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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello folks,

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I'll get to it. I've got a 2014 Outback Wagon 2.5 CVT, the chain/guides are pretty noisy and I'm planning to replace the whole transmission. I'm trying to figure out what all would interchange and be a "plug and play" option. From the research I have done I know that the 2014 Wagon has a TR580KHEBA and the 2014 Sedan has a TR580KHEAA designation. Is the only difference the Torque Converter? How about a TR580GHDBA in a 2015 sedan or a TR580SHACA in a 2015 wagon? Any light to illuminate any differences would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

According to Hollander interchange (salvage yard software) it is 2014 only, Wagon only, 2.5l only....
 

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My man!

I'm in the same boat as you. The CVT on my 2013 OB has been howling for about 2k miles now.

So here's what I've learned in my own research: i have been told that Outback, Legacy, forester all have different drive ratios. So if you even want a chance at using the CVT out of a Legacy of the same year, then you probably have to swap the rear diff as well, because the front diff is built into the transmission.

From what i can tell, the different generations of this transmission are 2013, 2014, and 2015-2017. If you had bought your car one year later, you would have a much wider selection.

One of the big differences between 2013 and 2014 is that after Jan 1, 2014 they started putting the improved torque converter into the transmissions.

If you really want to go deep, then you can go here and find compare the parts within the transmission that are same/different across years and models. https://parts.subaru.com I started comparing my 2013 to a 2015, and they looked really simialr until I hit the page that lists planetary gears.

I talked to at least 6 different local places that deal with subarus (2 dealers, 3 indy shops, and 1 transmission shop). One of the indy guys said he could make a 2015 OB trans work in my 2013. Everyone else says they've tried to use something other than an original replica, and it bit them in the ass. They all say that the computer rejects it like a bad kidney transplant.

As one mechanic said: "There's probably a way to make it work, but someone has to put in the time to figure it out."

The shitty part is that no one rebuilds these transmissions, and no one is willing to crack one open to find the problem. they all think ghosts whill fly out if you open a dying transmission. Whatever. The day this one comes out, I'm tearing it down.

Tonight, I just drained/refilled my trans just to see what's inside the fluid. I caught the fluid in an clean pan and dragged a magnet through all the fluid and only found a single metal speck. The fluid old had about 8k miles on it and it was kinda dirty.
 

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Right now, my temporary fix for this problem is: I bought a used VW. I can't find any decent used transmissions, the old one is grinding, and the dealer wants almost $8k for a new one. So I'm putting my outback in the garage until I can find a cheap used CVT locally.
 

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Hello folks,

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I'll get to it. I've got a 2014 Outback Wagon 2.5 CVT, the chain/guides are pretty noisy and I'm planning to replace the whole transmission. I'm trying to figure out what all would interchange and be a "plug and play" option. From the research I have done I know that the 2014 Wagon has a TR580KHEBA and the 2014 Sedan has a TR580KHEAA designation. Is the only difference the Torque Converter? How about a TR580GHDBA in a 2015 sedan or a TR580SHACA in a 2015 wagon? Any light to illuminate any differences would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

According to Hollander interchange (salvage yard software) it is 2014 only, Wagon only, 2.5l only....

Cars101.com lists the final drive ratio as different between the wagon (3.90) and the sedan(3.70). This would mean that the transmissions are NOT interchangeable because they need to be matched to the rear end gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Cars101.com lists the final drive ratio as different between the wagon (3.90) and the sedan(3.70). This would mean that the transmissions are NOT interchangeable because they need to be matched to the rear end gear.
I noticed that also, but the differential is a replaceable part of the transmission so options could be:

1. Swap front differential from old transmission to replacement transmission
2. buy Sedan transmission with rear differential and TCM (shows slightly different part number) and hope everything else will "jive"
3. spend 3 times the money for a transmission with 3 times as many miles out of an actual wagon.

thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I also see that the 2015-2017 outback SEDAN uses a 3.90 ratio, but the TCM mounts on top of the tranny... would the plugs off the tranny still plug into my 2014 harness? (my TCM is behind the dash)
 

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Hey man, where have you gotten with this? Honestly, I've found some decently priced 2014 OB CVTs. Cheaper than the version in my 2013. For some reason, everyone thinks they were made of gold in 2013.

Tonight, I went to the parts.subaru.com site and printed off every parts sheet for both the 2013 and 2014 CVTs, and I went line-by line through each one to find the differences. Looks like there are about 10 different parts between the two years.

If you are really looking to do a 2014 > 2015 swap, I would sugest you do the same thing. Took me about 40 - 60 minutes, but now I am going to have an idea of what's actually different. I know it sounds like a boring hassle, but it's good to know if any of the internals are different. You can always swap the external sensors or a front or rear diff, but if some of the gears inside are different, you could have major problems.
 

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I did a little bit of looking around at the subaru parts site. I'm trying to see if a local 2016 Outback CVT will fit my 2013. The big differences I've see so far:

