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2009 2.5i SE PZEV Newport Blue
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525 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am so frustrated with designers and engineers all collaborating.
DRLs were first installed to be on with all four corners of vehicle.
I've noticed more + more Subaru with only the front lights on; I walked around mine, and only see front on.

I used to own vehicles whose lights would never go off. Much safer!

Now I have started to look at vehicles on-coming and see in mirror that there are no rear lights on! It's really tragic that all which reduces being seen in bad weather. Some vehicles have "rear fog" light, which is a stronger bulb in left rear, which allows one to be very aware of a moving vehicle in front of me! I want others to know that I am a moving vehicle; lights off is no help! Our safety is at risk. Subaru engineers should add a rear fog!!!
 

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2011 SSM Outback 2.5i Premium
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Last I knew DRLs were originally front-only lighting, and still are. They originated in Canada (in the Americas anyway) and have made their way to the US. I remember back in the 90's seeing Canadian vehicles with DRLs and they were front-only, and usually one of the normal headlight levels (high or low beam) at a reduced power.

I often see vehicles in the rain running just DRLs when headlights are required when running wipers in my state.
 

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2009 2.5i SE PZEV Newport Blue
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525 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, I've been used to European vehicles, mine and seeing in Europe.

I understand what you are saying, BUT I want to be visible in inclement weather, so I ask the engineers why not rear also; they could also build in no ability to turn off all lights, which my Saab in the 90's had lights always on.

Many drivers do not think; I agree with the state laws requiring lights on when wipers on. Unfortunately, there are times driving in snowstorm and wipers are not on (snow not sticking to windshield), so the law of lights on is doing nothing. However, I want others to see me and know I am a moving vehicle, which is when headlights and rear are on, and remain on!
 

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2011 SSM Outback 2.5i Premium
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If they're going to turn on rear lights in all conditions, why not have all lights on all the time and forgo the switch in general. Being visible in inclement weather is exactly why many states require lights when using wipers.

Along those lines, why should the manufacturer HAVE to do those things for you? Anyone driving a vehicle should be able to determine the appropriate times for light usage.
 

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Subaru engineers should add a rear fog!!!
No car manufacturer will add a rear fog light until the government mandates it.
 

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'13 OB, Black, SAP
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271 Posts
You can always do what Jogosub did and add the feature yourself.

Sorry, I've been used to European vehicles, mine and seeing in Europe.

I understand what you are saying, BUT I want to be visible in inclement weather, so I ask the engineers why not rear also; they could also build in no ability to turn off all lights, which my Saab in the 90's had lights always on.

Many drivers do not think; I agree with the state laws requiring lights on when wipers on. Unfortunately, there are times driving in snowstorm and wipers are not on (snow not sticking to windshield), so the law of lights on is doing nothing. However, I want others to see me and know I am a moving vehicle, which is when headlights and rear are on, and remain on!
 

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2001, European Outback, H6
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150 Posts
The corner lights don't come on the the DRL because the DMV thinks that the brake lights are less visible if the rear lights are on in daytime. I really think that this is bullshit since there is always the third brake light that will add more visibility.

I don't have DRL on my 2001 Euro spec Outback but I will add them to the highbeams with ~50% dimming by a pwm-modul. But I will make the corner lights come on at the same time! I believe that it is much safer this way.
 

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2019 Bronze Limited
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205 Posts
Just be aware, if you add the rear fogs that you can't add it as a white or clear light like some vehicles are set up for. I know Euro specced VW's have a single white light in the back for rear fogs, but in some states it is illegal for any color other than red to be displayed on the rear of the vehicle.
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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...but in some states it is illegal for any color other than red to be displayed on the rear of the vehicle.
I suspect you meant illuminated, not displayed, and still that couldn't be right. If that was the case, most vehicles wouldn't be legal in those states, as today most have clear lights for backup lights, and lots have amber turn signals.

Seems to me when Canada first implemented DRLs, it was ALL of your lights on all of the time, not just headlights. Not sure what the case is now.
 

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2009 2.5i SE PZEV Newport Blue
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525 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
"Rear fog light" is not best name.
Many times I have been on US interstate highways, including New Jersey Turnpike, in very foggy rainy days, and been passed by vehicles with the left rear light far stronger than the right.
There are pros & cons to any parts of any vehicle!
Sometimes European engineers have validity.
They I think were first to use headlight flashing; fast cars on Autonahn highways flashed their headlights as an info telling us they'd be along to pass, soon.

BTW, it's really proven to be safer that amber turn signals are better than red in the rear.

I never intended to state that rear "fog" light be clear/white; yes that's back up light. Someone along the way misunderstood.
 

