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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I have a 2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cyclinder Automatic with 194K I just purchased at Salem, NH auction for $3100 March 6,2013. Not sure I like it think I prefer my 2001 Subaru Forester at this point.

In less than 1 week found heated seats don't work, the rear moon roof gutter system is all corroded and rusted and worse than that the front non-moving moon roof leaks pretty bad. After huge snowstorm 2 days after I purchased, the snow on roof started melting off and I had a quite a bit of water inside the car interior, lot of fun driving while it is raining INSIDE the car, The top interior roof and lamp assembly was completely saturated. Obviously will have to get that fixed.

Mentioning all this in case it may have something to do with my latest problem. The passenger side yellow turn lights, both front and rear will NOT blink when I turn the right directional on and stay ON even when car OFF.

The drivers side lights work normally when driving car, using turn and hazard lights and go off when car is off, only the passenger side stay ON unless I disconnect the battery.

I purchased a flasher at parts store and crawled under the drivers side looking for the flasher with the directional on listening for the clicking. I heard it and used a flashlight I could not find the darn flasher.

Does anyone know where the flasher it is located and how to replace please??

It is sitting in the driveway with the battery disconnected and I have to get i repaired ASAP to get a sticker.
 

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I very much doubt the problem is the flasher, because the same flasher is used for left turn, right turn and for the Hazards. The difference between the three functions is in the switching, not the flasher itself.

The passenger side yellow turn lights, both front and rear will NOT blink when I turn the right directional on and .
Not sure what you mean by "stay ON even when car OFF". Is this with the turn signal lever in the center (off) position, or with the lever in the "right turn" position?
 

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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #3
Hi,

Thanks for response...what I mean is even the keys in my pocket and car off the front and rear yellow directional lights remain ON, even when the car is OFF.

Nothing I can do inside the car will get them to turn off. I played with hazard switch, directional controls, fuses,bulbs, etc.

Only way to get them to turn OFF is to disconnect the battery.

I am hoping it is not the switch module on steering column.
 

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2013 OB 2.5i Premium/DDD Graphite Gray Metallic OP#2 Weathertec Window Deflectors
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It sounds like your remote, have you tried to lock the car without the remote?
 

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03 H6 OBW & 06 WRX Sportwagon
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maybe some combination of burned out bulbs and the ('virgin') switch on top of the steering column?

odd
 

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03 H6 OBW & 06 WRX Sportwagon
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re-reading the symptoms, it doesn't seem like any bulbs are burned out so...

I dunno
 

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Okay . .

Might be a fault in the keyless entry control module.

The module flashes the external turn signal lights (both sides) when locking or unlocking the car. It does this by applying 12 V to the two turn signal light circuits (right and left). The keyless entry control module is always powered from the battery. An internal short in the module relating to the right side circuit could be applying 12 V at all times rather than only when the locks are being actuated.

This would explain the right side turn signal lights being on at all times, while the left seems to work normally.

Questions:

When you use the keyless entry (remote) to lock or unlock the car, do the left side turn signal lights flash?

What about the right side -- do they flash or remain on continuously?

Does the horn sound (beep) when using the remote control to lock or unlock the doors?

Also, with the car off, if you turn the Hazard switch "on", do all the turn signal lights flash, including the right side, or only the left side flashes while the right remains fully lit all the time?

When the right side turn signal lights are on, are they bright (same as the left side when flashing) or are they on, but noticeably dimmer?

The keyless entry control module should be located under the dashboard, on the right side, behind (to the right of) the glove compartment (see attached). If removing the connector from the module turns the right side turn signal bulbs off, then the problem is internal to the module.

(It's also possible that there's a wiring short somewhere between an "always on" 12 V source and the right side turn signal circuit, especially given the history of the car, but this would be a focus only if disconnecting the module does not turn the lights off.)
 

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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Plain OM

Thanks for your suggestions, I agree the right side (passenger) turn & hazard lights are getting constant voltage.

Here is another observation I made earlier before doing anything. I reconnected the battery this morning, the issue came back right away.

I then started pulling fuses and found that fuse SB2 50A cut the power to the lights and they finally went off. They also then worked perfectly with remote, directional and hazard controls.

