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Didn't forbes just rate Subaru as the best vehicle for the money in America? I think it is pretty fair to say that Subaru has an excellent (not perfect) product. I drove some hondas and quite frankly they seemed like junk. Toyotas are great vehicles but the only thing comparable to the outback was the venza and for the money Subaru, in my opinion was the better choice. Just a hint, no ONE can change my mind. The only THING that could change my mind will be my Outback should it ever become problematic. Now time will tell.
 

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2002 Outback Wagon 2.5L Auto Weather Package
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1,844 Posts
I owned a perfect car once. Never had a single break down, got great mileage, handled great but rode like a cloud, never ever displeased me in any way...

And then I woke up.

More seriously, I owned an 'American car' which was really a rebadged Japanese car (Plymouth Champ) that I thoroughly enjoyed. Of course, I enjoyed it most after I got rid of the absolute piece of junk automatic in it and swapped it to a 4 speed stick, ditched the stock Mikuni emissions carb for a Weber, did a plus zero upgrade of tire size and some factory alloy wheels, put in a cool stereo, redid the exhaust, urethane bushings on the factory sway bars, new shocks and struts...

Wait, that sounds like a 'money pit'.
Yes, over time I spent probably as much as the car originally cost to make it as fun as I wanted. Even with the carb swap and exhaust, it still got 35mpg. I flogged that thing for ~250k miles. I could list all the silly little things that were flaws with that generation of Mirage/Colt/Champ platform. I and my various mechanical help worked around and modified as needed. In the end, I don't regret a minute of it. I'd love to still be driving that car now... but first icy morning or fairly deep snow and I might be a wee bit in trouble.

For the OP: Want to appreciate how good some of the 'bad' cars you've owned have been? Go find yourself an '88 Chevy Corsica with a 4 banger and an automatic. Be sure it was a rental car too. I recommend power braking to get on an interstate onramp.
 

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'14 3.6R Outback
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2,271 Posts
db2012,

I just want to say that it's not about what you say but HOW you say it.

You came on here and wrote a few posts that said (in summary) you "hate Subaru's" because you have a bad experience with the one Subaru you had.

This is a fan site. People come here because they like their cars, or need help. Coming on here and making generic statements and generalizations helps no one. If you want to make a post about the (10) things to look for on a bad Subaru... we are all ears. That post WOULD be helpful.

How does your post help anyone?

You are goading a fight pure and simple. It's like going in to a rival stadium and screaming the home team sucks while wearing the away jersey. Or worse, criticizing Canadian beer...


The TONE of your posts is the problem, not the topic.

Considering what is posted so far... I think people here are quite civil. Nice to see actually.
 

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2012 limited, white, no moonroof or nav
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1,692 Posts
I bought a Subaru because, when it snows where I live, Subarus and Toyota 4wd trucks and SUVS are the only vehicles that get around unfettered. I already have Toyota 4wd pickup, and an older 4runner. But I wanted a car. Subarus are the only cars that cost less than $50k that take to snow like a duck to water.

The only thing that would make Subarus better is help from Toyota on development. Oh, wait a minute....
 

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Fresh Out of Outbacks!
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14,063 Posts
The TONE of your posts is the problem, not the topic.

Considering what is posted so far... I think people here are quite civil. Nice to see actually.
I agree wholeheartedly.

It's one thing to put up a thread that says "Hey, I got hosed and here's how you can avoid my mistakes" and it's something else entirely to be the wild-eyed guy in the corner muttering "I'll make them understand... I'll make them understaaand..."

I can't credit(blame) the OP for hitting either of these extremes, thus the ball is in play. We can turn this thread into an education for new buyers of used Subarus, or it can go to thermonuclear poo flinging.

Many of us know that there are a fair number of EJ25-powered Outbacks on the used-car market with bad head gaskets.

We also know that a lot of Subaru's reputation for reliability came from the previous generation of EJ22-powered cars. Buyers hear great things about the old ones and think the same properties apply to the newer ones. This website is one of the few ways we can educate potential buyers.

Having gone through the head gasket surprise on a '98 myself, I'd love to help people avoid going through the same. We have lots of posts on this board that get the message out, but can we be doing more?
 

