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An excellent point, Silver. I was headed for Falken Wildpeak A/T Trail 235/65-17s on Method 502s, a combo which I think looks really cool. After thinking about your comments and re-reading Wes Siler's article and the team-bhp post, I've decided to go with Method 501s and 225/65-17s. That will save me over 5 1/2 pounds of unsprung weight per wheel. I still think there is an advantage to going down to 225/65-17 from the OEM 225/60-18s- which basically weigh the same but have more sidewall and higher load; 102H 1874 vs 100H 1764. What say you?
The 17's with a taller tire is better for rough terrain but the 18's are better for highway handling? The 17's would air down better if you needed to do that. More sidewall height also provides better distance between rocks and the metal wheel - so yeah the 17's would be better for this discussion.
 

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2020 Onyx XT
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OEM has skid plates. Lp adventure or primitive should have something soon.
I would love to hear some specifics on which skid plates to get, in terms of covering different parts of the underbody.....there are many options. I don't want to pay a bunch to get stuff that isn't really needed, but on the other hand I won't skimp on the protection I do need.
 

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2020 Limited XT
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I would love to hear some specifics on which skid plates to get, in terms of covering different parts of the underbody.....there are many options. I don't want to pay a bunch to get stuff that isn't really needed, but on the other hand I won't skimp on the protection I do need.
Really it depends on what sort of off roading you want to do. Gravel roads and light dirt trails? Maybe the engine under guard/diff plate from Subaru. More rocky terrain? Then add in the transmission plate and/or rock sliders from Primitive.

Personally, since I'll see the very occasional service road, I'm sticking with the engine guard and diff protector from Subaru. Keep in mind that everything you add adds weight, which will increase fuel consumption and will negatively impact handling/payload capacity of the car.
 

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Are you saying that the vehicle already has the engine guard and differential protector, or that those items are available from Subaru? I do want to have the option of utilizing roads which may be a little bit rougher, I know there's a compromise but it's worth it to me.
 

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2020 Limited XT
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The outback comes with a plastic engine protector and no rear differential cover. There are accessories for steel skid plate/under engine guard, as well as differential cover.

P/n:
Rear Diff Guard: E515EFL201
Engine skid plate: E515SAN000 (aluminium for turbo); E515SAN010 (steel for non-turbo)

Edit: and I definitely understand wanting a bit of protection so you have the flexibility :) just have to remember that everything is a compromise when talking about cars.
 

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2020 Onyx XT
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Thank you for the info; good to know. Yep.....everything is a compromise, starting with deciding on the Onyx in the first place. I could have bought a new 4runner with the same money and enjoyed all that superior off-road performance, but the compromise in virtually every other area wasn't worth it to me. In this case, I want the best compromise between the stock Onyx at one end, and on the other extreme, going full tilt with lots of add-ons, a lift, KO2's, and on and on.....if I do that, I lose a lot of the reason I decided on the Onyx. I figure I can always decide to go that route later on if I care to.
 

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I want to get the tires right away, then skid plates and the trailer hitch; I figure on getting it all installed at the same place here in town, where the guy has a great rep and specializes in off-road stuff. Question: the differential rear under guard: it doesn't need to be aluminum as well?
 

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An excellent point, Silver. I was headed for Falken Wildpeak A/T Trail 235/65-17s on Method 502s, a combo which I think looks really cool. After thinking about your comments and re-reading Wes Siler's article and the team-bhp post, I've decided to go with Method 501s and 225/65-17s. That will save me over 5 1/2 pounds of unsprung weight per wheel. I still think there is an advantage to going down to 225/65-17 from the OEM 225/60-18s- which basically weigh the same but have more sidewall and higher load; 102H 1874 vs 100H 1764. What say you?
Just curious why you went with the 501 vs 502? I’m debating the 235/65/17 or the 225/65/17 myself but sticking with the 502’s
 

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Both are excellent wheels. I chose the 501s primarily on appearance- a little less cluttered with grooves and lettering. Also, the members have impressed me with the importance of "unsprung weight" and the 501 is 1/2 pound lighter per corner. For the same reason, I went with 225 over 235, even though I like the look of the bigger tires- another saving of 5 pounds each. Apparently heavy wheels and tires eat away at mileage, acceleration, and suspension. But truth be told, the 502/235 combo is awesome!. Let me know if this is helpful and what you decide!
 

