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^^ I concur. Adding water to the cells a couple of times per year as needed keeps these batteries alive for several more years longer than they last if you ignore them. I like batteries made by Johnson Controls. With routine care they tend to last me for at least 8 years.
 

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^^ I concur. Adding water to the cells a couple of times per year as needed keeps these batteries alive for several more years longer than they last if you ignore them. I like batteries made by Johnson Controls. With routine care they tend to last me for at least 8 years.
Johnson Controls ruined the Opnima brand when they sent the jobs to Mexico.
They were just sold to a company in Canada last week so it's hard to tell what will happen to the brand.
As for flooded cell and maintenance,thats all good if you're into that.
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

AGM has very low internal resistance, is capable to deliver high currents on demand and offers a relatively long service life, even when deep cycled. AGM is maintenance free, provides good electrical reliability and is lighter than the flooded lead acid type. While regular lead acid batteries need a topping charge every six months to prevent the buildup of sulfation, AGM batteries are less prone to sulfation and can sit in storage for longer before a charge becomes necessary. The battery stands up well to low temperatures and has a low self-discharge.

The World According to Garp awaits
 

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https://www.batterysystems.net/flooded-vs-agm-batteries/
I guess I can Parrot too
There are four, distinct, technical advantages of an absorbed glass-mat battery versus a flooded lead-acid battery:
1. AGM batteries do not show terminal corrosion. Without terminal corrosion the battery needs less lifetime maintenance.
2. The AGM battery neither produces nor expels hydrogen or oxygen gases like the flooded lead-acid battery does. Without these external gasses escaping during charging and discharging, electrolyte and water loss is avoided.
3. When comparing batteries in the same group size, AGM’s permit additional plate surface area. An increased plate surface area directly correlates to higher ratings in cold cranking amps (CCA) and reserve capacity (RC).
4. An AGM battery has a lower internal resistance than a flooded lead-acid battery. This allows faster recharge and a slower discharge.
 

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My less than two year old Costco Interstate Group 2 just pooped shows 0 charge after sitting for two days. Towed a trailer on Thursday and just got back from Utah with real cold 7 degree and less starts. Now in CA and it wont start in 58 degrees. I wonder if the prorated battery will be the same turd. No light left on so I don't know how it failed so quickly and completely.

Could have been a faulty door sensor, but that thing only faults below about 27 degrees. It is the driver side and it will read open when it is closed at colder than freezing temps. I will probably just add some material below the sensor button cover to make it depress further.
 

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So Costco swapped the Group 25 Fitment 6 that died out of the blue this morning. No clue why. I bought the battery on 1/18/17 so it did not make two years.

The OEM battery was 490 CCA I think. The Costco Interstate I replaced it with on 1/18/17 was 640 CCA. The new Costco Interstate I swapped the dead one for today on 1/14/19 is rated at 550 CCA with the same 100 min reserve. I wonder if the battery changed or just the label? Going to test it and put it on a battery tender to bring it to full charge before I pop it under the hood.

Not sure why it failed, I had no issues, hopefully mice or rats didn't chew into some wires and cause a parasitic drain or fault.
 

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Most of what Ravenworks has told you in the posts above is true. But here's the rest of the story. I'm not interested in starting a Range War here, but a good engineering-based rebuttal is sometimes worth hearing.

My 2014 Outback came with a rather pedestrian grade Subaru OEM spec BCI Group 25 flooded cell battery rated at 490 CCA and an estimated reserve capacity of around 80-90 minute, made in the USA by Johnson Controls. If you go back to Subaru for a replacement you'll come away with something only marginally better. Assuming that you don’t have a vehicle with an excessive parasitic draw or operate in a daily drive cycle that doesn’t adequately recharge, you can probably expect 3-4 decent years of use from the OEM grade battery based on reports by others. Make sure it stays charged, top off the water in the cells with distilled every few months, etc.

But it's a bit underpowered for the application, IMHO. My H4 starts slow at around zero 'F, but it never failed me. I ran it for just over 3.5 years until I decided to pre-emptively swap it out. Should I go for the same size? That would have worked, but the battery tray and cable length allow for some creativity. Why not go larger? Stay with a conventional flooded cell or go with a different construction?

Johnson Controls, like every manufacture, builds products to specs. My aftermarket personal choice by Johnson (used in various family vehicles) is the Walmart Everstart Maxx. This and similar ‘better grade’ flooded cell aftermarket batteries can deliver 700 CCA and 130 minute reserve or better in the 24 size. They are relatively inexpensive (often sub $100), offer long life, solidly warranted, easy no-hassle replacements should you need one and likely a store wherever you go open extended hours.

So what about an AGM battery as suggested above? It’s still a lead-acid battery, but with a modified construction. Yes, they are generally a better product, but you need to understand that they are not a direct 100% substitute.

The charging curves for these two types of battery are a bit different, and it’s generally recommended that the applied voltage be reduced when case temperature rises beyond a certain value to avoid bubbling the trapped electrolyte. For this reason, many vehicles that come from the factory with an AGM battery isolate it from direct engine bay heat. If the battery is subjected to excessive heat the alternator and charging circuit are likely modified by employing temperature feedback. In other words, the placement within the vehicle and the charging system is optimized for this battery.