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2012 SubaruLegacy 3.6R
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1 Posts
I certainly don't like the 2012 Legacy I just purchased. I like it for the reasons I bought it; AWD being the point of reference, lots of power/torque and the AWD bites the snow and handles great on ice. However, I don't think Subaru could compete w/o AWD with the likes of Honda etc. I don't like the controls inside the car or the steering. The homelink won't work, stereo is hard to operate. In general its' not the right car for me. I'm going to get the windshield (which cracked spontaneously by the way at 3000km fixed) and sell it. In addition, the dealership is condescending.
 

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03 Baja Yellow 5MT 235k miles & 09 Outback 2.5i Quartz Silver 5MT 105k miles
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88 Posts
Let me start by listing all the vehicles I have owned and driven: 1984 Nissan Maxima, 1989 Ford Taurus Wagon 3.8V6, 1994 Honda Accord, 1999 Nissan Maxima SE, 2003 Toyota Avalon, 1994 Subaru Legacy Turbo, 2002 WRX, 2003 Baja, and 2009 Outback. Let me also say I have various automotive professional experience with having been employed by Pep Boys, Subaru of America at the corporate headquarters, and now over a year as an Assistance Service Manager at a toyota dealership.

Bottom line is that every car has its problems. Toyota is no gem of a vehicle and I have seen it firsthand. every other car that comes in with a few miles on it needs a water pump, or a steering shaft, or a wheel bearing, or a multitude of oil leaks, and right now nearly every late model toyota has a current safety recall or two or three affecting it. Toyota is the new GM, so is Honda. So don't have one bad experience with a brand and discredit the brand as a whole.

let me go down my list of owned/driven vehicles and see how each one fares:

1984 Maxima: absolutely bulletproof car, except the ECM crapped out at about 25,000 miles. after that, literally NOTHING went wrong except for regular maintance items. Went over 150k miles and 20 years before I got rid of it.

1989 Ford Taurus wagon: literally EVERYTHING went wrong with that POS from day one, including head gaskets, oil leaks, randomly not starting, squeaky suspension, terrible brakes, faulty electronics like radios and buttons, transmission failed twice.

1994 Honda Accord EX 4cyl. VTEC: Not a bad car but didnt get good gad mileage (strange) and the engine leaked oil after two years. Also the ignition cylinder broke after 2 years. Traded in on a new 1999 Maxima.

1999 Maxima SE: great car but ate brakes like there was no tomorrow and the headlights wouldnt light up anything on the road, worst ever headlights. high beams even worse.

2001? Toyota Avalon: absolutely flawless car, never had any problems whatsoever, just regular maintenance.

1994 legacy turbo: engine needed resealing for oil leaks at 90k miles and a couple years later needed the 4EAT tranny rebuilt, just randomly lost reverse gear one day no warning. A/C compressor bearing went out at about 100k. I also beat the crap out of this car I was pretty young, so I cant really fault the car entirely.

2003 Subaru Baja: replaced head gaskets at 180k miles. Pretty good run i think. While it was apart had the t-belt, water pump, and all oil seals done. had to be done anyways so no big deal. Only had to replace one clutch. and by 200k had to replace all the wheel bearings. Not bad considering my dad's 2003 Corolla needed a wheel bearing after the first year. This car is basically a 2003 Outback for all practical purposes.

2002 WRX: very few problems, most were fixed under warranty, clutch due to judder/vibration (not wear), transmission rebuilt (also warranty), but otherwise bulletproof. Just routine maintenance. 120k mile when i sold it.

2006 Buick Terraza AWD minivan: same as chevy uplander/pontiac montana but higher end. Absolute junk. Had extended warranty and it spent more time at the dealer shop than in our driveway. Would not get more than 20mpg on a good day. Traded in on 2009 Outback 2 weeks before the warranty was due to expire.

2009 Outback, so far have owned less than one year and no problems.

My point in going over all this is to ephasize that there is no pattern here. Every car has had some problems. Every manufacture takes shortcuts somewhere and compromises somewhere. Take ownership of your problems If you cant get over it, move on to another brand.
 

