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OBW H6 VDC, Tribeca, XT6
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Discussion Starter #1
*** To keep clutter to a minimum, if you have a question - it probably could be asked in a separate thread and link/quote this. Personal preference, but try not to reply to and quote the entire thread...nooo....goodness noooo don't do that!

Read and reread the section you have a question about - it's probably answered. If it's not answered - then it's something that doesn't matter like electronics, DOHC 2.5 verses SOHC 2.2, ECU, transmission, none of that matters. Don't make up questions on your keyboard, get in the garage and follow this:

This is for EJ22 swaps into an EJ25D vehicles. EJ25 = dual overhead cam engine found in:
1996-1999 Legacy and Outbacks
1998 Impreza RS and Forester


The following are plug and play, easy swaps into those vehicles listed above:

1. 1995 EJ22 with EGR
(all 95 automatics have EGR - impreza or legacy, doesn't matter)

or

2. 96-98 EJ22 with EGR and the EJ22 exhaust manifold.
(again legacy/impreza doesn't matter)

Exhaust:
Usually get the exhaust manifold with the engine, but in general, any 96-01 single port EJ22 exhaust manifold will work.

1996 is single port exhaust (95 EJ22 and EJ25's are dual port), so that's why it is needed. Exhaust manifold bolts right in place and you have to unbolt it from the engine anyway to remove the engine, so it's no extra work really.

EGR:
Have to look to determine EGR for certain. Automatics usually have EGR - but not always in 1996-1998 so it's wise to check.


If you don't care about a check engine light (in states with no emissions and check engine light isn't included in inspection) - then you have other options as well:


Basically - any 1995 EJ22 or any 1996-1998 EJ22 with exhaust manifold will work, again legacy/impreza doesn't matter. More specifically:

3. 1995 EJ22 without EGR (manual transmissions don't have EGR in 1995

4. 1996-1998 without EGR and again get a single port EJ22 exhaust manifold.

______________________


General notes:
swap the EJ25 flexplate onto the EJ22 engine.

some evap stuff is different in later years...easy to work around, search and someone put a link here if they find a good thread. just swapping/managing vacuum hoses, not a big deal.

automatic/manual does not matter. in 1995 automatics have EGR and manuals do not - so "auto/manual" is simply an indicator of EGR in 1995. but automatic/manual by itself is meaningless and doesn't matter.

Car runs perfectly fine, plug and play without EGR, but you'll get a check engine light which some states don't allow. In states where it doesn't matter - ignore the CEL and run it forever without issue.
 

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OBW H6 VDC, Tribeca, XT6
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Discussion Starter #2
EJ18's can also be swapped into an EJ25 easily:

1. remove the EJ18 intake manifold
2. install a knock sensor (the hole is already there and tapped, just unused)
3. install an EJ22 intake manifold - it bolts right up, identical bolt pattern/gaskets

At this point the engine is just like the EJ22's listed above electronically - plug and play.

Use any EJ18 1990-1996 - they are all dual port exhaust, same as EJ25D's.
I think they all also have EGR so you'll either:

A. want an EJ22 intake manifold with EGR

or

B. use an EJ22 intake mainfold without EGR and just block off the EGR hole in the head. Make a plate to cover it up or cut the EGR tube, crimp it, and weld it shut, or weld a small metal bead/ball into the EGR tube. This will give a check engine light though when installed in EGR engines, like EJ25D's.

I have never attempted swapping an EJ25 intake manifold wiring harness onto an EJ18 intake manifold, unsure if that's possible or no.

Again - use the EJ25 flexplate

eagleeye Edit: I took the EJ18 listing off the thread title, 110hp, and 110-120 torque,
originally for a light antique impreza stuck into a EJ25D powered car,...defines pokey. at least the happy EJ22 came in the legacy.


 

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I has car.
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Stickied!!
 

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'97 Outback Limited, 2.5 DOHC, Automatic, ABS
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I for one do appreciate the time you take, and doubly appreciate your no BS answers, thanx,S
 

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No Subie for me, not anymore
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This is awesome! I may be doing this in the very near future...
 

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1999 Outback, 2.5 L DOHC, MT
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Looks like I'll be needing this too. I'm currently looking at EJ22 options for my outback through my tears.
 

