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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So the update...

Welcome to engine #2 (#3 if you count the factory one)!

After a YEAR of coolant disappearing, the stealership is putting in another engine. (We were going through 2 liters of coolant every month and a half, and the dealer couldn't find the problem.) They previously replaced the original engine due to oil consumption...

The symptoms were odd: No cold air out of the A/C, or the heater would blow cold air.

First, we were told that we were low on freon.

Second we were told we were low on freon, but there is nothing we can find wrong with the car. Just before the gave the car back to us, they notice it was low on coolant! (Don't worry about the coolant, even though you should never lose coolant.)

They refused to put UV dye in the coolant to look for leaks. They indicated that none of their checks found anything wrong. I told them to pull the plugs and look for the steamed ones, then pull the head on that side and look for the head gasket issue. Of course, they refused.

Third time's a charm, or at least less of a blood pressure issue: I took the car back, gave them a stern "This needs to be fixed," with the implied 'Or else...' Turns out the regional troubleshooter (brass hat?) was in the area and told them to do what I asked them to do.

The funny thing is that the dealer was ignoring the issue even though I had:

- Put UV Dye in the coolant reservoir and projected that it would take two months to lose a few liters of coolant. (BINGO, btw).

- Sent the oil out to Blackstone Labs after ~1500 miles (the oil that they changed without my permission last time); It came back with trace amounts of coolant in it at 1500 miles.

-Drained the oil and used a laboratory collection container: Almost EXACTLY 6 QTs of oil. So, if I had any doubts before, the dealer has been absolutely overfilling the FB25 engines by 1 QT - on purpose. (I would even say fraudulently.)

The ONLY reason the car is being fixed is that the brass hat happened to be at the dealer for another reason. ...and he told them to replace the engine when he noticed the amount of coolant damage. Otherwise, it would have been another waste of time for a dealer that has no interest in integrity.

Fitzgerald's Subaru in Gaithersburg, MD

If you have an oil consumption test issue: note that they are putting 6 qts of oil in the engines to prevent failing the test. It appears they don't want replace engines....

Oh, and as a followup: Subaru of America does not care and will not hold a dealership accountable for doing bad work OR, more to the point, for refusing to properly diagnose a car. Andrew Bowden from Subaru has my total contempt for refusing to get Fitzgerald's to properly diagnose the magically disappearing coolant / head gasket issue.
 

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So why do you continue to keep this car? If it were mine it would have been gone a long, long time ago. Life is way too short to be frustrated by a machine.
 

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Have you contacted your state's Attorney General's office to report this particular dealership's behavior in your case? If I believed they were perpetrating fraud with me, I certainly would.
 

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If you have an oil consumption test issue: note that they are putting 6 qts of oil in the engines to prevent failing the test. It appears they don't want replace engines.... [/QUOTE said:
Glad you speak for every dealer out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Glad you speak for every dealer out there.
If a dealership puts 6 qts on oil in your FB25 Outback... they are doing it for a reason... and I doubt its legitimate.

The FB25 is supposed to only take 5.1 QTs of oil with a filter change. Period.

So yeah, I'm speaking for any dealer that overfills your car with oil, as they are almost certainly doing it to skew oil consumption reporting, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So why do you continue to keep this car? If it were mine it would have been gone a long, long time ago. Life is way too short to be frustrated by a machine.
You've a fair point... but the car has a gold 6 year, 100000 miles warranty until October 2018. I just can't see letting them NOT fix the car and make it right.

Plus, I did attempt to trade the car in at 3 dealers, and EVERY one of them undercut the trade in value by at $1500.00 (I'm talking about the black book value on a 2013 in flawless condition with 45k on it). The lowest trade is was from the dealership we've been dealing with, who claimed they did not look up the service records. However, a buddy that works for a different division told me that they absolutely looked up it's maint record.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Have you contacted your state's Attorney General's office to report this particular dealership's behavior in your case? If I believed they were perpetrating fraud with me, I certainly would.
Actually, yes. That is in the works. I'm letting the car be fixed, and then I may go for the jugular. (To be honest, I just want the car fixed properly.)

I've had the oil drained out of the car and videoed by three separate master mechanics. Everyone one of them has noted the 6 qts of oil that's been put in the car.

I've also done it myself two times.... without fail they purposely overfill it. I've even confronted them, and they tell me that they don't do that. What horse poop... unbelievable.

