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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #1
I got the engine out without any serious issues. It was actually pretty easy. The rear end work was much more difficult.

Once out I tore off the clutch and found something I have never seen before and I did not find the oil leak I thought I would find.

I attached photos. I am hoping some of the experts here can explain a few things and maybe give me some input.

QUESTIONS:

1: What is the splatter on the flywheel? I have never seen this before. Strangely the pilot bearing was either installed improperly or it started to come out when the engine was removed. I was planning to replace it anyways but thought it was wierd.

2: Behind the flywheel I DID NOT find the oil leak I anticipated. I thought the leak would be from the aluminum cover plate on the passenger side of the engine back side. I was losing a quart every 750 miles and I was finding oil stains on the driveway or wherever I parked. The oil soaked the crossmember where the engine was mounted. It also covered the power steering components. The bottom of the engine had significant oil accumulation. It now appears to be an oil pan leak. Please review the attached photos and give me your opinion. The driver side had the most oil accumulation. The passenger side and front were practically dry. There was some oil that accumulated on the driver side head but it does not appear to be the source of the leak.

3: There was a little wet oil near the center of the crankshaft however there was no oil trails or accumulation leading towards the center of the crankshaft. PLEASE LOOK AT THE PHOTOS with the rear main seal. There was some oil on the seal but there does not appear to be a leak and no oil drained downward from the crankshaft. I would say this was not a source of oil escaping from the engine. ANYONE agree with this??

4: IF it appears to be the oil pan that is leaking, anyone done this before and any recommendations?

Thanks for any help!!!
 

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FU**! This is a hot mess!
The scratches on what looks like the clutch plate could be from a hoist or a tranny stand. Without being there to see the housing and the pressure plate and throw out bearing, it's guess work.
You're questioning why there's oil on the pan, drivers side, did you look for a cracked gasket, or slipped gasket, or when the oil was either added or changed, sloppy work, had oil run down, or it could be the sending unit.
Only seeing a few pics, and the best advice I can give you, every gasket you see, replace!
If you want to do this right, and you plan on keeping this for awhile, do it right. A bandaid can't fix it.
From top to bottom, change all the gaskets. Take the parts to be cleaned and checked.
Sorry, I don't see a quick fix for you.



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If you have another leak after you put this back together, use a dye in the oil. Bright color, so you can see where it's coming from.

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2005 Outback 2.5i - 5 speed - 191K
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Discussion Starter #4
Every Gasket?

The head gaskets do not appear to be the leak source. Not sure what other gaskets are in the area of the oil pan/bottom of engine. I will check the oil fill O-Ring at the bottom of the tube.

Oil running down was not the issue. I religiously use a funnel and wipe any excess.

Top of the engine is free from any oil. Dry as a bone. Oil pressure switch is on top of the engine I believe.

The clutch plate/pressure plate is actually in good shape, I just don't know what the splatter marks are. Did the pilot bearing rupture? Is the splatter from the internal lubrication in the pilot bearing?

The oil pan does not have a gasket, it is only sealed with silicone (triple bond is recommended and that is what I am going to use).

I am going to clean the engine top to bottom tomorrow and start with the oil pan.
 

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2005 Legacy GT wagon 5MT Limited
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Apparently trb has not seen a hot mess, this ain't bad at all.
Flywheel & pilot bearing - are those splatters grease? I'm wondering if somebody lubed the pilot before pressing it in. That would explain both the splatters and the easy extraction. The extraction is not a big deal, a small fraction of a degree on the input shaft during removal can do that.
Oil leak - sure does look like the pan, assuming there are no higher trails you haven't shown.
While doing the pan, highly advise an upgraded oil pickup.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
UPGRADED OIL PICKUP? Where do I get one of those??? I want to do this once so help is nice.

I will check to see if the splatters are grease tomorrow in the daylight but that is the only thing I can figure. They must have happened before I removed the engine though.

No oil higher than the bottom of the heads/block and oil pan.

DID the small amount of oil around the Rear Main seem normal?

Any other recommendations while the engine is out?
 

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UPGRADED OIL PICKUP? Where do I get one of those??? I want to do this once so help is nice.

I will check to see if the splatters are grease tomorrow in the daylight but that is the only thing I can figure. They must have happened before I removed the engine though.

No oil higher than the bottom of the heads/block and oil pan.

DID the small amount of oil around the Rear Main seem normal?

Any other recommendations while the engine is out?
Look up the schematics for your Subaru. Engine, tranny and clutch assembly.
It may help you to see everything up close to compare.


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Discussion Starter #9
2005 Outback 2.5i

I have the factory manual and it has fantastic exploded images.

BTW, I checked out the splatter on the flywheel and it is dried. Whatever it was happened a long time ago. So I am guessing that is a non issue.
 

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http://www.killerbmotorsport.net/oiling-products/oil-pickups/ultimate-oil-pickup-ej25.html
A great idea for a 2005, which is before the OEM pickups got reinforced.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention the oil on the crankshaft end. Looks like that seal is maybe starting to sweat just a bit. I'd hit it, don't want to be back in there in 2 years. I haven't tried this, but the drywall screw technique sounds pretty nifty.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293133

While it's out... double-check the VC gaskets, replace the PCV valve, go over all the vacuum lines with a fine-toothed comb. If the breather hoses are rock hard, consider proactive replacement. Make sure all the little clamps holding the rubber fuel hoses to the fuel rails are snug. Consider adding nuts to lock them in place. Inspect the coolant hoses to the throttle body; if the air hose is seated poorly, oil can get on those hoses and degrade them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
While you are handing out advice, what is the recommended method to get that big ass Rear Main Seal back onto the crankshaft. I happened to order a new one in anticipation for this project.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
WOW, I just realized I MAY have the older plastic oil separator plate on my engine!

