[J Delman]

I'm still hunting for a front endlink upgrade that fits the 12mm mounting holes at the front of the 2013 Outback (not sure if size is different on 2010-2012). Kartboy doesn't make one. Anyone with a good recommendation?

 

[denn]

nice right up and Im glad to see people are modifying the Outback.. I have questions. Did you purchase the two additional 1/4" spacers, and get two additional flat washers from Kartboy or somewhere else?

 

[OBnube]

Stock 2013 RSB is 16mm not 19mm.

 

[J Delman]

OBnube - You're correct. I'd read on another forum that it has a stock 19mm RSB, but measured it and it's 16mm. Not sure I'd want to go with a 19mm with the Kartboys in there. It seems to have taken care of the sloshy rear end just fine, and still retains comfort. I think one or the other would probably be about equivalent, but both would be too much, too stiff, too much loss of independence of rear suspension.

After a couple more days, I noticed the neutrality of not drawing attention to itself remained when not pushed on cornering, but WOW, can I really push the cornering speed and G-force now! Corners like a sports car, with no hint of losing being about to lose traction on dry pavement during aggressive street driving.

 

[J Delman]

denn - Kartboy sent me some extra spacers and washers. You need one 1/4" wide for the top, and one for the bottom, plus a 1/2" for the bottom. If you buy from somewhere like Rally Sport Direct (GREAT customer support!), then you'll probably need to order the four 1/4" spacer pack meant to go with a Whiteline RSB. Not sure if the washers are readily available in hardware stores. You might be able to talk Tom at Kartboy into providing a special pack for rear Outbacks, now that he's got info I sent him on the setup.

 

[japmaxse]

Hi J thanks for providing the steps but I'm a little confused with the washer spacer deal.

The link you provided does this show everything we need or do we have to ask Kartboy for extra spacers & washers?


What is the difference of a flat washer vs aluminum washer you mention in your write up?

If you could list exactly what parts are needed top and bottom again.

Thanks,

 

[J Delman]

Hi J thanks for providing the steps but I'm a little confused with the washer spacer deal.

The link you provided does this show everything we need or do we have to ask Kartboy for extra spacers & washers?


What is the difference of a flat washer vs aluminum washer you mention in your write up?

If you could list exactly what parts are needed top and bottom again.

Thanks,

The link is the basic kit. I'm not sure about Outbacks other than 2013, but it fit a 2013 very well in the order I described.

All spacers (aluminum), and washers (flat steel) are to fit the 10mm diameter bolts supplied, and all are 1" outer diameter.

Besides what is in the link, you'll need a few extra parts: Two more 1/4" wide aluminum spacers (the kit includes two - four total are needed). You could get by without the extra steel washer (next to the aluminum one on the top), but it does help straighten out the vertical more, which is what you want to do. The steel washers may be available locally, I don't know. They can be a little larger if needed. I received somehow some that were about 1.5mm thick, and some that were closer to 2.25 thick. Use thicker ones if you have them next to the aluminum spacer on the upper connection. You can use the thinner one next to the bushing, where it is needed to support the bushing so it won't blow out.

These are the extra aluminum spacers (in a pack of four) you can order here:
Kartboy Whiteline Front Swaybar Spacers Subaru WRX / STI 2002-2007 at RallySportDirect.com

Read my previous description of the order that the parts go. It's pretty clear if you visualize it. Look under your car at the where the stock endlinks connected to help you visualize. The are connected at the top to the Rear Stabilizer Bar (RSB), and at the bottom fit into the U-shape of the suspension arm.

 

[OTHRider]

Here's a photo & text from the link for the spacers. I imagine a stack of washers would work just fine. The spacers do provide a "finished" look. Stacked washers scream "I made a mistake and Home Depot fixed it".

This is EXACTLY how these should be installed. Note not only the location of the spacers, but also how the washers are placed. Failure to do so may cause the bushings to wear out pre maturely.

