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2019 Subaru Forester Premium, Crystal Black Silica, Pkg 15
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Discussion Starter #1
Doing a little investigative work. I know the new FB25 no longer has the coolant passages so they’ll never have the whole coolant in oil mixing thing again. Looks like a completely different cooling setup.

Does the EZ36 also have this design, or is it more like the EJ with an extra 2 cylinders on it?

Is one or the other better in terms of long term reliability?
 

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not sure what you're asking - is this related to 'open deck' vs closed or semi closed deck construction?
 

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Pilot they all have coolant passages. The only oil in coolant cases I’ve ever seen with subarus are cracked blocks or failed oil coolers which are integrated into the radiator cross contamination via failed radiator.

In the case of head gasket failures there are a few factors not counting abuse, over heats etc.

The biggest HG failure mess for Subaru was 2000-2002 2.5’s using a single layer gasket all of them dripped coolant externally typically driver side head. Subaru replaced them as they came in the good dealers used a multi layer head gasket. I had one mine was leaking about 6oz every 200 miles when it was done and I drove it to 180,000 zero issues then the college kid up the street ran it till 310,000 something ish and traded it in for a new Subaru.

The 3.6 and Turbo engines when not abused tend to have fewer Head gasket failures. I am a firm believer that power and not being over heated as often as the NA engines is a big contributor to this.

As for the heads they are super compact and crazy robust all I4, V6 and V8 engines often have heads that are warped and un even after a HG failure replacing the head is a added cost in most cases with those engines. The Subaru heads rarely ever need to be replaced.

The cost difference between Subaru and all other brands is HUGE!!!!

My Subaru was $1500 and it was fixed never an issue again. My 98 Toyota was no joke $8000 and it failed again a yr later. My cousins VW was $4500 on the cheap.

If its repair risk your concerned about I have found from personal experience Subaru is Thousands cheaper to repair and far easier to fix right the first time.
 

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If I understand it right (happens every now and then) the FB25 uses a set of external pipes to communicate water in and out of heads. EJ & EZ engines supply the heads through the block, then take the water back through the external pipes.

VW did all water via external pipes in their final edition of boxer engines in the 80's. I fixed a lot of coolant leaks in them. I fixed a lot of oil leaks in them too, but that wouldn't apply because that was a pushrod engine, something Subaru moved away from in the early 90s.

The practical bit I take from this is that the unions and gaskets are probably going to leak eventually, but it's generally cheaper to reseal an external pipe union than to replace a head gasket. It's still the same basic problem with the same solution- you're just moving it to a more accessible location for more economical future service.
 

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2007 2.5 L Obsidian Black Outback XTL
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There are passages for both coolant and oil to move in and out between the heads and the crankcase. Both lubrication and cooling are essential.

Where some of the older models got in trouble was with the type of gasket they used between the case and the head. This was exacerbated by the very narrow swath of metal in the case between the piston bore and the cooling jacket. There was very little spacing between the two and sometimes the gasket was just not up to the job.

Warpage of the head.usually comes from improper torquing of the head bolts or trying to re-use old bolts that had already been tensioned. You should look up the complicated torquing procedure for the 2.5 and 3.6. The heads on an EZ engine are very beefy.

None of us have seen the internals.on the new engine but when we eventually do it would not be a surprise is Subaru did something a little different at the mating surfaces between the heads and case.
 

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2019 Subaru Forester Premium, Crystal Black Silica, Pkg 15
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks. So both systems are not perfect but in the newer FB25, the system is easier to repair. Good to think about.

I’m not having HG problems, just trying to wrestle with the idea of 3.6 vs 2.5 after reading all 1400 posts of the 3.6 v 2.5 thread on a very boring night.

I know the EZ is pretty old technologically, but is the actual engine design of the FB light years better to consider getting it despite the lower power output?
 

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I’m on my second 2.5 since 2001. The only reason I would have gone 3.6 is if we lived in Tahoe lake level is 6000ft. The 2.5 is fine for visits but living there the 2.5 is wheezy and sluggish at 6000ft. I live at 100ft and the 2.5 is perfectly fine. I tow a bunch also and to be perfectly honest I find the suspension on the OB to be my biggest gripe not power.

Based on our current home renovation project and the finances I think I’m going to drop $$ on Rallitek built struts stock height and run the 2.5 2010 another yr. The Ascent pricing stupidly will have calmed down some by then.

We head up to Tahoe next week for 6 days of camping. I think I’m taking the OB and not our Sequoia. But the rear struts are the reason I might go truck for that trip. Not power.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Cool. That means something with you being in hilly San Fran.

Something to think about would be to wait for the 20’s and get the global platform.

Have been hearing people can do vip with the Ascent. Local places near me are doing msrp minus $1000.

I’m not against the Ascent, just a bigger ride than I’m used to. (Kind of like Leggy vs OB)
 

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The global platform OB will be dramatically nicer from a handling and suspension standpoint if you can wait I would get one of those.
 

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I bought my mom a 2010 Legacy and we bought the 2010 OB they are identical size wise. Legacy drives dramatically better stiffer body and better suspension etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yup I remember you said that on a few threads. While I miss my 09 Legacy, that was from a “lifetime” ago and as a dad with two kids I think the cargo of the OB is a better fit for me. I also like the hatch.

In all honesty if the 2020 has the 2.4T option I would probably consider that. I don’t need the extra pep, but I do like it. I don’t know if I can hold out that long since we are looking at around a late summer 2019 delivery for that.
 

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I bought my mom a 2010 Legacy and we bought the 2010 OB they are identical size wise. Legacy drives dramatically better stiffer body and better suspension etc.
That has been our experience in our 2015 Legacy and 2016 Outback, but without the "dramatically" part.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Guilty. Like to know everything about everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The 15-16’s got badly needed chassis stiffening. The 2010 OB is a super flexy thing. ?
What do you mean by that? Like, excessive body roll? I’m ignorant because I drive mine every day and it’s pretty enjoyable.

I’m racing the GTP clock. If I’m reading the restrictions right, I have until I get to the end of the 8th model year, so that means I would have until the time my car turns 9, right?

Bought in April 2011, so as long as I trade in before April 2020 I should be good, then?
 

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Not body roll chassis flex. My 2010ob I can park it in a off camber dpot and jam the sun roof and get ripples in the roof the same spot in the Legacy nothing. This flex can also be noticed in how they drive especially when loaded up. Legacy drives far better.

The 2015 OB per Subarus own published info was stiffened up most likely to address the various issues people complained about that were likely related to the flexy chassis.
 

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