It looks like the old concave screw holes. Can anyone confirm if this is the steel or composite plate?
 

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2005 OBXT Limited, VF37, STI intake, 5MT
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WOW, I just realized I MAY have the older plastic oil separator plate on my engine!

It looks like the old concave screw holes. Can anyone confirm if this is the steel or composite plate?
You do not have the old plastic plate. The black plastic plate and the thick aluminum plate use the same screws. The "newest" rendition is a thin, stamped steel plate; those use the different screws.

It looks as though you have a minor oil pan leak. The HG look like Fel-Pro replacements (from the blue sections of gasket showing on the bottom of the engine) and the HG and rear main area look pretty **** dry. I suspect someone did a through job cleaning the engine when doing the HG replacement (and maybe a clutch job. That flywheel looks pretty nice).

If you are concerned about the oil pickup, you can upgrade to the newer, reinforced style from Subaru. However, this will also require changing the oil pan, sump baffle, and dipstick. All told, you can get the required parts for about $100 (aftermarket and OEM) if you look carefully. The new design oil pan helps prevent oil starvation on long sweeping turns and "high angle" offroading.

Food for thought.
 

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2005 Legacy GT wagon 5MT Limited
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While you are handing out advice, what is the recommended method to get that big ass Rear Main Seal back onto the crankshaft. I happened to order a new one in anticipation for this project.
If you want to be super-duper-whatever about it, you can buy an enormous socket from Harbor Freight or the auto parts store and use it as a drift. But slowly and carefully tapping around the edge works fine.
 

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If you are concerned about the oil pickup, you can upgrade to the newer, reinforced style from Subaru. However, this will also require changing the oil pan, sump baffle, and dipstick.
The Killer B pickup works with the '05 pan and baffle.
 

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While you are handing out advice, what is the recommended method to get that big ass Rear Main Seal back onto the crankshaft. I happened to order a new one in anticipation for this project.
I've always used a large PVC plumbing coupling, without issue.
 

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The Killer B pickup works with the '05 pan and baffle.
According to Killer B, it does not. It's suggesting it's for the "dented" pan design (06+) which is why they list the "EJ25" versus the "EJ20" style (like Moroso or others). The "EJ20" style would work with the full square oil pan found on the 2005 turbo cars. The 06+ style had different design routing and (IIRC) a different depth (which makes them incompatible).

Besides, for $180 + shipping, and you still have to pull off the oil pan to change it, you can put a Spectra oil pan (which is well built and $52 from rockauto.com), and pickup/baffle/dipstick from an online Subaru dealer can be had for $40 or so. Better design oil pan, updated pickup, and 100% new components for less than a pickup alone.
 

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According to Killer B, it does not. It's suggesting it's for the "dented" pan design (06+) which is why they list the "EJ25" versus the "EJ20" style (like Moroso or others). The "EJ20" style would work with the full square oil pan found on the 2005 turbo cars. The 06+ style had different design routing and (IIRC) a different depth (which makes them incompatible).

Besides, for $180 + shipping, and you still have to pull off the oil pan to change it, you can put a Spectra oil pan (which is well built and $52 from rockauto.com), and pickup/baffle/dipstick from an online Subaru dealer can be had for $40 or so. Better design oil pan, updated pickup, and 100% new components for less than a pickup alone.
Thanks for the correction, and all good points.

Anywho, OP, def swap the pickup.
 

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Oh hey, more super important stuff while you have the engine out! Turbo (and thus engine) killers to eliminate!

Get rid of the catted up-pipe. Avoid Invidia and other solid UPs, I recommend getting a low-mileage STi from NASIOC. Grimmspeed is nice but pricier for no gains. Do the 50-cent resistor mod. You'll need a new set of gaskets; OEM is OK but Grimmspeed is better and priced about the same.

Remove the screen from the banjo bolt in the back of the passenger cylinder head that feeds oil to the turbo.

These are both critical.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Possible bad news. I cleaned a majority of the oil off of the engine on the driver side. I also managed to get the oil pan off of the engine. After doing this I noticed there was still a small amount of oil on the head gasket slightly protruding from the far back corner on the driver side head. I took some engine cleaner and washed it off and let it sit. About 20 minutes later I looked at it again and more oil was present. I am guessing that this suggests a head gasket leak. It seems strange to me that the head gasket would be leaking since it is relatively new. I would say that it has less than 10000 miles on it. Also, when I removed the radiator I found that the cooling system that drained into the pan was only one gallon. I have allowed the engine to drain the coolant from inside the block but that was an insignificant amount. I know the guy that fixed the engine was pretty mechanically talented and I do not believe he would leave the radiator half full. I have not smelled any coolant leaking from the car. Do you believe that this may be a head gasket leak on one of the cooling journals that could be burning the coolant off in the engine? I will post a picture of the head gasket leak I believe I may have later this evening.
 
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