The car even started without SB2 fuse installed, only problem is it won't come out of Park, into reverse or drive. It was locked in Park position until I reinstalled the 50A fuse SB2.

I did remove the glove compartment (not easily). I found and removed the Remote Key-less module nut, disconnected the wiring harness but no luck the lights came back on right away when fuse SB2 was reinstalled.

I also disconnected every harness assembly that I could see as long as I had glove compartment off. Nothing I disconnected made any difference the lights remained on.


Here are the answers to the questions:
I am going by memory as the remote key-less module is still out.

Questions:

When you use the keyless entry (remote) to lock or unlock the car, do the left side turn signal lights flash? YES they flashed.

What about the right side -- do they flash or remain on continuously? YES they remain on constantly but appear to want to flash in unison with left side by slightly dimming but never going off.

Does the horn sound (beep) when using the remote control to lock or unlock the doors? YES the horn beeps

Also, with the car off, if you turn the Hazard switch "on", do all the turn signal lights flash, including the right side, or only the left side flashes while the right remains fully lit all the time? WITH CAR OFF TURNING ON HAZARD SWITCH CAUSES ALL FOUR YELLOW LIGHTS (BOTH SIDES) TO FREEZE ON. NO FLASHING AT ALL. THIS AGAIN IS WITH REMOTE KEY-LESS MODULE REMOVED.

I BELIEVED IT BEHAVED THE SAME WAY WHEN THE KEY-LESS MODULE WAS INSTALLED. I AM THINKING OF OTHER THINGS THAT COULD CAUSE THIS AND NOW WONDERING ABOUT DIRECTIONAL SWITCH ON STEERING COLUMN OR THE "PARK" SWITCH ON TOP OF STEERING COLUMN. WORST CASE SCENARIO IS A SHORT SOMEWHERE I WOULD THINK.

When the right side turn signal lights are on, are they bright (same as the left side when flashing) or are they on, but noticeably dimmer? THEY ARE ALL ON AND THE PASSENGER BULB (THE ONE ALWAYS ON) SEEMS SLIGHTLY DIMMER.

The keyless entry control module should be located under the dashboard, on the right side, behind (to the right of) the glove compartment (see attached). If removing the connector from the module turns the right side turn signal bulbs off, then the problem is internal to the module.

(It's also possible that there's a wiring short somewhere between an "always on" 12 V source and the right side turn signal circuit, especially given the history of the car, but this would be a focus only if disconnecting the module does not turn the lights off.)[/QUOTE]
 

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This is very puzzling. According to the wiring diagram I have, SBF-2 is not related to the turn signals, hazards or keyless entry. (SBF-6, however is associated with the keyless entry.) On the other hand, with SBF-2 out, power to the brake light switch is cut, and when this is cut, the shifter interlock is disabled, so that explains why the shifter would not go out of Park. (But the diagram could be wrong or I could be reading it incorrectly . . .)

If the right side lights remained on when the keyless entry module was disconnected, then it wouldn't be the module at fault.

WITH CAR OFF TURNING ON HAZARD SWITCH CAUSES ALL FOUR YELLOW LIGHTS (BOTH SIDES) TO FREEZE ON. NO FLASHING AT ALL. THIS AGAIN IS WITH REMOTE KEY-LESS MODULE REMOVED.
Okay, a scenario. With the car off (key out), battery still connected, the right side turn signal lights are on. The hazard button is then switched on. Instead of any lights flashing on and off as would be expected, they all remain on, both left and right.

This might mean there is a short between a 12 V source and the right side signal light circuit. When the hazard switch is turned on, it, in effect, connects the right and left circuits together. So the 12 V that was powering the right side now powers the left side as well.

The hazard switch function is normally powered through fuse #6, 15A, in the main fuse box (engine compartment). When fuse 6 is removed, the Hazard switch is, in effect, disabled as far as powering the flasher and the lights. If you can find fuse 6, pull it. I suspect that with it out, if you turn the hazard switch on, the same thing will happen; the left side lights will come on (along with the already on right side). This would demonstrate that the right side is being powered from some odd connection and this is being transferred to the left through the hazard switch. But if with fuse 6 out, the right side lights go out, or if the left side does not come on when the hazard switch is turned on, there's yet a different issue. But let's take it step by step.

