid (notice the starting problem only happens within a hour or so of turning car off)

-Drove well, two days later car starts having bad acceleration, like not enough fuel is getting to engine, and shakes when I'm stopped in neutral. Sounds like it's going to stall when stopped but never does, real slow acceleration with pedal to the floor, once around 35 or so it picks up but I never go passed 3rd or 4th gear without car slowing down.

-Took out fuel filter (thought at the time I could clean it out without having to buy one) Emptied it out, kinda dark looking fuel. Went to start it but had the starting problem again so I couldn't tell if that worked for the shaking/accelerating problem.

-A day later it starts fine and runs beautifully, later that night I took it out and seemed to be running better than I ever remember, real smooth, fast, etc. This made me believe pouring out the dirty gas from my filter worked.

-Now today, started fine, was driving well until about 5 minutes in started rattling and having poor acceleration again, exactly the same as before. Drove it around like this and seemed to get a little better sometimes but is still driving bad. I figured an explanation for why this happened again could be because my fuel tank has crap in it that is getting into the filter, since it ran well after dumping out contents in filter, so I put high octane gas in and emptied filter again, but acceleration is still just as poor after doing this.

I'm not very car savy but I'm beginning to learn. Seems to me the rattling is a problem of fuel getting to engine, and that the starting is probably electrical (hence the randomness of usually starting but sometimes not)

I was planning on taking out my fuel injectors to see how they look tomorrow and maybe I'll be able to see inside the fuel tank a bit if things are dirty in there.


Any feedback or advice is much appreciated in advance!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,874 Posts
Are you going to replace the fuel filter? You need to. Sitting, the silt in the filter settles to the bottom. Once the fuel starts flowing through it, it moves around and may be causing restriction. Along with any other material the pump may be pulling up through the screen.

Sea Foam in the tank.

Don't bother with the injectors. Yet.

The pinging is detonation. Lack of fuel. Concentrate on the fuel delivery.

It was probably a coincidence that it started acting this way when you submerged it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Novablue: I don't have a code reader and have been trying to avoid going somewhere because I do not have much money, though do realize that I may need to if I can't figure it out myself.

Cardoc: You really think it was a coincidence? I guess my "fuel delivery" problem didn't happen until 5 days after the incident, but what about the starting problem? Do you think my fuel delivery problem is related to the starting problem?

Are there any ways to narrow it down to the fuel filter? I'd like to be a little more sure before I start buying parts, the ones up here are $35.

Thanks guys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ok now I just started it and it's running well again. This leads me to believe that the fuel problem is caused after the car has been running and not after it has been sitting.

Is that what you were saying cardoc, about the fuel filter settling silt on the bottom?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,342 Posts
If you have a smart phone you can get a code reader for about $15. I got one like this.

Since you have access to a computer, you can also get a USB cable that will connect the car to the computer and download a free program. It's best if you have a lap top for that option.

Most auto-parts stores will read codes for free unless you live in CA.

Fuel filter is highly suspect. One option you have is buy the filter and leave it unopened. Tear into the car. If you don't need it, just return it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,874 Posts
Ok now I just started it and it's running well again. This leads me to believe that the fuel problem is caused after the car has been running and not after it has been sitting.

Is that what you were saying cardoc, about the fuel filter settling silt on the bottom?
Could be trash in the tank getting sucked up on the screen.

It could also be the fuel pump failing. Sits, cools off, pumps fine. After running a while, builds heat, winding expands, quits working.

Could also be EVAP related. Not venting properly, the tank pressure builds up.

Could be a clogged charcoal canister.

There are a lot of possibilities. The known factor is the knocking and detonation due to lack of fuel. That narrows it down. Take the filter out of the chain altogether and splice the fuel hoses together and drive it that way to see what happens. If it does it again, fuel pump needs to be checked. If not, put a new filter on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ok so I ran the car without the filter and was still doing the same problem, this makes you think the next option is fuel pump? Any reason why you think that over the fuel injectors? Or are they the same thing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I scanned my computer system today and this is what I got.

P0335: Crankshaft position sensor A circuit malfunction
P0336: Crankshaft position range performance
P0340: Camshaft Pos bank 1 or single sensor
P0325: Knock sensor 1 circuit bank 1
P0505: Idle air control system
P0443 Evaporative emission system purge control valve circuit
P0301: Cylinder 1 misfire detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 misfire detected
P1133 DTC definition found, see service manual

As far as the cylinder misfiring that happened over a week ago, we started it without the 2 spark plugs in to try to drain anything that would be in the engine.

As far as the rest of these I have no clue what they mean or how old they are. I had my car running at the time and the fuel problem was not currently happening.

If anyone could give some speculation I'd appreciate it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
One more thing. Before I took the fuel filter off I had the shaking fuel problem. Took it off and ran car without the fuel going through filter, still happened. Then I put the fuel filter back on to drive to auto parts store and car ran well for 20 minutes, then shaking problem came back.