Does our generation Outback have these features? Looking at the schematics I don't see a high level of sophistication. And if not, you might not derive the full benefit from your investment. I’m not stating that it will die a very early death, but it will likely die earlier than it would have if it was in a vehicle properly designed for it. In my view if you are willing to pay 2-3x more for an AGM, you probably want more than a year or two of extended life. Otherwise, I view it as a questionable investment. I don't go for hype. 40 years of Development Engineering (including automotive projects) has taught me better.

Sure, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of AGM batteries lasting for years. I've had conventional Johnson batteries that lasted that long too. Every product has a normal distribution curve. I don't think the curves offset all that far when you don't optimize the conditions that an AGM battery calls for.

My suggestion? Save the additional bucks and invest it in a good charger/conditioner. I top off with Distilled water occasionally and use a NOCO Genius G3500 every few months to ensure a full charge.

Each of our cars has both a NOCO Boost GB40 jump pack under the driver’s seat for self service operation and conventional jumper cables as a backup should assistance ever be needed.

And yes, I will replace a battery proactively when I don’t like how it’s starting and use of the ‘battery fix’ feature (sulfation breaker) doesn’t improve its performance.

Rebuttal time.....
 

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Most of what Ravenworks has told you in the posts above is true. But here's the rest of the story. I'm not interested in starting a Range War here, but a good engineering-based rebuttal is sometimes worth hearing.

My 2014 Outback came with a rather pedestrian grade Subaru OEM spec BCI Group 25 flooded cell battery rated at 490 CCA and an estimated reserve capacity of around 80-90 minute, made in the USA by Johnson Controls. If you go back to Subaru for a replacement you'll come away with something only marginally better. Assuming that you don’t have a vehicle with an excessive parasitic draw or operate in a daily drive cycle that doesn’t adequately recharge, you can probably expect 3-4 decent years of use from the OEM grade battery based on reports by others. Make sure it stays charged, top off the water in the cells with distilled every few months, etc.

But it's a bit underpowered for the application, IMHO. My H4 starts slow at around zero 'F, but it never failed me. I ran it for just over 3.5 years until I decided to pre-emptively swap it out. Should I go for the same size? That would have worked, but the battery tray and cable length allow for some creativity. Why not go larger? Stay with a conventional flooded cell or go with a different construction?

Johnson Controls, like every manufacture, builds products to specs. My aftermarket personal choice by Johnson (used in various family vehicles) is the Walmart Everstart Maxx. This and similar ‘better grade’ flooded cell aftermarket batteries can deliver 700 CCA and 130 minute reserve or better in the 24 size. They are relatively inexpensive (often sub $100), offer long life, solidly warranted, easy no-hassle replacements should you need one and likely a store wherever you go open extended hours.

So what about an AGM battery as suggested above? It’s still a lead-acid battery, but with a modified construction. Yes, they are generally a better product, but you need to understand that they are not a direct 100% substitute.

The charging curves for these two types of battery are a bit different, and it’s generally recommended that the applied voltage be reduced when case temperature rises beyond a certain value to avoid bubbling the trapped electrolyte. For this reason, many vehicles that come from the factory with an AGM battery isolate it from direct engine bay heat. If the battery is subjected to excessive heat the alternator and charging circuit are likely modified by employing temperature feedback. In other words, the placement within the vehicle and the charging system is optimized for this battery.

Does our generation Outback have these features? Looking at the schematics I don't see a high level of sophistication. And if not, you might not derive the full benefit from your investment. I’m not stating that it will die a very early death, but it will likely die earlier than it would have if it was in a vehicle properly designed for it. In my view if you are willing to pay 2-3x more for an AGM, you probably want more than a year or two of extended life. Otherwise, I view it as a questionable investment. I don't go for hype. 40 years of Development Engineering (including automotive projects) has taught me better.

Sure, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of AGM batteries lasting for years. I've had conventional Johnson batteries that lasted that long too. Every product has a normal distribution curve. I don't think the curves offset all that far when you don't optimize the conditions that an AGM battery calls for.

My suggestion? Save the additional bucks and invest it in a good charger/conditioner. I top off with Distilled water occasionally and use a NOCO Genius G3500 every few months to ensure a full charge.

Each of our cars has both a NOCO Boost GB40 jump pack under the driver’s seat for self service operation and conventional jumper cables as a backup should assistance ever be needed.

And yes, I will replace a battery proactively when I don’t like how it’s starting and use of the ‘battery fix’ feature (sulfation breaker) doesn’t improve its performance.

Rebuttal time.....
No rebuttal to your great infomation.

With regards to the change in specs on the Costco Interstate I just purchased. I wonder if the decided to put less plates area in the same size due to sulfation and allowing the silt to collect in more open space at the bottom? Perhaps they 800 CA 640 CCA batteries were failing due to lack of free space for the electrolytes and silt? Or perhaps they changed the Group 25 plate volume to just save money? FWIW the car turned over more smoothly than it had been prior to the immediate and total failure yesterday. I would love to know what caused a two year old battery to fail catastrophically? I read somewhere that lead plates to tightly packed with no space below them (to small a casing) can lead to premature failure.
 