I'm somewhat doubtful the turn signal switch itself is involved. Similarly, the parking light switch on top of the steering column involves the clearance and tail light circuits, not the turn signal light system, so again, while this cannot be precluded (e.g. a short), it's on the less likely end of the spectrum as I see it.

(Might have to study those diagrams more . . . .)
 

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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #11
Hi,

First of all thanks or taking of your time to look into this puzzle with me, your suggestions are very good and logical.

I will try what you suggested tomorrow morning and reconnect battery, install SB2 50A fuse, turn on hazards and remove fuse #6 15A and will post the results.

I am starting to think this car has some serious electrical issues and has a short circuit somewhere. I don't think I mentioned that the right directional arrow on the dashboard comes on and freezes brightly on the dashboard.

The bulbs themselves, when I disassembled both the front and read lens assembly, get extremely hot. I am not sure if that is normal or not.

The moon-roof switch only operates the rear moon-roof. According to the parts manager I spoke to at Nashua NH Subaru, the front part is a sun roof that should pop up but it does not in my car.

Also the heated seats do not work or I don't understand how to use them. One side, the passenger side has a amber glowing LED on the switch on the console. The driver's side LED does not come on and neither seat seem to get warm at all.

When I explained the issue to the Subaru parts manager he came out to the car and probably thought he would fix by toggling "park" switch on top of steering console like happens to many people but not in this instance.

By the way have you heard of bulbs installed "backwards" as a possible cause?? It has been mentioned to me but I did not think a bulb has polarity.

Thanks again
 

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Bulbs aren't polarized unless they are solid state: as in LED. If they are normal bulbs they can't possibly be polarized. Just not possible.
 

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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #13
Bulbs aren't polarized unless they are solid state: as in LED. If they are normal bulbs they can't possibly be polarized. Just not possible.

I agree, after thinking about it maybe it was in reference to the bulbs being backwards as far as their location. In other words they have the 1156NA where the 1157NA belongs and vice-versa. Not sure what the result of that would be but it can't be what is wrong with my car....the lights all worked fine the first 3-4 days. It doesn't make any sense.
 

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Trying to make the connection between SBF-2 and the turn signals . . . .

Does the car have a hitch, or show signs that it was used for towing?

SBF-2 provides "always on" power to the trailer adapter connector. Also coming in to this connector are wires from the left and right turn signal circuits. This is one area where a short can more easily develop, either in the trailer adapter itself (if it's installed) or if the wiring at the connector was modified to directly hook up wiring to a trailer.

The always-on power for the trailer connector comes from SBF-2, but it first goes through a separate fuse. It looks as if it's fuse #10, 15 Amps, in the in-cabin fuse panel (dashboard, to the left of the steering column.)

I'm not sure if the fuse is identified in the layout chart as the "trailer" fuse, but if you can find it, see if pulling just that fuse turns off the right side turn signal lights. If it does, then that would narrow down the circuit area of the fault.

The trailer connector is in the cargo area. I believe on the 2004 it's found at the lower edge of the right side interior trim panel. If there's an adapter connected, it might be in the spare tire wheel well area. (If there is a hitch, or a connector out the back for a trailer, trace the wiring back into the car. It probably would come to the trailer connector or its wiring.)
 

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03 H6 OBW & 06 WRX Sportwagon
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could bulbs be hot/bright due to too high voltage? check across the battery terminals while someone revs the engine to about 1500rpm.
 

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Nova563:
You can put any (regular) bulb into any socket as long as they fit, regardless of markings or type/model number....
 

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2004 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5L 4 cylinder Automatic 194K Purchased March 6,2013 at Salem, NH auction.
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Success at Last !!

Trying to make the connection between SBF-2 and the turn signals . . . .

Does the car have a hitch, or show signs that it was used for towing?

SBF-2 provides "always on" power to the trailer adapter connector. Also coming in to this connector are wires from the left and right turn signal circuits. This is one area where a short can more easily develop, either in the trailer adapter itself (if it's installed) or if the wiring at the connector was modified to directly hook up wiring to a trailer.

