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'01 Outback Apocalypse Wagon, 2.5 5spd
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Regarding engine interchange, what differences are there between the EJ255 used in the Forester XT vs the Baja Turbo? Assuming there are differences, are the 2004-2005 Forester XT engines also distinct?

Planning a swap into a BH Outback and I see a lot more drivetrains available from Forester XTs than Bajas.

I'm not concerned about wiring or ECU; mainly just exhaust fitment, emissions system parts, and whatnot.
 

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(oldR.I.P) 99 outback, auto, 98k | (new) 98 outback, mt, 76k
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If you're not worried about wiring issues, why not consider a better, reliable motor/drivetrain. With a bh I would even consider swapping a wrx drivetrain. those turbo foresters and baja's still have pretty weak transmissions in terms of holding powers. Use either a ej20 turbo or an h6 (ez30d, eg33<- two easiest of the h6 swaps) even an STI swap if you can find a good deal.
Matching the final drive ratios in the dif to the trans is the most important drivetrain issue. Make sure you get everything complete which ever setup you go with.

There's a lot of discussion about all these swaps over www.nasioc.com and www.rs25.com
 

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'01 Outback Apocalypse Wagon, 2.5 5spd
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you're not worried about wiring issues, why not consider a better, reliable motor/drivetrain. With a bh I would even consider swapping a wrx drivetrain. those turbo foresters and baja's still have pretty weak transmissions in terms of holding powers. Use either a ej20 turbo or an h6 (ez30d, eg33<- two easiest of the h6 swaps) even an STI swap if you can find a good deal.
Matching the final drive ratios in the dif to the trans is the most important drivetrain issue. Make sure you get everything complete which ever setup you go with.

There's a lot of discussion about all these swaps over www.nasioc.com and www.rs25.com
The reason I'm not doing an EJ20 is because a 3500 lb car with 27" tires needs all the torque it can get. I do a lot of off-roading and RallyCross.

AFAIK the transmission in the Outback, Forester, Legacy, Baja, and WRX are all the same besides minor differences in gearing. It's only the STI that gets a stronger transmission.

Unfortunately I can't make an H6 swap smog-legal in California with a manual transmission (it was never available in that configuration from the factory) so it's not an option.

I'm still looking into an STI swap. It's just a lot of work with the transmission and diff coming along with it. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and a Forester XT or Baja Turbo swap would be pretty straightforward.
 

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The reason I'm not doing an EJ20 is because a 3500 lb car with 27" tires needs all the torque it can get. I do a lot of off-roading and RallyCross.

AFAIK the transmission in the Outback, Forester, Legacy, Baja, and WRX are all the same besides minor differences in gearing. It's only the STI that gets a stronger transmission.

Unfortunately I can't make an H6 swap smog-legal in California with a manual transmission (it was never available in that configuration from the factory) so it's not an option.

I'm still looking into an STI swap. It's just a lot of work with the transmission and diff coming along with it. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and a Forester XT or Baja Turbo swap would be pretty straightforward.

You can definitely make an h6 swap smog legal. How do you see so many jdm swapped civics rolling around? I have a spot in westminster,ca that will smog you no problems :rolleyes:

an h6 engine has some good torque, upgrade the clutch and you could run your stock trans for awhile if you're easy on it
 

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'01 Outback Apocalypse Wagon, 2.5 5spd
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm no stranger to the California BAR engine change certification process.

You can definitely make an h6 swap smog legal. How do you see so many jdm swapped civics rolling around?
A functionally equivalent Japanese domestic-market long block could be converted to be CARB-compliant by installing all of the California-approved emissions equipment on the engine, and then having it inspected at a California BAR referee station. Actually I think the law changed a few years ago (the same time generic aftermarket catalytic converters were outlawed), and it may no longer be allowed.

The JDM-sourced long block approval is not the same as a typical "engine change" (the term BAR uses to refer to engine swaps).

An engine change requires that all original drivetrain and chassis emissions equipment remain functional. The interpretation of "emissions equipment" by BAR includes the original drivetrain configuration -- that is, the combination of the engine, transmission, and engine management system.