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Thanks for the info. I’ve been leaning toward the 225’s now for the weight issue as well. Funny thing is the stock duellers which are on there now 225/60/18 are listed at 36 lbs each. Same as the 235/65/17s. The 225/65/17s are showing 30lbs each so I guess if I went with the 235s I should still be around the same weight as stock right? You should have then noticed better acceleration possibly with a lighter than stock tire? Was that the case? I am not sure how much the stock 18 wheels weigh in comparison to the 502s either so there’s that. Also, the tire shop said they thought the 235s would rub but I’ve read that people have used them without a lift a no rubbing. Still researching that. Anyone on here have any ideas about that please chime in. Thx!
 

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I have noticed that the tire websites vary quite a bit in the weight category. Discount Tire quotes the 225/60-18 Dueller as 27, and my stock 18" wheels weigh 26, so that's where I started my calculations-53 pounds per corner. The 501 is 23.8, 502 24.3. The Falken site says 30 for 225/65-17, 35 for 235. Member Fattcoffee is very happy with his Wildpeak 235/60-18s on OEM wheels; those weigh 34.1 (225 30.2), and are another good option. There's one other thing you might find useful- check out Wes Siler's great piece for Outside Magazine on the pros and cons of modding Outbacks. He is their Adventure Columnist , but it's easier to find the article on his website, indefinitelywild.com. Chock full of useful insight!
The bottom line is I'm probably overthinking this and should just get the setup that looks the best to me, but the math is pretty compelling. Have fun with your build- are you planning anything besides the tires? Me, I'm keen to get a Skid Plate from the Canadian LP Aventure folks.
 

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Going to try these tires out on my 2015 Outback I just picked up. My last Outback I had put the Geolander G015's on it but before I could really test them I gave it to my folks.
 

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I have a few question and hope you guys can help me.

I got a 2020 Outback premium with the 2.5L engine

I was ready to pull the trigger on wheels and tires.

I'm looking to replace the originals tires for Wildpeak A/t Trail 245/65/17 and Method 502 17x8 Wheels. (The combined weight is aprox. 63 lbs)

Then I read in the forum some guys saying that the 2.5 L engine is not enough to move the weight of this tires and wheels also that the MPG will be horrible, loosing more that 5 MPG. and I got really scare.

I really would like to hear some of your opinion.

I'm not that worried for the loosing MPG but I am very worry to kill the power of the 2.5 and the handling of the car. It's that bad??

Thanks a lot
 

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I had the same concerns, although I know the 245s would look better, it's extra weight and possibly rubbing.
I ended up keeping the stock size tire.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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I'm not that worried for the loosing MPG but I am very worry to kill the power of the 2.5 and the handling of the car. It's that bad??
All things being relative, yes it is that bad. If you feel the 2.5 is barely powerful enough as it is, you won't want to go bigger.

As you mentioned, the unsprung weight will make handling and ride worse. Subaru went through the trouble of putting aluminum arms in front and rear suspensions and getting heavier wheels and tires will negate that.

The additional sidewall height will make the tires respond less crisply to steering inputs and make handling more mushy. That added sidewall height can come in handy for heavy duty off road stuff, because you can air down and get a larger contact patch and still protect the wheel. Do you need that?

The additional diameter of the larger tire will decrease torque and acceleration.

The additional rotational mass of the tire and wheel will make acceleration slower (think about how people use lightened crank pulleys and this is essentially the opposite - making the rotational mass heavier).

My first car was a 1978 ford fiesta. It handled like it was on rails, very lithe and agile feeling. Then I got wider tires and it felt dead and sluggish. Yes it makes a difference.

Here's a corvette forum where they're advocating smaller wheels and tires for racing

It's physics. If you need larger heavier wheels for some specific reason, then it's inescapable. If you are getting the bigger tires and wheels just for looks, then that's a lot of sacrifice.

Here's a crazy complicated calculator if you want to quantify the effect on acceleration:

 

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I have a few question and hope you guys can help me.

I got a 2020 Outback premium with the 2.5L engine

I was ready to pull the trigger on wheels and tires.

I'm looking to replace the originals tires for Wildpeak A/t Trail 245/65/17 and Method 502 17x8 Wheels. (The combined weight is aprox. 63 lbs)

Then I read in the forum some guys saying that the 2.5 L engine is not enough to move the weight of this tires and wheels also that the MPG will be horrible, loosing more that 5 MPG. and I got really scare.

I really would like to hear some of your opinion.