 

[J Delman]

OTHRider - Those are the FRONT links, not the rear links. Completely different setup! But you can see there how you need either a washer or spacer to go right next to the bushing on each side.

BTW, the front Kartboy links will NOT fit a 2013 Outback, due to the Outback's mounting bolts being 12mm. Kartboy only makes links for 10mm mounting bolts. I am not sure if 2010-2012 Outbacks would fit them.

 

[japmaxse]

The link is the basic kit. I'm not sure about Outbacks other than 2013, but it fit a 2013 very well in the order I described.

All spacers (aluminum), and washers (flat steel) are to fit the 10mm diameter bolts supplied, and all are 1" outer diameter.

Besides what is in the link, you'll need a few extra parts: Two more 1/4" wide aluminum spacers (the kit includes two - four total are needed). You could get by without the extra steel washer (next to the aluminum one on the top), but it does help straighten out the vertical more, which is what you want to do. The steel washers may be available locally, I don't know. They can be a little larger if needed. I received somehow some that were about 1.5mm thick, and some that were closer to 2.25 thick. Use thicker ones if you have them next to the aluminum spacer on the upper connection. You can use the thinner one next to the bushing, where it is needed to support the bushing so it won't blow out.

These are the extra aluminum spacers (in a pack of four) you can order here:
Kartboy Whiteline Front Swaybar Spacers Subaru WRX / STI 2002-2007 at RallySportDirect.com

Read my previous description of the order that the parts go. It's pretty clear if you visualize it. Look under your car at the where the stock endlinks connected to help you visualize. The are connected at the top to the Rear Stabilizer Bar (RSB), and at the bottom fit into the U-shape of the suspension arm.

Ahh ok I looked under the car and visualized it which makes much more sense now. But I think in your first post instructions for the top link you say " 1/4" aluminum washer " you mean spacer right? Which brings it to 4 1/4" spacers as you explained.

 

[J Delman]

Yes, I did mean 1/4" aluminum SPACER. I just corrected that in an edit, as well as clarified the instruction language a little better.

I think you'll be VERY happy with this aprx. $100 upgrade. The Outback really hugs the turns now. You can take them much quicker, and throttle pretty hard coming off the apex of the turn for fun.

The only 'downside' I've noticed is the steering seems less linear than before. It might be that I'm just getting used to the increased responsiveness, and working on how I habitually steer so I match the improved tuning. With the quicker response to steering input, I might be initially turning in a little too sharply, then going a little too straight to even it out, then trying to turn more at the end to make up for that. I'm still refining my steering behavior to match the car. I'm starting to try less initial turn-in.

 

[J Delman]

Looks like my RSB is off center, causing the left endlink to be off vertical by about 1/4". I think I can loosen the lower endlink mounts and tap the RSB to the left about 1/8", then retighten. I might want to add another washer or two to each upper endlink mount to maintain the vertical.

 

[japmaxse]

I've been doing some reading on this RSB upgrade latley and I see lots of folks including other forums suggest if you go with a bigger bar you will never see it's full potential without beefier end links. Now I just need to decide if I'm going to go 19 or 22 RSB.

I think the 22 with end links may hurt me when I go offroad but I'm not sure if this is true or how it will affect the driving characteristics on rocky dirt roads. lol I just dunno what to pick.

 

[J Delman]

From what I've been reading, a beefier bar than the stock one will probably eat up the stock endlinks, especially if you go off-road. Plan on replacing the endlinks if you upgrade the bar, but maybe start with the endlinks? I did that on the 2013 and am happy with it as it is, but the 2012 is a sloshier beast. Be careful about going too beefy on the bar, as the endlinks will stiffen things considerably, and a 22mm may pound you and not give you much in the way of independent rear suspension.