I can't make sense of that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,874 Posts
I scanned my computer system today and this is what I got.

P0335: Crankshaft position sensor A circuit malfunction
P0336: Crankshaft position range performance
P0340: Camshaft Pos bank 1 or single sensor
P0325: Knock sensor 1 circuit bank 1
P0505: Idle air control system
P0443 Evaporative emission system purge control valve circuit
P0301: Cylinder 1 misfire detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 misfire detected
P1133 DTC definition found, see service manual

As far as the cylinder misfiring that happened over a week ago, we started it without the 2 spark plugs in to try to drain anything that would be in the engine.

As far as the rest of these I have no clue what they mean or how old they are. I had my car running at the time and the fuel problem was not currently happening.

If anyone could give some speculation I'd appreciate it!

You have bad grounds or a bad battery. Check the amperage output of the battery. NOT voltage. AMPS.

Check the ground conductivity from the battery to the block, and again to the body of the car.

Check your alternator output, with a good battery.

If your battery checks out over 450 Amps, check the ground wires for corrosion, breaks or looseness. Clean or repair what you find that's "off".

Low amperage flow on a car is like a low battery on a laptop or phone. The programming slows down as there is not enough current to run programming and all the actuators.

If you have an automatic find it quick before it screws up your transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
You have bad grounds or a bad battery. Check the amperage output of the battery. NOT voltage. AMPS.

Check the ground conductivity from the battery to the block, and again to the body of the car.

Check your alternator output, with a good battery.

If your battery checks out over 450 Amps, check the ground wires for corrosion, breaks or looseness. Clean or repair what you find that's "off".

Low amperage flow on a car is like a low battery on a laptop or phone. The programming slows down as there is not enough current to run programming and all the actuators.

If you have an automatic find it quick before it screws up your transmission.
Thank you. It is a manual. I left it up here for 5 days when I went back home and came back to 7 inches of snow and it's not firing again.

How do you know it's bad grounds or bad battery? And how would I check amperage? I've been trying to figure out how to check for amperage without buy an expensive device. Also how would I check the ground conductivity?

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
The misfires on the 2 cylinders sound to me like the grounds or battery like cardoc said, but i would think it could maybe be the spark plugs
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,874 Posts
P0335: Crankshaft position sensor A circuit malfunction
P0336: Crankshaft position range performance
P0340: Camshaft Pos bank 1 or single sensor
P0325: Knock sensor 1 circuit bank 1
P0505: Idle air control system
P0443 Evaporative emission system purge control valve circuit
P0301: Cylinder 1 misfire detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 misfire detected
P1133 DTC definition found, see service manual

Because of these codes you pulled from your ECM, you have a conductivity issue. The battery may be showing 12V but it may be short of amperage supply. More than half these codes could be isolated to a bad ground on the intake manifold. There is a main ground lug from the harness that bolts to the intake and is the ground source for the sensors effected in this list.

Find the lost ground and you find your problem.

Easier than explaining how to use a DVOM, just get it to an auto parts store and ask them to check the battery amperage and do a load test. They can also check the amperage output by connecting the ground side of the meter to the intake manifold or alternator case. If the amperage from the batt is high, and the amps at the alt are low, you have a bad cable or connection on the ground side.

The amperage output for the battery shouldn't be less than 350 with a manual transmission, and that's pushing it.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
I would also add that the ground might not be loose but instead corroded from being submerged or in a humid environment. I suggest getting a small wire brush and a tube (not the small counter packs) of Dielectric grease. Then every ground you can find, unbolt and clean both sides (wire and car) with the wire brush, to the the point where the metal is shiny. Then coat the surfaces with the dielectric grease and reattach.

Also pull your battery cables and clean the wires and posts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi, just got a 97 Outback 3 weeks ago and it was just trapped in the Calgary floods. The water got to just the bottom of the air intake, not into it.
We killed the battery by accidentally leaving an interior light on and couldn't get to the car for 2 days.
Tried to boost it today and couldn't get it going, but it turned over and pushed water out the tail pipe, so doesn't appear to be water locked.
Any suggestions on starting it? Spark plugs?
We have to work on it where it is as they are still not allowing vehicles into the area - no tow trucks yet.
Is this car going to be toast, or is it worth trying to save?
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,836 Posts
Pull the plugs out - engine will have water in it via exhaust route. Change all the fluids good chance all of them now have water contamination especially the engine oil and diffs.
AT fluid also.

You will probably need to drain the gas tank given any extended periods of time sitting in water good chance the fuel system got water in it also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Thanks, we're also wondering where the computer is on this car - is it under the seat, if so it definitely got wet.
Sorry for asking fairly obvious questions, but as I mentioned, access to the car is limited at this time, so we want to find things out before returning to it, on foot with the required tools.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
About this Discussion
22 Replies
8 Participants
wetoutback
Subaru Outback Forums
Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews.
Full Forum Listing
Top