I'm not that worried for the loosing MPG but I am very worry to kill the power of the 2.5 and the handling of the car. It's that bad??

Thanks a lot
Yep, it is that bad. I would like to emphasize everything that SilverOnyx has explained in his excellent post #95 above. Folks get hung up on the question "Will it fit without rubbing if I don't get a lift?" but to me, this issue of the unsprung weight is a much bigger deal, and once CrossCheck and SilverOnyx helped me understand, it made my choice much easier. Reading Wes Siler's article on Subaru Mods in Outside magazine was also very useful. Wes points out that the Wildpeak A/T Trail was purpose-designed from the ground up for the Toyota RAV4- basically custom tailored for our Outbacks in the OEM size. Why would we go out of our way to mess with that? That being said, some of our folks do like the 235s, notably Fattcoffee (235/60-18 on stock wheels) and taconugget (235/65-17 on MR 501s). Me, I have the 225/65-17s(30#) on MR 501(23.8#) and figure I saved at least 8 pounds per corner over my first choice, 235(35#) on LPAventure LP-1(27#) or MR 502(24.3#). That's got to count for something.
To be frank, I still dream fondly of how nicely those 235s would fill out my wheel wells, but I'd be really nervous about those 245 numbers.
 

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Great info guys thanks a lot. After reading all this I may change my plans.

The main reason I got into the outback is to use it for Overlanding in my free time and a mild off roading.

So A/T tires are a must and as the Falken 245/65/17 weight 38 lbs, If I go to 235s which weight 35 lbs so I will be taking 3 Lbs out of the equation. My question is 3 lbs will make a huge difference in handling??

The other option I'm looking is a lighter wheel than the MR 501 (23.8 Lbs) but need to be strong for off roading. Any sugestion???
 

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Great info guys thanks a lot. After reading all this I may change my plans.

The main reason I got into the outback is to use it for Overlanding in my free time and a mild off roading.

So A/T tires are a must and as the Falken 245/65/17 weight 38 lbs, If I go to 235s which weight 35 lbs so I will be taking 3 Lbs out of the equation. My question is 3 lbs will make a huge difference in handling??

The other option I'm looking is a lighter wheel than the MR 501 (23.8 Lbs) but need to be strong for off roading. Any sugestion???
The answer for you there may lie in the MR 503- it is made with a different technique- flow forming ( which I frankly don't understand), reportedly both lighter and stronger. The good news is that member markinho got these . The bad news is that they are also more expensive, 321 vs 257. You might want to look up his post and pics (#2099 in "Tires and wheels that are proven to fit"). If you contact him, I'd be keen to get an update on how he likes them.
 

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The answer for you there may lie in the MR 503
Well this is a great news. I check the weight of the MR503 on Tire Rack and is 16.5 Lbs. that's a huge difference of 11.3 lbs compared with the MR502

The difference between the Falkens 225 and 245/65/17 is 8 lbs so if I go with the setup of MR503 + the 245 This is 54.5 lbs, that's 3 Lbs lighter than running 225 + MR502

I even believe that I will provably be lighter that the originals tires setup from the dealer. I should be good right?

Do am I right? or I'm missing something
 

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Well this is a great news. I check the weight of the MR503 on Tire Rack and is 16.5 Lbs. that's a huge difference of 11.3 lbs compared with the MR502

The difference between the Falkens 225 and 245/65/17 is 8 lbs so if I go with the setup of MR503 + the 245 This is 54.5 lbs, that's 3 Lbs lighter than running 225 + MR502

I even believe that I will provably be lighter that the originals tires setup from the dealer. I should be good right?

Do am I right? or I'm missing something
There can be some variation of tire spec numbers between various tire websites so I I took the liberty of contacting Method directly, which has been very responsive. Yep, the weight of your new rims would be 16.5 pounds! Did you have a chance to contact member markinho? If he likes them I think you're golden. As far as the tires, if I remember right he has the 235s, so that would be another step forward in verifying your fitment. Frankly, I think that 235/65-17 WP on MR503 Wildpeaks may be the ideal choice for you. Remember that one of the reasons the 235 weighs more is the extra plies (6 vs 4); it is actually rated higher than the 245- 108H vs 107H- so you're getting a good sturdy tire. I'm still leery of size 245; for reassurance on the issue of fitment and potential rubbing you could contact the Discount Tire team which assists forum members. If you scroll down on the top of page "forums" tab they have a listing under "vendors". Very helpful and professional advice, and of course no pressure or obligation.
 
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