One of the most basic parts of the inspection is verifying that the drivetrain configuration as installed is permitted. That requires the engine be available in an emissions-compliant configuration, i.e. from an existing car that was sold in California. Unfortunately, Subaru never produced an emissions-legal H6 / manual trans drivetrain in any vehicle in the United States, at least not in the last 20 years.

BAR referees have been inconsistent on considering the exact transmission as essential. Some have allowed different transmissions, such as when I BAR-certified my 3.4 DOHC V6 Fiero with a Getrag 282 instead of a Getrag 284. Others have disallowed such substitutions. What the referees are consistent on is automatic vs manual transmissions. If an engine was never available in an emissions-compliant configuration (i.e. from the dealer) with a manual transmission in California, it can't be used in one for an engine change.

I have a spot in westminster,ca that will smog you no problems :rolleyes:
So you don't understand (or don't care) the difference between legal and "not getting caught". That's ok, but I do understand, and I do care. It's not that I agree with CARB on what the emissions laws are and how they should be enforced. Who does? I mainly don't like dealing with the PITA of having "a guy" smog it, and then getting stopped at a rolling smog checkpoint (yes, they do exist).
 

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An ej255 is an ej255. There might be a few revisions on the years, but they should be interchangeable. BTW, that only refers to the block. The heads, turbo, etc will all be very different depending on the model you're swapping. But...if you're looking to go with an ej255, you might as well go with an ej257 (the sti block). Same engine, but with a nitrated crankshaft. The prices are basically the same, so it makes sense to go with that.

I'm guessing that you'll have better luck with the baja exhaust parts fitting based on the platform similarities to what you have.
 

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I'm no stranger to the California BAR engine change certification process.





So you don't understand (or don't care) the difference between legal and "not getting caught". That's ok, but I do understand, and I do care. It's not that I agree with CARB on what the emissions laws are and how they should be enforced. Who does? I mainly don't like dealing with the PITA of having "a guy" smog it, and then getting stopped at a rolling smog checkpoint (yes, they do exist).
I can bet you only a quarter of the swapped honda's in california are BAR'd just because they are JDM motors. Not USDM. if you take a same year, or newer STOCK engine and swap it in with all correct components. (not including a/t or m/t transmissions) than it should be able to pass smog and can get BAR'd.

Engine Change Guidelines


I can't find anything in there about not being able to swap transmissions though.
 

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I can bet you only a quarter of the swapped honda's in california are BAR'd just because they are JDM motors. Not USDM. if you take a same year, or newer STOCK engine and swap it in with all correct components. (not including a/t or m/t transmissions) than it should be able to pass smog and can get BAR'd.

Engine Change Guidelines


I can't find anything in there about not being able to swap transmissions though.
Or you could just find a WRX and run the **** out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
An ej255 is an ej255. There might be a few revisions on the years, but they should be interchangeable. BTW, that only refers to the block. The heads, turbo, etc will all be very different depending on the model you're swapping. But...if you're looking to go with an ej255, you might as well go with an ej257 (the sti block). Same engine, but with a nitrated crankshaft. The prices are basically the same, so it makes sense to go with that.

I'm guessing that you'll have better luck with the baja exhaust parts fitting based on the platform similarities to what you have.
Thanks for the tips.


Engine Change Guidelines


I can't find anything in there about not being able to swap transmissions though.
Unfortunately that's just a teaser of the full regulations.

Unfortunately x2: BAR makes it pretty hard to get the full details on the swap guidelines. The best way is to just call them and ask questions for an hour. Ugh. I finally ended up with a copy of the referee manual AFTER I got my other car to pass. I'll post it up here when I find it (thought I had it in my Gmail but I just checked and its not there).
 

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(oldR.I.P) 99 outback, auto, 98k | (new) 98 outback, mt, 76k
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Thanks for the tips.




Unfortunately that's just a teaser of the full regulations.

Unfortunately x2: BAR makes it pretty hard to get the full details on the swap guidelines. The best way is to just call them and ask questions for an hour. Ugh. I finally ended up with a copy of the referee manual AFTER I got my other car to pass. I'll post it up here when I find it (thought I had it in my Gmail but I just checked and its not there).

alright cool i would love to check out that manual! i've been in the process of gathering parts to do a wrx/h6 hybrid swap in the spring. Not very concerned with getting this car BAR'd but im interested in reading about the process and rules of getting it done. (if that makes sense)
 
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