Dealer Dishonest?

2959 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Saint J VT, Dec 4, 2012

gspec

Discussion Starter · Dec 3, 2012

I went to this dealer this morning to get an oil change and tire rotation. After everything was done, I confirmed with the service writer that the tire rotation was done too.

When I got to the office an hour later, I noticed that they didn't actually rotate the tires. This is how I know: It just that happened a couple days before the service, some painter drop a bucket of paint next to my car, and small amount splashed on my tire. I remember it was right front tire because a little paint also splashed on the front corner and headlight but it was water based so easily wiped off plastic and paint, but not off the rubber tire.

So I thought that's fine maybe there was some mis-communication between the service manager/writer with the technician. So I called the dealer, and asked the service writer whether they have done the tire rotation or not. I told him upfront that I didn't think they did. He said he sure that they did. So I asked him to confirmed with his technician. So he checked with the technician and told me that the technician confirmed that tire rotation was done. And here when I told him about the paint marking. And he told me they didn't cross rotate, just switched front and back. I told him I am sure that is not done either. He said "I don't have reasons not to believe what the technician said"

About 5 minutes later, he called me back and apologized. He told me that the technician was mistaken my car with other cars he worked on between 8AM to 11AM

How many cars did he work on in 3 hours? Actually 2 hours because he probably spent 1 hours on mine.
And the reason he didn't rotate the tires because the thread is still the same. I told him the technician should have told him that earlier and put it on invoice, because I have the prepaid service plan. That means the tire rotation already paid for.
He asked me to bring the car back and I said "No, thank you".

I told the service writer that I have given them enough chance to come up clean. If he was not sure, he should have reconfirmed it, again, with the technician.

I really don't know if this is a real dis-honesty and laziness or just mis-communication. But I cannot trust that dealer anymore.

Do you guys think they are dishonest or this is only a mis-communication? What do you think about the technician decision on not performing a service already paid and not putting on the invoice?

Would you go back to that dealer if you were me?

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1 - 16 of 16 Posts

rico567

· #2 · Dec 3, 2012

Based on this amount of information, it's very difficult to say. It may be deliberate dishonesty (they didn't perform the work and said they did). It may be confusion, as claimed (the wires got crossed in communication between the tech and the service writer). Or, it may just be plain old "fell through the cracks." Maybe it wasn't written up correctly, maybe the tech was in a hurry and skimmed over it.

I would bet on Murphy before I would assume, based on the OP, that the service department is systematically not doing the operations they're supposed to.

MUSTBF8

· #3 · Dec 3, 2012

gspec said:
Would you go back to that dealer if you were me?

I've spent many years dealing with customer service issues owning an IT company for years. The customer is the reason you have a job. If customers have questions, they deserve to be answered correctly. This service manager blew you off and gave you the answer you wanted to hear. Only when you came back with information that proved them wrong is when they finally admitted the mistake.

The IT world and auto service industry share a similar dynamic, the customer doesn't always fully understand what you are doing for them (but some customers do). It seems like you gave them enough rope to hang themselves and they did. I would move on to another dealer who will appreciate your business.

My $.02

Reactions: 1

iainb

· #4 · Dec 3, 2012

gspec said:
How many cars did he work on in 3 hours? Actually 2 hours because he probably spent 1 hours on mine.

You're kidding yourself if you think they spent 1 hour on your car. Closer to 30 minutes is more likely.

Reactions: 1

gspec

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 3, 2012

iainb said:
You're kidding yourself if you think they spent 1 hour on your car. Closer to 30 minutes is more likely.

Well I just give them benefit of the doubt

I might over analyze here, but let's do it anyway. Assume he spends 30 minutes per car, so from 8AM to 11AM (when I called), he has worked on 5 cars excluding mine, assuming he worked non-stop. I counted there are only 3 other customers when I was there. Maybe there are some works from the previous days/weeks? How many of them needed tire rotation.
While it is possible, it is very unlikely that the same technician has worked on 5 cars that morning.
So what is the chance here that he confused my car with some other cars? Not to mention that the technician actually gave elaborate explanation on why he didn't do the rotation, which tells me that he was very aware what he was doing. Possible he got confused.., but very unlikely in my opinion.