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2013 2.5i Premium 6mt, Twilight Blue
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^ This side of the pond you're not just dealing with the mechanical issues but the social ones as well.

Headlight flash someone over here to kindly move out of the way and at minimum you'll get the middle finger, but more likely that person will sit in the fast lane and drive even slower.

People drive without lights on in rain, fog, at dusk and nighttime. Police don't take the time to pull over people with headlight bulbs out or NO working brake lights!

You're worried about the vehicle, that's fair. I'm more concerned about the morons behind the wheel. $0.02
 

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2019 Bronze Limited
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205 Posts
I don't think you stated it be clear. I have just seen on the VW forums some peeps wire them up, and the spot in the tailights for them was clear.

I agree with more safety and less morons! The gene pool could use some chlorine!

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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Seems to me when Canada first implemented DRLs, it was ALL of your lights on all of the time, not just headlights. Not sure what the case is now.
The DRL requirement related to front headlights and was intended to highlight cars coming in the opposite direction in order to reduce the incidence of head-on collisions.

My 92 Geo had DRLs that were "reduced intensity" low beam headlights, but no other lights. My 07 Outback DRL operation has all clearance and tail lights lit along with "reduced intensity" low beam headlights. The 2008 (or was it 2009?) Outback DRL was only the front high beam bulb at reduced intensity -- no clearance or tail lights.

I like the idea of the tail lights on for increased visibility, and it's handy when in rain or going through tunnels -- all lights are already on -- but having been rear-ended in clear, dry, conditions I'm with AO River; it's the person behind to be worried about, and if they are distracted and not paying attention, the additional lights aren't going to guarantee anything.
 

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2005 3.0 R n totaled
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I think daylight DRLs started in Scandinavia back in the 60's. It's dark there for some 6 months or more each and every year! They spread all over Europe after TuV approved them in Germany. They eventually spread to these shores through Canada. Similar with rear fog lights except they haven't made it here as yet.
I have installed a pair of Philips 10 DRLs (as JCBER mentioned) along with others, like Budaru (see pics below). He just recently moved them back to the same location as me: lower opening of the grille, from lower grille opening. They are better looking there and less exposed to possible flying rocks.
I am just about finished with my rear fog lights. I will have them at the same spot as 2013 OEMs in EU; i.e. left backup light will become rear fog light. I am sacrifying left backup light for red fog light. I am replacing (adding) the mirror adjustment switch - adding a fog light switch in the current blank spot, next to the mirror adjustment knob.
I will be posting wiring and pictures within a week or so. Work in progress...
Although not discussed here, I am also toying with an idea of adding a tunnel through the back seat(s) so that I can put the skis through there after you flip down the rear center elbow rest...I have an upholestery shop looking at various options, possibly copying VW or Audi designs...
 

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^ This side of the pond you're not just dealing with the mechanical issues but the social ones as well.

Headlight flash someone over here to kindly move out of the way and at minimum you'll get the middle finger, but more likely that person will sit in the fast lane and drive even slower.

People drive without lights on in rain, fog, at dusk and nighttime. Police don't take the time to pull over people with headlight bulbs out or NO working brake lights!

You're worried about the vehicle, that's fair. I'm more concerned about the morons behind the wheel. $0.02
You can add road rage and gunshots to the list of hazards if you flash your high beams at other motorists...especially Ca.
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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In Oregon, using your horns or flash-to-pass has pretty much been put in the law as 'road rage' and is a citable offense.

The biggest downside I see to DRLs is that most modern cars also have always illuminated dashboards, so tons of people drive around with just DRLs on, without a clue.
 

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2009 2.5i SE PZEV Newport Blue
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Discussion Starter #18
In Oregon, using your horns or flash-to-pass has pretty much been put in the law as 'road rage' and is a citable offense.

The biggest downside I see to DRLs is that most modern cars also have always illuminated dashboards, so tons of people drive around with just DRLs on, without a clue.
I've started to see some truckers flash to pass, when there is considerable distance: a horn would never be heard. Flash to pass, is a heads up! And that's the intent on European highways with very high or no speed limits posted.

And yes, lots of drivers have no clue about many common sense. I was once stopped at an interstate rest area to go inside; I parked a few car lengths from three State Police who were cleaning their windshields of bugs. Struck up a conversation as an incident happened back 50 miles. Their mission that afternoon was to pull over and cite drivers who hog the left lane!
I complemented them!
 

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2011 Outback Limited 2.5i/2018 Crosstrek limited
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2005 OBW 2.5 5speed
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I disabled my DRL because I go tired of changing bulbs. It also keeps my wife from driving around at night without the lights on.
 
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