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No Subie for me, not anymore
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This is awesome! I may be doing this in the very near future...
Hahahahahaahaaaaaa yeahhhhh. Not worth it now, should have done this months ago instead of head gasket repair.
 

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On the Super Mod Squad
2002 Pair: 3.0 VDC Wag & 2.5 Limited Sedan
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I for one do appreciate the time you take, and doubly appreciate your no BS answers, thanx,S
I was just looking for your thread on EJ25D head gaskets,...and its gone....going to put in a EJ22 instead.?
 

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2019 Outback 3.6R Limited Magnelite Grey and loaded; '98 Legacy Outback Limited MT-53,150 miles!
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How many EJ22's are left? Seems like everyone from Vanagon and other VW to replicar and old Suby owners are seeking that engine, and it brings me to wonder about their continuing availability.

Is there still a JDM supply? Or has it come to haunting junkyards in hopes of finding this solution-providing engine model?

After all, they weren't THAT reliable. I had one that 1)lost cam a seal under warranty, then 2) lost that cam seal again under repair warranty (at which point Subaru informed me that they were disallowing my future engine warranty claims because my oil receipts were deemed inadequate, but I think it was really because I continued my commute to their repair reception area and left what remained of the oil pouring out onto their apron), then not long after, 3)developed an on again/off again horrendously loud piston racket after startup that I suspect resulted from Subaru letting the car sit for three weeks unrepaired when I brought their failed cam seal repair back to them, that noise continued very embarrassingly until in it's grand finale' 4) it blew a hole in #3 piston big enough to drive through at 113k miles.

I'd rather have had a potential head gasket issue, I think.

Anyway, after the engine blew I found an indy repair guy who had set up shop after nine years working for our local Suby dealer who sourced a JDM long block, did the change in under a week, and charged me exactly $406.74 (I've never forgotten this one time in which I felt like an auto repair business hadn't at least tried to screw me and I hope the fellow thrived).

That JDM engine went 175k miles without issue until I sold the car running fine with 285k miles. I felt I was pushing my luck, but have often wished I'd kept the car. It was the last of the maual low range transfercase and I've never felt that the '98 5sp AWD OB version measured up to the older GL's.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
They're easily found here, PNW has exorbitantly high prices and demand.

That's a terrible EJ22 and dealership experience but it is anecdotal. I'm surprised you went back to Subaru after that, the service is worse than the engine. If every engine with one bad experience is deemed "unreliable" - then every engine ever made is unreliable. I get it - it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I avoid stuff for the same reason (like the EJ25) and yes please avoid the EJ22 forever because you'd hate it more to have another issue! (which I've seen the EJ25 have innumberable times). But one experience is a far cry from a robust statistically quantifiable representation of engine reliability played out over a quarter century now.
 

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2019 Outback 3.6R Limited Magnelite Grey and loaded; '98 Legacy Outback Limited MT-53,150 miles!
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They're easily found here, PNW has exorbitantly high prices and demand.

That's a terrible EJ22 and dealership experience but it is anecdotal. I'm surprised you went back to Subaru after that, the service is worse than the engine. If every engine with one bad experience is deemed "unreliable" - then every engine ever made is unreliable. I get it - it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I avoid stuff for the same reason (like the EJ25) and yes please avoid the EJ22 forever because you'd hate it more to have another issue! (which I've seen the EJ25 have innumberable times). But one experience is a far cry from a robust statistically quantifiable representation of engine reliability played out over a quarter century now.
Sure, it was a dealership issue yet the EJ22 were notorious for dropping oil in a somewhat dramatic style, mostly through the cam seals. Better seals, better technique would and often did resolve that one.

You loft such arguments in favor of EJ22 yet drive the six cylinder instead. Does that not make your anectdotal condemnations of the newer four cylinder also hearsay? This goes to my question directly.

My question is to this net driven adolation of the older engine. It has raised the prices for those engines and I wonder who really is benefitting in light of the fact that the EJ25 engine problems, so often cited, were in fact only on an order of some 10% of overall usage and which have effectively been addressed both in the aftermarket and by Subaru through better sealing/better technique to a point that few owners of newer or update engines experience the cited problems today. It's usually more economical to fix what you have than to enter a mad seeking for a holy grail, a grail generated in whole by a few forum reported direct experiences then blown out of proportion by second hand internet gossip.

Is all.
 