  • The relay box under the dash in a 2013-14 vs a 2015+ is completely different.
  • The computers mount in completely different places. So presumably there are big differences in the wiring harnesses. But from what I've heard, getting a computer from a different model year will not work with your ECU. So this is more of a question of "How can I make this transmission work with my existing computer?"
  • Like previously mentioned, there are different final driveline ratios. That might be solved with swapping the rear diff with the transmission. Yeah, your speedo might not be 100% accurate after this, but who cares?
  • The parts site lists an entire oil cooler assembly for the 2015+ transmissions that are not shown in the 2013-2014 ones.
I'm going to do a line-by-line look comparison of the two transmissions today. Will post my findings in another thread when I'm done.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Ok, I finally had time to work on my 2014 Legacy Outback Wagon CVT. Here's what I ended up doing. I noticed that the 2014 Wagon and the 2016 Sedan have the same final drive ratio, which is important since the front differential is basically integral with the Transmission (at least I wasn't willing to swap them) I also went this route because the prices and selections of used ones on Car-Part.com was WAY better than the 14 wagons. I knew going in that the TCM (Transmission Computer) was different as in my 14 wagon it mounts behind the glove box and on the 16 sedan it mounts on top of the transmission itself AND they were made by different manufacturers. So I ordered up a transmission out of a 2016 Legacy Sedan that had 7,000 miles on it for $275 plus shipping and got to it. the ONLY things that will need to be swapped is the top cover (held on by 12 10mm bolts on top of the transmission) and the cooler lines (unbolt from case). The top cover of the transmission uses a metal gasket and I did reuse it with no problem, once the cover is off, you will see a white electrical plug that attaches the top cover to the transmission, simply unplug it and use the cover and wiring harness off of your original transmission. I will attempt to upload some pictures.
IMG_0611.jpg
IMG_0599.jpg
IMG_0600.jpg
IMG_0605.jpg
 

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I'm REALLY looking forward to the outcome. I'm ready to drop my 14 b/c Im scared to death of the price tag to fix it...and I hate the way the CVT drives. However, I'm upside down on the car so trading it in is difficult ATM. I'd really like to get into an Outback or Forester MT again but this gives me hope to keep the 14 running a bit longer if needed.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Transmission installed, TCM reset (used my Autel 906BT), I've put about 100 miles on it. it works perfectly! 0 issues whatsoever. if your thinking of replacing your '14 wagon CVT do yourself a favor and get a '15/'16 sedan CVT. It's not 100% plug and play, but SUPER easy to change over the top plate and the cooler lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
yes, according to Hollander all 2014 2.5L AT Wagons had a 3.90 ratio and all 2015 2.5L AT Sedans had a 3.90 ratio. see below
2014 Subaru Outback (Legacy)
Carrier


Rear, SW, 2.5L, MT (4.44 ratio)
Rear, SW, 3.6L (AT, 3.08 ratio)
Rear, Sdn, 3.6L (AT, 3.08 ratio)
Rear, SW, 2.5L, AT (CVT, 3.90 ratio)
Rear, Sdn, 2.5L, AT (CVT, 3.70 ratio)
Rear, Sdn, 2.5L, MT (4.11 ratio)

2015 Subaru Outback (Legacy)
Carrier


Rear, Sedan, 2.5L, AT (3.90 ratio)
Rear, Sedan, 2.5L, MT (4.11 ratio)
Rear, Sedan, 3.6L (4.11 ratio)
Rear, Wagon, 2.5L, AT (4.11 ratio)
Rear, Wagon, 2.5L, MT (4.44 ratio)
Rear, Wagon, 3.6L (4.11 ratio)

 

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Major props to BNoland for pulling this off!
I'm curious if the shifting behavior is any different. If I recall the 2015+ introduced those fake shift points when accelerating to mimic a regular AT. Not sure if this is a function of the TCM or the valve body. If I understand correctly, you're still using the existing 2014 TCM, correct?

Now if we combine this with teebeekay's successful install of a 2014 CVT into a 2013 Outback (see this thread ) It would appear that with minor modification, a 2015/2016 Legacy Sedan's CVT is, in fact, compatible with both 2013 and 2014 Outbacks.
 

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Transmission installed, TCM reset (used my Autel 906BT), I've put about 100 miles on it. it works perfectly! 0 issues whatsoever. if your thinking of replacing your '14 wagon CVT do yourself a favor and get a '15/'16 sedan CVT. It's not 100% plug and play, but SUPER easy to change over the top plate and the cooler lines.
Really happy somebody tried this swap and got it working! I've been on the fence about trying this. I currently have a 2015 Outback, 2013 Outback and a 2016 Legacy transmission in the shop. All transmissions have their faults and I've installed replacements since. They didn't all get the same year transmission, but they were close where I didn't have to swap anything like you did. Question though, you said you reset the TCM... Did you just clear codes? I didn't think the 906BT would do a relearn on the transmission. I have a 608 here and it won't, but was told the 906 wouldn't either. I hope their wrong because I've actually been in the market for a 906TS. ....by the way, nice work!!
 

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...and I hate the way the CVT drives.
I'm really curious about the symptoms you are experiencing. As a '14 Premium owner, this whole subject hits close to home. My dealer was convinced that I had a CVT issue, but it turned out to be related to the oil level, believe it or not. I posted about this last year, and instantly went from absolutely hating my drivetrain to really enjoying how it functions - nearly overnight.
 

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Question though, you said you reset the TCM... Did you just clear codes? I didn't think the 906BT would do a relearn on the transmission. I have a 608 here and it won't, but was told the 906 wouldn't either. I hope their wrong because I've actually been in the market for a 906TS. ....by the way, nice work!!
There is a manual process that is as follows. I don't know if it is any different from using a scan tool.
  • Disconnect battery
  • Put foot on brake for 10 seconds (drain electrical system)
  • Reconnect battery
  • Turn ignition to "ON" position
  • Turn ignition "OFF"
  • Turn ignition to "ON" position
  • Turn ignition "OFF"
  • Wait 15 seconds
  • Start car
  • Idle for 60 seconds
  • Drive for 30 minutes on light/moderate throttle
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm assuming the "fake shift points" is a function of the TCM (which is still the original unit behind the glovebox)

I went with the 906BT because it does have some of the functionality of the 908P (minus the J box) So I was able to go into the TCM, select "Special Function" then "Clear AT learning Value" and then "Compulsory Learning Mode" which had me hold the brake pedal in D and R if i remember correctly. I think its an important step to take, to reset the pressures/etc. that were still programmed in from the failed 100k mile unit.

I hope this is helpful to others!
 
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