Saint J VT

· #6 · Dec 3, 2012

If their office paperwork-trail and system is so bad that they cannot honestly KNOW whether they did or did not rotate your tires, would you trust them to rebuild a transmission or an engine?:gasp:

:17:
I certainly WOULDN'T!
Think how many leftover parts there would be

, bolts missing, bolts not torqued properly:gasp:, the wrong parts installed, wrong fluids

, ad nauseam.:17:

A first-class outfit wouldn't have these problems. However you won't find one because they are ALL RipOFF ARTISTS, every last one of them.

:17:

NO, I WOULD NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH THEM AGAIN, and I would tell them why!

That is one reason why I never buy any extra warranty over and above what they offer from the start. I will either let my own mechanic do the work or I do the work myself. I've been taken far too many times since I started driving my own cars during the last century!

Novablue

· #7 · Dec 3, 2012

gspec said:
While it is possible, it is very unlikely that the same technician has worked on 5 cars that morning.
So what is the chance here that he confused my car with some other cars?

I'll be devils advocate here as I've worked in the service dept of a dealer. Techs will usually work on 2-3 cars at the same time. When you are at home and you change your oil you are only working on one car. At a dealer they want to be...ahem... efficient so while your car is draining oil they will be working on a timing belt or whatever on another car. This means a couple of things: 1) It's real easy for a tech to get confused and it take longer to do the one task even though over all they are being more productive for the dealership, 2) It's real easy to make a honest mistake, 3) It's real easy to confuse what you did to what car.

I have yet to see a dealership that doesn't operate this way.

It is not uncommon for techs to cut corners when working on 2-3 cars and skip serviced that they feel (arbitrarily) are not necessary. Techs that don't skip stuff usually don't keep their jobs (why I left the industry).

Are all dealerships like this? I hope not. But most of the ones in my area are like this.

So if I were to guess, the Tech was told to change the oil and rotate the tires. Oil changes are noticeable (color) so that was given priority. After 45 min. of doing something else he refilled the oil and quickly visually inspected the tires and saw they looked "fine." He then released the car.

That's assuming everyone is being honest.

It's good the manager actually followed up after you embarrassed him. It's too bad that's what it took. I'd be more concerned about the interaction with that manager than the tech. The manager handled that exchange with you poorly,

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Se7enLC

· #8 · Dec 3, 2012

Not uncommon. I've had this happen with alignments, too. Ruined a set of tires when a dealer claimed to have done an alignment but didn't. Now I always request a printout after doing an alignment, and I will often take it to a second place to get it checked.

I like to hide the wheel lock keys so that they will have to call me to find out where they are in order to do a tire rotation. If they don't call me, I know they haven't done the rotation. Or they were resourceful and found the keys - in which case, I will usually find them in a new location - on the seat or in the glovebox or something.

gspec

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 3, 2012

Novablue said:
... Techs will usually work on 2-3 cars at the same time. When you are at home and you change your oil you are only working on one car. At a dealer they want to be...ahem... efficient so while your car is draining oil they will be working on a timing belt or whatever ...

It's good the manager actually followed up after you embarrassed him. It's too bad that's what it took. I'd be more concerned about the interaction with that manager than the tech. The manager handled that exchange with you poorly,

Novablue, thanks for the input. I suspected they are multitasking too. I understand about efficiency and have no problem with that as long as it doesn't sacrifice quality.

