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Discussion Starter #1
Have a weird situation with my cruise control function. No CEL or any work been done lately.

When I go to set the cruise, downward push, it doesnt set. Try upward push and of course wont set. BUT when i pull the stalk toward me it sets and the set light illuminates on the dash. The problem is that is suppose to be the cancel function. Turn the car off and next time driving all the functions works correctly.
It only happens periodically when i use the cruise. Maybe a ground issue?



Attached is the stalk in my car
 

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Didn't this question just get posted a few days ago?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Didn't this question just get posted a few days ago?



Sorta yea! Just found the other post but looked like it was from an messing with the wiring. I havent done any work on the car in months and the issue just came up.
 

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Haha, seemed a bit familiar...


When strange electrical things start happening to switches, I like to break out some electronic cleaner and spray the contacts. In this case, I'd just spray it up into the wheel where the cruise arm enters the housing and work the switch through its range of motion to clear out any stray metallic flakes that may be causing issues. I've fixed a number of turn signal switches this way (thanks, GM) as well as a few wiper stalks.



Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Electronic-Cleaner-11/dp/B000BXOGNI
 

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does it fail at certain steering wheel positions? could be a roll connector problem.
 

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Have a weird situation with my cruise control function. No CEL or any work been done lately.

When I go to set the cruise, downward push, it doesnt set. Try upward push and of course wont set. BUT when i pull the stalk toward me it sets and the set light illuminates on the dash. The problem is that is suppose to be the cancel function. Turn the car off and next time driving all the functions works correctly.
It only happens periodically when i use the cruise. Maybe a ground issue?



Attached is the stalk in my car
If you set the cruise by pulling back and are driving on cruise, do all the stalk functions now work? Example: The downward push should initially Set the cruise, but once driving on cruise it would normally provide coast/deceleration, and pulling back not work to cancel?

There is a ground involved, but the same ground is used by the main on/off switch (button on the far end of the stalk) and the other functions of the stalk. If the ground were bad, the main switch wouldn't work as well. (See attached)

In regard to spraying, in one sense, unfortunately there's really no opening at or around the base of the switch stalk to spray inside. On the other hand, the cruise switch shares the same space as the driver airbag, which has two connections on the back. If contact cleaners etc could be easily sprayed into that area they could possibly affect the airbag operation. (Perhaps the lack of exposure was intentional, to prevent anything getting into the airbag module space.)
 

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does it fail at certain steering wheel positions? could be a roll connector problem.
That's always a possibility to consider, but also why I posted the wiring diagram. Because the various functions of the switch share wires back to the ECM, if there's a break in the roll connector, it would affect all the functions dependent on that wire. So, in the diagram, if the black ground at the bottom is bad (terminal 2), none of the switches would work. If the wire at terminal 3 is not continuous, then cancel, set/coast, and res/acc would not work. And, if the wire at terminal 1 is broken through the roll connector (or anywhere else), then the main switch wouldn't turn on the cruise or turn it off. So the particular symptoms in this case don't seem to be consistent with a bad roll connector.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If you set the cruise by pulling back and are driving on cruise, do all the stalk functions now work? Example: The downward push should initially Set the cruise, but once driving on cruise it would normally provide coast/deceleration, and pulling back not work to cancel?

No other functions work once set (pulling back). Up/Down or Cancel dont do anything. Only the ON/OFF switch will work and the brake will cancel the set as well.


I have noticed after today that cycling the ignition switch with key removed makes the stalk work correctly again for about 2 times of setting it at cruise then it gets confused again until a full ignition switch cycle.
 

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No other functions work once set (pulling back). Up/Down or Cancel dont do anything. Only the ON/OFF switch will work and the brake will cancel the set as well.
That's odd.


I have noticed after today that cycling the ignition switch with key removed makes the stalk work correctly again for about 2 times of setting it at cruise then it gets confused again until a full ignition switch cycle.
Not sure what you mean by cycling the ignition switch with the key removed. Normally, the ignition switch can't be turned if the key is out. I must be misunderstanding . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Not sure what you mean by cycling the ignition switch with the key removed. Normally, the ignition switch can't be turned if the key is out. I must be misunderstanding . . .

No i didnt explain it well sorry. So by cycling the ignition switch I meant this: Key inserted, start car, drive to test cruise, then stop car turn off ignition switch and remove key. (Some cars you have to remove the key for the immobilizer to activate but I dont have that just in the habit)


Based on the diagram you attached I am wondering if something in the stalk module like contacts on the board is going wacko??
 

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. . . So by cycling the ignition switch I meant this: Key inserted, start car, drive to test cruise, then stop car turn off ignition switch and remove key. . . .
Okay, so that seems similar to, or the same as, the report "Turn the car off and next time driving all the functions works correctly." in post #1 above.

When it doesn't work, have you tried just pulling off the road (as if you were going to cycle the switch) and then resume driving (without cycling the ignition)? If the problem is a bad connection through the roll connector, that could change when the steering wheel is turned to pull off and then resume, without the ignition cycling actually being a factor. (Or, pull off, and turn the steering back and forth before resuming driving.)