BTW, regarding my last statement about finding my RSB off center. I'll probably need to add about 1/8" more spacing on the upper mount, so I think the 1/2" spacer should perhaps replace the 1/4" spacer + flat washer for the upper mount. Check that out first and see if your links are parallel. Also, you wouldn't need to purchase more 1/4" spacers if that's the case, but for $5 they might be good to have on hand in case you'd like to use them and don't want to redo things. Keep in mind some changes were made on the 2013, and I don't know how it might affect your installation.

Also, I found the exact washers at the local large hardware store. They were in the bin to match 3/8" bolts, though hold is oversized. Outer diameter is 1". Thickness is 2mm. If you need more washers than come with the kit, you can shoot me a few bucks and I'll get some off to you.

 

[CGIM5804]

Interested in this MOD but afraid of screwing this up. Anyone in north NJ that knows what they are doing what to throw out a price to install these for me? PM me.

Thanks.

 

[J Delman]

I don't think the lateral SB locks would serve much purpose with the Kartboys. They are solid links rather than ball joint, and once torqued down strongly as suggested at about 40 lbs, would fix the lateral position anyway. It's more a matter of setting it centered in upon first installing them, something I didn't notice on the first attempt. With the Whiteline locks, one would have to go through that centering process before installing them anyway.

 

[J Delman]

Also, the stock RSB has built-in stops alongside the mount bushings.

And BTW regarding post #15, I did swap the 1/4" spacer + washer on the upper endlink mount to th 1/2" spacer and it's just right.

 

[J Delman]

From what I've been reading, a beefier bar than the stock one will probably eat up the stock endlinks, especially if you go off-road. Plan on replacing the endlinks if you upgrade the bar, but maybe start with the endlinks? I did that on the 2013 and am happy with it as it is, but the 2012 is a sloshier beast. Be careful about going too beefy on the bar, as the endlinks will stiffen things considerably, and a 22mm may pound you and not give you much in the way of independent rear suspension.

BTW, regarding my last statement about finding my RSB off center. I'll probably need to add about 1/8" more spacing on the upper mount, so I think the 1/2" spacer should perhaps replace the 1/4" spacer + flat washer for the upper mount. Check that out first and see if your links are parallel. Also, you wouldn't need to purchase more 1/4" spacers if that's the case, but for $5 they might be good to have on hand in case you'd like to use them and don't want to redo things. Keep in mind some changes were made on the 2013, and I don't know how it might affect your installation.

Also, I found the exact washers at the local large hardware store. They were in the bin to match 3/8" bolts, though hold is oversized. Outer diameter is 1". Thickness is 2mm. If you need more washers than come with the kit, you can shoot me a few bucks and I'll get some off to you.

Yes, I did mean 1/4" aluminum SPACER. I just corrected that in an edit, as well as clarified the instruction language a little better.

I think you'll be VERY happy with this aprx. $100 upgrade. The Outback really hugs the turns now. You can take them much quicker, and throttle pretty hard coming off the apex of the turn for fun.

The only 'downside' I've noticed is the steering seems less linear than before. It might be that I'm just getting used to the increased responsiveness, and working on how I habitually steer so I match the improved tuning. With the quicker response to steering input, I might be initially turning in a little too sharply, then going a little too straight to even it out, then trying to turn more at the end to make up for that. I'm still refining my steering behavior to match the car. I'm starting to try less initial turn-in.

Regarding this, I thought perhaps the rubber RSB mounts were gripping the RSB with too much tension and affecting the response. Particularly because the Kartboy endlinks are about 1/2" taller than stock, so the bushing ended up with some twist in them when it all bolted up. I took them off and greased them up with some grease non-destructive to rubber where the hold against the RSB. This allowed the RSB to settle in where it is most neutral.

I took the car for a spirited and windy canyon ride. The steering become MUCH more linear! Though a little less of a fun whip when gunning it out of turns, I really liked the overall feel afterward. That exciting whip may have been from tension winding up in the rubber RSB mount bushings. It grips the RSB very tightly if ungreased.