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22,690 Posts
Let me start by listing all the vehicles I have owned and driven: 1984 Nissan Maxima, 1989 Ford Taurus Wagon 3.8V6, 1994 Honda Accord, 1999 Nissan Maxima SE, 2003 Toyota Avalon, 1994 Subaru Legacy Turbo, 2002 WRX, 2003 Baja, and 2009 Outback. Let me also say I have various automotive professional experience with having been employed by Pep Boys, Subaru of America at the corporate headquarters, and now over a year as an Assistance Service Manager at a toyota dealership.

Bottom line is that every car has its problems. Toyota is no gem of a vehicle and I have seen it firsthand. every other car that comes in with a few miles on it needs a water pump, or a steering shaft, or a wheel bearing, or a multitude of oil leaks, and right now nearly every late model toyota has a current safety recall or two or three affecting it. Toyota is the new GM, so is Honda. So don't have one bad experience with a brand and discredit the brand as a whole.

let me go down my list of owned/driven vehicles and see how each one fares:

1984 Maxima: absolutely bulletproof car, except the ECM crapped out at about 25,000 miles. after that, literally NOTHING went wrong except for regular maintance items. Went over 150k miles and 20 years before I got rid of it.

1989 Ford Taurus wagon: literally EVERYTHING went wrong with that POS from day one, including head gaskets, oil leaks, randomly not starting, squeaky suspension, terrible brakes, faulty electronics like radios and buttons, transmission failed twice.

1994 Honda Accord EX 4cyl. VTEC: Not a bad car but didnt get good gad mileage (strange) and the engine leaked oil after two years. Also the ignition cylinder broke after 2 years. Traded in on a new 1999 Maxima.

1999 Maxima SE: great car but ate brakes like there was no tomorrow and the headlights wouldnt light up anything on the road, worst ever headlights. high beams even worse.

2001? Toyota Avalon: absolutely flawless car, never had any problems whatsoever, just regular maintenance.

1994 legacy turbo: engine needed resealing for oil leaks at 90k miles and a couple years later needed the 4EAT tranny rebuilt, just randomly lost reverse gear one day no warning. A/C compressor bearing went out at about 100k. I also beat the crap out of this car I was pretty young, so I cant really fault the car entirely.

2003 Subaru Baja: replaced head gaskets at 180k miles. Pretty good run i think. While it was apart had the t-belt, water pump, and all oil seals done. had to be done anyways so no big deal. Only had to replace one clutch. and by 200k had to replace all the wheel bearings. Not bad considering my dad's 2003 Corolla needed a wheel bearing after the first year. This car is basically a 2003 Outback for all practical purposes.

2002 WRX: very few problems, most were fixed under warranty, clutch due to judder/vibration (not wear), transmission rebuilt (also warranty), but otherwise bulletproof. Just routine maintenance. 120k mile when i sold it.

2006 Buick Terraza AWD minivan: same as chevy uplander/pontiac montana but higher end. Absolute junk. Had extended warranty and it spent more time at the dealer shop than in our driveway. Would not get more than 20mpg on a good day. Traded in on 2009 Outback 2 weeks before the warranty was due to expire.

2009 Outback, so far have owned less than one year and no problems.

My point in going over all this is to ephasize that there is no pattern here. Every car has had some problems. Every manufacture takes shortcuts somewhere and compromises somewhere. Take ownership of your problems If you cant get over it, move on to another brand.
Or just take a bus or ride a bike. Lol
 

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2015 Forester XT Touring w/EyeSight
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481 Posts
In the recent past...

1999 Land Rover Discovery Series I. My wife bought it in 2002 with around 30k miles. She purchased an extended warranty. Lots of little things fixed under warranty. After the warranty expired, it seemed like there was always some minor issue with it, and it always cost $1000 to fix it. B.O.A.T.

It never left us stranded though, and always took us where we wanted to go.

Got right around 14mpg no matter what.

I picked up a trashed 1991 Legacy wagon (FWD) beater w/165K miles for $500. Spent a bunch / way too much money on maintenance since we didn't know its history. Hardly cost anything after that and got 30mpg no matter how it was driven. Sold it for with ~185k for $800.