Based on the diagram you attached I am wondering if something in the stalk module like contacts on the board is going wacko??
Yes, that is possible, along with the roll connector (despite my post about it above) and more generally the connections between the switch and the ECM.

Has any work been done on the steering, e.g., on the rack, or steering column? (The roll connector is often damaged if the steering is disconnected and the steering wheel is turned beyond where it would normally be limited when everything is connected.)

Does the horn work? (Horn, and airbag connections also go through the roll connector.)

Was the passenger airbag recall done on the car and, if yes, when (how long before the cruise problem appeared)? (Given the significant disassembly of the whole dash, a connector might not have been reconnected properly.)

Any other work done in the engine compartment or cabin that could have disturbed connectors or wiring? (The wiring for the switch goes through connectors, including for the ground "A C/C4-03" in the diagram.)


A bit of explanation:

The cruise control switch is connected to two terminals on the ECM, namely C7 and C11. C7 is for the main switch turning the Cruise function on and off. When it's not pressed, there's 5 V at C7. When the switch is pressed, it grounds terminal C7 dropping voltage to near zero. That is interpreted by the ECM as a command to turn on, or turn off (if the cruise is already on), the main cruise function.

Similarly, when the stalk is moved up or down, or pulled back, the three corresponding switches change the voltage at terminal C11. C11 will have 3.5 - 4.5 V when the stalk is in the off position. When pulled back the voltage drops to near or at zero; when the stalk is moved down the voltage drops to around 1 V; when it's moved up, it drops to around 2 V.

Each of these changes at C11 from around 4 V to a different level is interpreted by the ECU as a specific command depending on the current state of the cruise control.

For example, when the cruise is on, but not set, the ECU will respond to a movement of the stalk, but only to when the voltage at C11 drops from around 4 V to 1V. Any other change in the voltage at C11 would be inconsistent with the cruise not already being set, so the ECM doesn't react. A drop from 4 V to 1 V is the "set" command, so the ECM sets the current speed.

In your case, only pulling back on the stalk sets the cruise, suggesting that closing the cancel switch drops the voltage to around 1 V. That triggers the "Set". But any other subsequent cruise control switch contact closing doesn't work (other than the main switch) because the resulting change in voltage at C11 (if there is a change) doesn't correspond to any valid command. (In other words, pulling back on the stalk changes the voltage from 4 to 1 V, but 1 V is not valid if the cruise is already "set". For the cancel function to work, it has to drop the voltage to zero.

That would be consistent with bad contacts in the switch, or a bad connection to the ECM that would be somewhat intermittent/inconsistent. I haven't seen the interior of the cruise switch to see how the switch contacts are set up, but in cases of bad switch contacts generally, repeated switching (moving of the stalk) sometimes results in at least a temporary return to operation. This doesn't seem to be the case here.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When it doesn't work, have you tried just pulling off the road (as if you were going to cycle the switch) and then resume driving (without cycling the ignition)? If the problem is a bad connection through the roll connector, that could change when the steering wheel is turned to pull off and then resume, without the ignition cycling actually being a factor. (Or, pull off, and turn the steering back and forth before resuming driving.)

Yes, that is possible, along with the roll connector (despite my post about it above) and more generally the connections between the switch and the ECM.

Has any work been done on the steering, e.g., on the rack, or steering column? (The roll connector is often damaged if the steering is disconnected and the steering wheel is turned beyond where it would normally be limited when everything is connected.)

Does the horn work? (Horn, and airbag connections also go through the roll connector.)

Was the passenger airbag recall done on the car and, if yes, when (how long before the cruise problem appeared)? (Given the significant disassembly of the whole dash, a connector might not have been reconnected properly.)

Have not tried pulling off the road and resuming without ignition cycle yet...will try next.
No work has been done to the car in over a year and the problem just showed up last week.
Haven't tried the horn when the cruise is acting up, will try next time as well.


Yes the pass. air bag was done 2 years ago but all last summer the cruise worked fine no issues.


Excellent explanation of the wiring for the system. I am trying to think simple as no work has been done to the car for a long time and usually when i start looking into things I skip the simple things first and then later come to find out after lots of work that I should have started simple, you know I tell myself, K.I.S.S!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Update from today: All the functions worked on the cruise normally. However, after using the cruise and coming to a stop and then turning left or right the light turns off on the dash. I then push on/off button and light comes on the dash again and then after a few minutes of driving but not using cruise any left or right slight turn shuts off the light on the dash. But when the cruise is set on the highway when i make left or right 45 degree turns everything stay set and light stays on.

Each time the cruise light went out i tested the horn and it worked.
Sounds like the actual stalk module no?
 