Perhaps no grease is needed - maybe just loosening the bushing mounts while installing the Kartboys and making sure the suspension is settled before tightening would be enough. If you do this, tighten the RSB mounts on level ground, and/or see that the right and left endlinks looked vertical balanced first, or the rubber may grip it out of ideal position.

 

[scoobydoo2]

Just replaced my rear stock stabilizer bar ENDLINKS with some Kartboy solid endlinks to the rear of my 2013 Outback. Here is the model that fits:

Kartboy dot com :: Subaru Impreza RS :: 2008-2013 RS :: Kartboy 2008+ Rear Endlink Kit

While retaining the stock 19mm RSB, I notice a very nice improvement. The rear end feels very well behaved. It's almost like I expected something to "happen", but it's just simply very well composed, almost like it's 'nothing' rather than 'something' to be aware of and attentive to. Before, the rear drew attention to itself with some sloppy action which I'd control with steering. With the Kartboys, the handling of the tail went from something I would 'notice' to 'nothing noticeable'. Now, the tail just goes where it's supposed to and does what it's meant to do, with surprisingly near-perfect precision and neutrality. Feels comfortable and quiet too. Maybe I feel a little bit more of the waviness on road surfaces.

I'm now finding - as somewhat expected - the front of the vehicle now stands out more as being less controlled than the rear. It feels like I'm needing to give somewhat more turn-in of the steering wheel when going through a turn (understeer from a too-good back end?). Either that, or perhaps I'm just more willing to turn it sharper as the car stays flatter. It is also feeling more fun to hit the gas coming out of a turn, whereas before it felt more ill-mannered.

If someone else wants to do this, let me save you maybe a half-hour of time under your car fussing with fitting the spacers.
I used the following spacer/washer order with the Kartboys for very good correct vertical placement, but you'll need to order two additional 1/4" spacers, and get two additional flat washers:

Rear endlink spacing for Kartboy endlinks on 2013 Outback:


Top of link, from OUTSIDE toward INSIDE:

- NOTE: You'll need to put top bolt in position before installing lower bolt, or it won't clear enough for you to install it. This would have saved me a lot of messing around with having to unbolt lowers after already bolting them on.

- Kartboy bolt (replaces stock bolt) >
- Flat washer (needed to hold bushing in) >
- Kartboy endlink (NOTE: End with small dot drilled in mounts on lower bolt) >

- 1/4" aluminum spacer >
- Flat washer (use the slightly thicker one here if you were given two thicknesses) >
NOTE!! See my posts below, posts #13 & #15. 1/2" spacer might be better than 1/4" spacer + flat washer. You want both links to be close to vertical and parallel with each other - do your own fine tuning here.

- Go through Rear Stabilizer Bar mounting hole >
- Kartboy nut outide RSB mouting hole.


Bottom of link, from front of car to back (this is a perfect confirmed fit on my 2013 Outback):

- Reuse Stock Bolt - Place into control arm mounting hole from front >
- 1/2" wide aluminum spacer - just inside of mounting hole>
- Kartboy endlink (dot on one end goes at bottom) >
- 1/4" wide aluminum spacer >
- Bolt exists control arm mouting hole toward rear >
- Reuse stock nut. DO NOT try to use a Kartboy nut here - it's a different threading.

NOTE: The stock spec for torque is 24 lbs. Apparently you can go to 40 with the Kartboys. I just did 35 lbs. , which I recall reading somewhere as recommended.

One further tip: I noticed the mounting holes on the Suby parts were a bit oversized. Rather than tighten it down completely where it first mounted (which it could slip a little from) before it settled into the normal position, I snugged up the bolts slightly loose, drove down the street to let the parts settle into position, then came back and tightened everything down. You'll be working near your exhaust, so be careful of heat. If you only drive it a short distance, it will likely only be a little warm to the touch.

:ttiwwp: they would help make things a little clearer...