2003 Tundra. Had it for a little over a year and literally the only thing it has required was a oil change.

2004 Astro Cargo. Needed new front shocks when I bought it. Then a fuel pump (~$700 - I suspect the seller knew it was bad). Then idler arms so it would hold an alignment. Then a starter. Seems like something else too. Has left me stranded a bunch of times. I THINK I have the gremlins out of it now....

2005 Outback XT. Front rotors & brakes. Knew there was an issue when I bought it, but wasn't expecting it to be quite so expensive. Front ball joints. 105K service. Again, I knew it was coming, but still damned expensive.

I also had HID low-beams & fog lights installed, and all the windows tinted. Additional expense associated with the vehicle, but not required.
 

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'15 STi and '13 GTI
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1,001 Posts
However the point of me starting this thread was that I have owned many different Hondas and Toyotas and not a single one of them cost me as much to maintain as the one Subaru I have owned. Not even close. So to me Subaru is not a good value.

It was more than just the head gasket, tail light and latch that I had to repair. I have pages and pages of service records.

Oh and what's with the boxer engine sounding like a hamster running on a wheel?

At this point I'm just hoping to get another 40-50k out of the car without another major costly repair. At that point I'll probably be looking into a Rav4, Highlander or Forerunner.
VWVortex.com - Unreliable Toyotas, or, How I Managed To Break 2 Brand New Toyotas in 2 Days

Figured I would write a CSB for you all in the hopes that you will get a chuckle out of my misfortune. It's also a 1 year update for my GTI, so I am rolling it all into this thread.

Yes, its's possible to buy an unreliable Toyota

2 weeks ago, my wife jumps in our brand new 2012 Prius (with less than 10K on the odometer). It's pretty cold out, temp in the mid 20s. The car has been sitting in our heated garage all night. Wife jumps in the car, punch the POWER button, and the car powers on. 10 seconds later, the engine fires up. (All normal behavior up to this point). As the engine starts up, the entire car shakes like a wet dog, and there is an absolutely ATROCIOUS banging sound coming from under the hood, something you can hear from a block away. (Evidenced by my neighbor walking over and asking what wall we were tearing down). We shut the car down, give the entire thing a once over, find no Rubbermaid rotating assemblies in the engine bay, and power the car up again. Engine starts, and all is well. What. The. ****.

Okay, call the dealer. "Bring it in immediately." I do as I am told. Jump in the car, drive it down to the local dealer, and drop it off....and it is running fine the entire time. They are extremely apologetic, tell me they need the car for a few days to reproduce, and hand me the key to a brand new (2,000 miles on the clock) 2012 Sienna Limited. The monroney is in the glove box: $45,7XX. It is by far the nicest loaner I have ever gotten - HIDs, heated seats, 2 moonroofs, center buckets with recline and footrests!!! Half the car is still wrapped in plastic. I feel like I am in a Lear Jet.

The next day, while waiting in line for some lunch from a local fast food joint, the Sienna's shift lever and transmission decide to have a falling out and stop talking to each other. No amount of rowing the offending selector will move the trans readout on the dash from "P". After 2 hours of clogging the drive through, the dealer having exhausted all troubleshooting with me over the phone (including manually forcing the shifter with the release mechanism next to the lever), they finally call Uncle (and a tow truck). When the flatbed shows up, I knew what was about to happen. They chain the control arms to the winch, and drag the van (wheels locked and all) up onto the bed. We get to the dealer, and I watch in utter shock while the tow truck operator tilts the bed down, unchains this $45,000 Sienna, and then "shakes" the van off the bed (remember, it's locked in Park) onto the lot.

Quick Tip: if you are thinking of buying a demo or slightly used gray 2012 Sienna Limited in the next few months...um....don't.

So they hand me the keys to Loaner #2, an equally new Toyota Highlander SE. And exactly 1 week after this event, we get our Prius back with a brand new intake manifold and a reflash.

To say I am unimpressed with Toyota quality at this point is a GROSS understatement. I am willing to chalk up one failure to a fluke, but two separate cars under 10K miles?