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Update from today: All the functions worked on the cruise normally. However, after using the cruise and coming to a stop and then turning left or right the light turns off on the dash. I then push on/off button and light comes on the dash again and then after a few minutes of driving but not using cruise any left or right slight turn shuts off the light on the dash. But when the cruise is set on the highway when i make left or right 45 degree turns everything stay set and light stays on.

Each time the cruise light went out i tested the horn and it worked.
Sounds like the actual stalk module no?
The symptom you describe here is somewhat different. Originally the set/coast etc., stalk positions were the problem, but not the main Cruise on/off function, which wasn't reported being problematic. However, now, the overall cruise on/off state is changing. (Perhaps it wasn't noticed earlier.) This is a different area of the cruise control switch wiring; separate contacts (within the cruise control switch assembly) and a different terminal at the ECM.

If my understanding of the way the switch works is correct, for the main cruise to be turned on or off, terminal C7 of the ECM has to be grounded. (This is what happens when the main switch button is pressed.) Consequently, it appears that when turning the steering wheel, something is grounding that terminal. It could be a loose part inside the cruise control switch that changes position as the steering wheel is rotated, although I tend to give this less probability. The roll connector seems more likely, in particular, some wires in the flat, winding, ribbon being broken or chafed and intermittently touching each other. I'm not sure, but it looks as if the three wires for the cruise control switch might be next to each other in the roll connector itself, with the main switch wire (terminal 1 of ST3) being beside to the ground wire (terminal 2 of ST3), and the ground is next to the wire for the other stalk functions (terminal 3 of ST3). So grounding either of the other two is a possibility.

I don't recall any post etc., where the cruise control switch is disassembled (for a closer look), but I'm fairly sure there's one somewhere here where the roll connector was opened. There's probably something on YouTube as well.

As the switch wiring goes through connector ST1 to B68, if they could be located, and ST1 disconnected, it might be possible to test between the three wires from the switch at ST1 for shorting while the steering wheel is being turned. This might confirm that the problem is originating at the steering wheel (which sort of seems apparent now). At that point, the next step would be to remove the airbag module and see if there's access to the opposite side of the roll connector (cruise switch). If the cruise switch is disconnected, the same test for intermittent shorting can be repeated; this would isolate the fault to the roll connector.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The symptom you describe here is somewhat different. Originally the set/coast etc., stalk positions were the problem, but not the main Cruise on/off function, which wasn't reported being problematic. However, now, the overall cruise on/off state is changing. (Perhaps it wasn't noticed earlier.) This is a different area of the cruise control switch wiring; separate contacts (within the cruise control switch assembly) and a different terminal at the ECM.

Correct, I noticed how things were different yesterday then the previous day. I pay close attention to the the dash and never before have I had the Cruise light turn off on the dash by itself. The reason I suspect the cruise control stalk is how different both days symptoms were. Also no airbag light is showing on the dash and the horn is working.
The stalk has a wiring loom that connects to the roll connector and im wondering if something either in that loom or in the contacts in the box of the stalk are going bad since the stalk turns with the steering wheel i wonder if a wire or connection is loose in that loom.
I much prefer to replace that then the roll connector, price wise.

I could disconnect the cruise wire at the roll connector and check the ohms of the pins of the wiring loom especially as i turn the wheel, with the battery disconnected of course. (see attached from FSM)

This car, 2005, only has 75K miles and has always been in climate controlled garage and is driven mainly in the summer on paved roads so its been well protected which makes me wonder how a roll connector could fail in that situation.
 

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Correct, I noticed how things were different yesterday then the previous day. I pay close attention to the the dash and never before have I had the Cruise light turn off on the dash by itself. The reason I suspect the cruise control stalk is how different both days symptoms were. Also no airbag light is showing on the dash and the horn is working.
The stalk has a wiring loom that connects to the roll connector and im wondering if something either in that loom or in the contacts in the box of the stalk are going bad since the stalk turns with the steering wheel i wonder if a wire or connection is loose in that loom.
I much prefer to replace that then the roll connector, price wise.

I could disconnect the cruise wire at the roll connector and check the ohms of the pins of the wiring loom especially as i turn the wheel, with the battery disconnected of course. (see attached from FSM)

This car, 2005, only has 75K miles and has always been in climate controlled garage and is driven mainly in the summer on paved roads so its been well protected which makes me wonder how a roll connector could fail in that situation.
I think you're on the right track, at least to determine if the switch or its wiring loom (harness) is at fault. With the harness disconnected from the roll connector, that also isolates the roll connector so if the switch doesn't show anything strange, then checking the roll connector (to connector ST1 at B68) could be the next step.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think you're on the right track, at least to determine if the switch or its wiring loom (harness) is at fault. With the harness disconnected from the roll connector, that also isolates the roll connector so if the switch doesn't show anything strange, then checking the roll connector (to connector ST1 at B68) could be the next step.

Thanks for all the info...will post update after digging in.
 

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my gut feeling is, some gen 3 models have had bad solder joints on various PC boards...could be something just needs a touch-up with a soldering iron somewhere....
 
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