I've come to realize that the wrencher that originally looked at the car when we had the A/C symptoms claimed the freon was low, but had actually topped off the low coolant and put in Cooling System Conditioner. Most likely hoping that the small leak in the head gasket would seal. Honestly, they haven't been straight with us the entire time from the oil burning / the consumption tests / the overfilling the car with an extra QT of oil / the issue with the A/C not working / the car burning coolant / the refusal to put UV dye in the various systems to find the supposed leaks.

Fitzgerald Subaru in Gaithersburg, MD
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

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I think that list is somewhat skewed. By brand expectations.

Audi
Jaguar
Rover
Volvo

These are all $60K cars or more. The expectation level of the buyers is for VERY good quality. They are more critical due to their value structure.

Jeep...well we get it
Fiat...well Jeep and Fiat are exchanging bad habits and poor build quality.

Mazda...surprised me.

Which brings me to Subaru. This brand grew so fast they had to change their name. It was a sad day when 6-Star cars were no longer Fugi Heavy Ind. There has been a massive influx of buyers, who are not necessarily repeat Gen1 and Gen2 buyers. Folks with different expectations regarding tech, fit and finish...things like that.

As far as this oil consumption thing. Look, we all need to check our oil. That means the drivers. The oil change and "overfilling" , look a horizontal motor takes a bit for the oil to drain into the pan. Longer than you think. Change your own oil and stop at 4 1/2 qts and then monitor the dipstick as you try to get it right. It will give you fits.

If the dealer tech is doing the same. It's gonna get overfilled by at least 1/2 qt every single time. If they are filling to "full", by the time it all drains in...it's overfilled.

I said it many times over...Subaru CAN'T have customers waiting for pre-sold cars, busting sales records...and NOT have product and product support problems down the line. That's just simple business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Traildogck:

I don't entirely disagree with you. They've had explosive growth, and there are going to be growing pains. I got that link from this website on the right side, and I was a little surprised.

I actually bought a 2017 3.6R Outback to replace my loaded 2013 3.5R OB. The issue here is one of customer service, both at the dealer level and, most certainly, at Subaru Corporate. In our case I gave them detailed and specific technical information, and they refused to have the regional troubleshooter check the car out. That sort of growing pain is not acceptable.

Where you and I completely disagree is with the oil overfilling:

When I quickly drain the oil from my car when hot, I get 5.8QTs out of the engine. I get the remaining .1-.2QTs by letting it sit for 30 minutes. We have literally used the scientific method to examine this.

More importantly, if you suspicion of rapid oil change is being used for vehicles that are undergoing an Oil Consumption Test, it's a serious issue. In our case, the dealer claims that they literally put in 5.1QTs of oil using 1QT oil containers. Which is obviously not the case, or the car would simply not be overfilled. They also refused to send Subaru the completed consumption test form where it documents the inital level and the final level. That's actually why the engine was replaced: We gave him the pictures of the start (where the oil level is 1.5 inches above the top hole) and finish of the consumption test (where the oil level is now at the full mark - .9QT in 1200 miles)

Yeah, we all should check our oil level, but by the same token the car shouldn't even come close to being 3QTs low in 3000 miles. No engine with 19,000 miles should be 60% low on oil at 3000 miles, and you really shouldn't have ANY expectation of the need to check the oil level.
 

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I would agree the deal support network blows. I love my local parts department, but not the service. No way.

I also would agree there is NO WAY they fill the oil with qts at a time. It's a pump with a meter at best. The recycling of those qt containers would be a full time job for a shop monkey.

I think the deals are sloppy, and they hedge on overfilling to "protect" everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would agree the deal support network blows. I love my local parts department, but not the service. No way.

I also would agree there is NO WAY they fill the oil with qts at a time. It's a pump with a meter at best. The recycling of those qt containers would be a full time job for a shop monkey.

I think the deals are sloppy, and they hedge on overfilling to "protect" everyone.
I swear...

So, we got the car back today and was met by the Service Manager and the mechanic.

He brought up the 6 QTs of oil issue, and I told him flat out that in the last three oil changes I got between 5.9-6.0 QTs out of the engine.

He said he was going to talk to the shop foreman about it. I pointed out that this was going on during the oil consumption tests, and it looks a lot like fraud.

Traildogck:

I then spoke with the mechanic, who was outside checking the oil. He pulls the dipstick out, and gets 1/4 inch above the full mark.

So, this is a new engine. Literally. It didn't have any oil in it. There is a 1/2 inch above the full mark, which prior tinkering tells. E they put 5.5QTs of oil in the car.

If they have not been letting the car sit for 15 minutes, you may be right... rushing to get the job done and putting 5.5QTs in would be awfully close to 6QTs.
 
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