The always-on power for the trailer connector comes from SBF-2, but it first goes through a separate fuse. It looks as if it's fuse #10, 15 Amps, in the in-cabin fuse panel (dashboard, to the left of the steering column.)

I'm not sure if the fuse is identified in the layout chart as the "trailer" fuse, but if you can find it, see if pulling just that fuse turns off the right side turn signal lights. If it does, then that would narrow down the circuit area of the fault.

The trailer connector is in the cargo area. I believe on the 2004 it's found at the lower edge of the right side interior trim panel. If there's an adapter connected, it might be in the spare tire wheel well area. (If there is a hitch, or a connector out the back for a trailer, trace the wiring back into the car. It probably would come to the trailer connector or its wiring.)
:29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29::29:

Dear Plain OM,

If you were any closer to me I would come buy you a beer or a lobster dinner...you are a truly a nice person who went out of your way to help a stranger and I am forever in your debt.


Here is what happened: Per your suggestion I put fuse SB2 back in sure enough the lights came back on. I then put on hazard switch all 4 parking / turn lights came on and stayed on. I then removed Fuse #6 no change, I removed several more fuses under same conditions, again no change all lights stayed on.

I then remember your latest post asking if car had a towing harness connector at back of vehicle and sure enough it did. I followed it back into car, opened hatch and noticed a smell of something burning.

I lifted the compartment that hides the spare tire and immediately saw the issue. The trailer lights control module I assume, Subaru p/n 311-0041-013 Rev. B 1/02 was melting down right before my eyes. The insulation around the red and green wires was virtually melted off.

I immediately disconnected the harness feeding the power to the module and right away the 4 yellow hazard lights began to blink as they should when hazard switch is on. I then tested the left & right directional lights, they went on as they should, all working perfectly.

Thank goodness, you will never know how grateful I am to you for you patience and your guidance with this matter. I never would have found it without you or until the car caught on fire.

I attached some pics for you in case you were interested in seeing the culprit device that kept me up for 3 days!
 

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The green wire is the right turn signal light circuit; the red is the "always on" 12 V. Short between the two = right turn signal lights always on. I would suspect that something inside the module shorted, causing the wiring to get very hot in that visible area. In the first photo, it looks as if the case is somewhat warped down in that corner, which would suggest internal overheating. If I had the adapter, I'd probably see if I could get it open to have a closer look. (This isn't the first time a trailer adapter has failed, causing electrical problems elsewhere in the car.)

In any event, it's good to hear it's solved and everything is back to normal.

It's what this forum is all about . . .

Enjoy the "new" car.
 

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Nice ....nova 563.....this is the BEST site there is !!!! Cardoc often helps me as well.... !!! And I....like you.......also offerd him a seafood dinner....and an Ice Cream.

Good old fashion NEW ENGLAND Hospitality....AND Subaru of Nashua is GREAT... Tim...the parts manager !!!!...
enjoy your Outback... They are awesome !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Send me a mailing address and I will send trailer adaptor to you.

The green wire is the right turn signal light circuit; the red is the "always on" 12 V. Short between the two = right turn signal lights always on. I would suspect that something inside the module shorted, causing the wiring to get very hot in that visible area. In the first photo, it looks as if the case is somewhat warped down in that corner, which would suggest internal overheating. If I had the adapter, I'd probably see if I could get it open to have a closer look. (This isn't the first time a trailer adapter has failed, causing electrical problems elsewhere in the car.)

In any event, it's good to hear it's solved and everything is back to normal.

It's what this forum is all about . . .

Enjoy the "new" car.

Hey Plain OM,

Just wanted to say thanks again for you invaluable assistance with my issue. The car is running great and I was able to get a sticker right away. Sure feels a lot better driving with a valid sticker than the reject sticker I had on it.

You mentioned if you had the module you would open and examine it. If you want it it's all yours. I don't plan on towing anything and if I did I would need another module anyways. Send me a mailing address and I will send it to you.

Again thanks to you and everyone else who took the time to assist me. This is a great site for Subaru owners for help with issues and good solid advise.

Best Regards
:cool:
 
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