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

And this is on top of the minor product complaints we have - the cheapish interior, relatively poor dynamics (admittedly fixed with TRD accessories, but a Chevy Volt is a sport sedan in comparison), tinny build, and the interior lighting designed by committee. The dash readout is a different color than the secondary controls, the window switches are not lit at all, and the footwell illumination is a dull orange compared to the blue LED door sills, the blue green dash, and the green secondary controls. The various switchgear is not special, and has been in varius Toyotas since the 1980s, including the **** "chicken wing" cruise stalk at 5 o clock on the steering wheel.
But keep pretending that your one "bad" experience with one car is indicative of all the cars that the manufacturer has produced. :rolleyes:
 

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2013, Outback 2.5 Limited
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6 Posts
Ok let's all read.

Did you even read my post? I had to replace the head gasket at 80K miles.
Did you even read any of the other 1,000+ posts? You had to replace the head gasket at 80,000 miles but I just sold my '07 Forester with 200,000 miles on it and had not a single issue...and I bought it brand new with 11 miles on it. Sometimes people just get lucky...and like you some don't. Fact of the matter is not every single car that comes off the line is guaranteed to be exactly the same. Sometimes stuff happens and instead of just sitting there wondering why me and wasting your and everyone else's time...just get it fixed, pay the bill and keep plugging along OR get rid of it.
 

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1993 Legacy LSi with still functioning Air Suspension, 1999 Outback 2.5L 5MT lab Rat
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190 Posts
I for 1 enjoy reading the Haters Posts, I am reminded that everything has a life span, which is effected by many things. Humans for instance, Born with an expected life span of around 80 years. Some, taken well care of, can go many years beyond that. Some who do not take are of themselves get lucky and get very close, most however live a lot less. Now take this guys USED Outback, that he hates so much. He did not get his Outback new so he bears little resposibility for its care prior to his time. Judging by the problems he's had he should blame the Car less and the previous owner a bit more. I work on these cars everyday, from basic maintenance to large repairs, and I see the full spectrum from well maintained to ignored and abused, and from my experience well maintained cars LAST LONGER. And there is No replacement for reading the OWNERS MANUAL, particularly the Scheduled Maintenance requirements, if you are not sure, defer to SEVERE Service, you can over-maintain a car with little harm, but you cannot under-maintain the car and expect no problems.
 

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97 Outback 248000
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799 Posts
If you hate your Outback you should park it somewhere in Seattle. From what I've read on the Seattle Police twitter account getyourcarback they are stealing Subarus left and right. You can take your insurance claim and buy something else.
 

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'14 3.6R Outback
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2,271 Posts
If you hate your Outback you should park it somewhere in Seattle. From what I've read on the Seattle Police twitter account getyourcarback they are stealing Subarus left and right. You can take your insurance claim and buy something else.
First thing you need to understand about Seattle is we have more Subaru's than people. If you are at a light with 20 vehicles at least 5 will be Subaru's. So yea they get a stolen a lot but only because there is a lot of them. :p
 

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'02 Bean H6, AWP & ORP, factory hitch
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2,972 Posts
Wow! Talk about passionate people! If nothing else, even automotive manufacturing plants have issues with some of the robotic assembly devices. I know this firsthand because my brother works outside sales for a parts manufacturing company, and he has the Mercedes plant here in Alabama as one of his clients. Nothing here on earth is perfect, and anything with moving parts requires maintenance and on occasion, repair.

The point of this diatribe is that sometime parts fail, often for no immediate reason. I mentioned the Mercedes plant to add weight to this post. All automobile manufacturers require maintenance and parts replacements as well, or my brother would be unemployed! Check out customer satisfaction surveys and auto durability surveys, and I bet you will find Subaru near the top of both. 11 straight years for me and my OB, and if I ever buy another car, I promise you it will be another Subaru.
 

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97 Outback 248000
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799 Posts
Sorry Seattle, JK

First thing you need to understand about Seattle is we have more Subaru's than people. If you are at a light with 20 vehicles at least 5 will be Subaru's. So yea they get a stolen a lot but only because there is a lot of them. :p
Just a tongue in cheek solution. Loved living in Seattle, felt like I fit right in. Subarus are starting to catch on here. When I first moved here I was the only one in the parking lot and I was often asked what my car was. Now I see them everywhere. The trend appears to have momentum, so I think the OP is in the minority.
 
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