There are a couple things about the dealer that bothers me:
1. They don't understand what the Prepaid Maintenance Service means. It means that customer and SOA and its dealerships already agree for a set of service to be delivered for a specified amount of money already paid ahead of time. If the service is not needed, but no harm would be done if it is performed.., just do it.., because they are already paid for. No excuse to skip it just because is not needed. I already paid for that labor.
2. They are hasty. If they cannot communicate a simple thing like that.., like the other poster said, do I want them to work on my engine on more complicated stuffs

??? Again I understand efficiency, but not at quality and safety expense.

cerbomark

· #10 · Dec 3, 2012

Lazy at best.... or maybe incompetent, or worse, dishonest. Either way I d find another shop to care for my car.

blafayette

· #11 · Dec 4, 2012

This happened to me at a Toyota dealer recently. I marked the tires as I suspected they had not done the rotation on a previous service as well. I had to argue with them to remove the item for the work they did not perform from the bill. I will never go back to that stealership again. Unfortunately this is more common than one would care to know. The California attorney general's office is full of settlements with major car repair companies for services not performed. Sears is often cited. I mark the parts to be changed and ask for replacement parts back all the time now.

Cobalt

· #12 · Dec 4, 2012

I got the opposite of work not being done during my recent trip to the dealer.

The service writer said they can't do an alignment because my car is perfect, the work order specifically states that NO adjustments were made but my alignment sheet showed they did indeed adjust the front toe by quite a bit and the car drives so much better like night and day so even if I didn't get a sheet I would have known they did something.

The other side of the coin I had a Toyota Celica that had a miss I couldn't get rid of, my last attempt to fix it I bought a brand new set of cap and plug wires, it didn't get rid of the miss so I took the car to the dealer, they did several things and tried to charge me for cap and wire assembly claiming they found two of the plug boots had a cracks in them.
I asked to see the parts and the plug boots had greasy tennis shoes track marks on them plain as day where someone had stepped on them.
I knew it wasn't me because I had just installed them the day before and I would have noticed it, I argued about it and the tech came out and tried to claim he must have stepped on it after he discovered it was bad
I never went back there again.

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Novablue

· #13 · Dec 4, 2012

gspec said:
Novablue, thanks for the input. I suspected they are multitasking too. I understand about efficiency and have no problem with that as long as it doesn't sacrifice quality.

There are a couple things about the dealer that bothers me:
1. They don't understand what the Prepaid Maintenance Service means. It means that customer and SOA and its dealerships already agree for a set of service to be delivered for a specified amount of money already paid ahead of time. If the service is not needed, but no harm would be done if it is performed.., just do it.., because they are already paid for. No excuse to skip it just because is not needed. I already paid for that labor.
2. They are hasty. If they cannot communicate a simple thing like that.., like the other poster said, do I want them to work on my engine on more complicated stuffs ??? Again I understand efficiency, but not at quality and safety expense.

I wouldn't even let them change my oil.

Find a good indy shop near you. Ask people you know and forget the dealer.

gspec

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 4, 2012

Novablue said:
Find a good indy shop near you. Ask people you know and forget the dealer.

I have a shop that I think I can trust. I take my other older car there.
However, stupid me

, I bought that stupid prepaid maintenance plan without knowing any good dealer in town (my previous place I had a reliable Subaru dealer worked on my 1st OB)
So I would be losing about 1 grand if I don't use the plan until 45k miles.

gspec

Discussion Starter · #15 · Dec 4, 2012

blafayette said:
... The California attorney general's office is full of settlements with major car repair companies for services not performed. ...

If you think about it, charging customers for something that are not actually performed is a lot worse than selling customers something they don't need.
At least on the later, customers actually get something they pay for.
Not to mention the first one is a crime, while I don't think it is a crime to sell someone something they don't need (right?)

Saint J VT

· #16 · Dec 4, 2012

Dealer vs Stealer.....

I have had my share of dealer service department problems.
In fact, it would be safe to say that out of all the dealers I have purchased new vehicles from, every one has given me some sort of problem, or has not done a proper job on what it was they were supposed to be repairing or replacing.

It gets to the point where, after the warranty is up, I go to a local mechanic or do the work myself.

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