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For those of us who have had our hands greasy with both engines on more than one occasion, the desirability of the EJ18/22 is not blown out of proportion.

Given there was no 6 cyl option for the 1st gen, I'm not really seeing the conflict surrounding the fact that Gary drives an EZ30D 2nd gen and has a preference for the EJ22 over the EJ25 for 1st gens.

The EJ25D is more costly and difficult to work on than the EJ22 or EJ18. That's purely objective. . . I can pull up part costs and labor times if you need further proof. Consider valve adjustment if nothing else. . . the bucket & shim arrangement on the 25D is far more costly if you need to grind the valves & set clearances than the simple screw adjusters on the 18/22 and the phase 2 EJ251/2/3 SOHC engines. You've got twice as many cam seals (which seem to be of major concern to you), spark plugs that are more difficult to change, and a timing belt setup with 4 composite pulleys instead of 2 metal ones.

So yeah, the EJ22 is preferred whether you're building an experimental aircraft, converting a Westy, or just wanna keep your 95-99 Outback running a while longer.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You loft such arguments
I never argued anything, I'm here to learn and help.

Accurate information and options help people find the best fit for a given situation. This thread presents and option, I'm sorry if it comes across to negative or comparative regarding the EJ25, I really don't care too much about that. It's a great engine in plenty of circumstances and certainly worth repairing, I equally instruct, guide when people need EJ25 help and have repaired people's EJ25 headgaskets for free. Cut me some slack, I'm not that bad of a person I dont' think.

This thread presents another option, because options are good, and it's very attractive for some.
I think it's attractive because:

1. EJ22's are available and cheaper than EJ25's in many areas. see Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market.

Cost and availability alone are frequently attractive, particularly on 20 year old vehicles

2. EJ22's have fewer headgasket issues than EJ25D's.

3. EJ22's blow fewer rod bearings than EJ25's.

This is supported across a wide array of information sources. They can be named, linked too, and found.

If the EJ22 is a worse engine - then tell all, give sources, and show statistically significant failure modes so we can learn to address them. I'm all about it, I love forward movement - headed some where, actually gaining something, winning, and learning. let's do it. name it, claim it, point, link, prove it.

And if we're allowed to laugh a little here - again I'm not arguing or trying to be personal like some of your comments seemed - i'm just discussing and sometimes conversations are funny - seals are a bit funny to mention because the EJ25 and EJ22 have the same seals - same part number in the 1990's and EJ25's have twice as many cam seals of an EJ22 - 4 instead of 2. So statistically speaking (failure rate of a cam seal X every seal installed), they'll have almost twice the failure rate of an EJ22 if viewed as a Fermi problem across decades and 100's of thousands of engines).

(technical note: EJ22 and EJ25 failure rates will differ by very small margins due to heat, head, oil supply differences of design, but those differences will be small compared to the orders of magnitude difference of an EJ25 having twice as many seals and points of failure as an EJ22)

About seals - older seals were worse materials (typically black) than the newer brown (typically) material of OEM seals. Again - true of the EJ25 and lots of other Subaru engines. The older EA82, ER27 stuff had the black seals and they were definitely not as robust.

You loft such arguments in favor of EJ22 yet drive the six cylinder instead. Does that not make your anectdotal condemnations of the newer four cylinder also hearsay?
I'm not sure what that means?

I drive a 6 cylinder for room, latch (not available in the 90's or 2.2's) and rust has all but ruined the 90's market stuff where I live unless you really just want one.

I did favor the 6 cylinder over the EJ25 to avoid EJ25 headgasket issues and timing belt maintenance. That's a lengthy discussion though, but I'll leave it at that for now.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sooo a 1991 EJ22 wouldn't quite plug and play into my 1997 OBW? lol
Actually no it doesn't work like you describe but it's easily done.

Bolt a 1995+ intake manifold onto your 1991 EJ22 and follow all the directions in this thread. 94 and earlier all have dual port heads that bolt right up to the EJ25 exhaust, like 1995 EJ22's.

SLAM DUNK
 

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May I ask. I have a 1997 ej25d obw and just got a 1995 legacy with a 2.2.

Both are 5 speed.

What work would it entail for me to keep the EGR so I can pass emissions? Thanks.


I should note that the 2.5 is running fine. I just rather use it as a project/rally motor in a hatchback shell and would rather the reliable 2.2 in my wagon.
 
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