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Unfortunately, there is just no way to tell. A move from 640 CCA to 550 CCA is pretty substantial.

The old Costco Kirkland batteries were reportedly made by Johnson Controls and were usually spec'ed and rated pretty highly. The current Costco 'supplier' is Interstate. According to Wikipedia, Interstate could be described as a distributor of relabeled products. In other words, the battery in an Interstate wrapper could be made by any of several manufacturers, and produced to varying specifications. If true, the battery you bought two years ago may have nothing in common with the unit you bought yesterday, other than the sticker on top. Costco might have cut what they were willing to pay, and Interstate went to the next lower bidder. Or Interstate dropped one of their suppliers for some reason. We can only guess.

If you had used a battery hydrometer to check each cell (specific gravity can be related to the state of charge) you could at least know if the failure was a single cell or a total battery discharge. But you still won't know why without a professional level of failure analysis.
 

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I ended up with the EverStart Maxx 24 too. 2012 model, wife's daily driver. It was starting to get the tell-tale signs of a weak battery - slow crank. I put my Noco battery load tester to use, and sure enough, applying load it was solidly in the yellow zone for a ~500CCA battery (490 rounded up). So 5 years and 38k miles on the stock battery. Not great, also not horrible.

I got rid of the sleeve that came with the stock battery, it doesn't seem to do much - not significant enough to have any insulating properties.

So far, so good with the new battery. I feel a lot better about her having the extra oomph to start on cold days. The stock battery is surprisingly small for a "rugged winter vehicle" with the "cold weather package". Heck, my Corolla has a better stock battery :)
Did a load test today - about 2 years later. Not great but not awful... scored in the yellow zone (weak) for 800CCA and just into green zone (acceptable) for 600 CCA. I decided to pop off the cell caps to check electrolyte levels. Four of the cells were perfect, but two were slightly low. I topped off the low ones with distilled water and put the battery on a trickle charger overnight. I'll do a load test again soon to see if the top-off and trickle charging improved it.
 

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Did a load test today - about 2 years later. Not great but not awful... scored in the yellow zone (weak) for 800CCA and just into green zone (acceptable) for 600 CCA. I decided to pop off the cell caps to check electrolyte levels. Four of the cells were perfect, but two were slightly low. I topped off the low ones with distilled water and put the battery on a trickle charger overnight. I'll do a load test again soon to see if the top-off and trickle charging improved it.
After the top-off and an overnight trickle charge I did another load test. It scored much better now, just slightly below the green zone for an 800 CCA battery. Glad I caught the electrolyte level before it got down below the lead plates.
 

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To add a data point to this thread. I put a Everstart Maxx group 27 battery on my wife's 2011 Outback the other day. I had to trim the ends off the plastic tray and discard the battery cover/case. Everything else works just fine.
Her battery went dead and the local walmart did not have any group 35 or 24 batteries in stock. The group 27 fit with no room to spare. It needs to slide under the front radiator support beam and nearly butts up to the fuse box on the other end. Other dimensions are the same, so the hold down bracket fits just fine. It's way bigger than needed on this car, 810CCA (1000 at 32F), 140 minute reserve. I would have gotten the group 24 if they had one available.
 

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Well my battery took a crap today. Replaced it with another 65 series.



I got a jump to get home, no issues. But after battery replacement my ABS/Traction Control lights are on, along with a flashing Brake light. Any idea why?
 

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Perhaps your new battery has been sitting on the store shelf for several months (or longer) and needs to be charged up again. What month/year does the factory sticker show?
 

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OK got my issues figured out. This "low/loss of voltage" triggered three codes.

C0073 Lateral G sensor output

C0071 Steering angle sensor output

C0074 Master cylinder pressure sensor output

My snap on scanner was able to clear/re-program/calibrate the first two values. This cleared the first two codes and killed the ABS light. Also restored my cruise control function.

Traction control, and flashing brake lights remained.

After much research many with the same issues were told they had to replace the ABS/Brake module assembly, do a flush bleed, and a re-flash. This is not the case. A master cylinder pressure reset can be done!

This service bulletin covers the situation 100%
https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/91643/065880?fbclid=IwAR3ArulRzodrdgZDUTRAz8-wqmJJ4TS7FBVqnuER-2uh_Q1UTLBJJF86p44

Seems that the reset is in a "hidden menu" for some reason. So this would be the first try if you have code
C0074 vs replacing the ABS unit. 1500-2k for the dealer to do.

I was able to use an Autel scanner to do the "zero setting mode of pressure sensor" no problem. All lights off and no more issues.
 

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My mediocre 6.5 year-old factory battery was dead in the driveway this morning. I did some online searching and found a fairly good deal (25% off online orders) on a 25-series Champion AGM battery at Pep Boys. It comes with a 4-year free replacement warranty. The local store does not have one in stock but they tell me it should be there late today or first thing tomorrow morning. We shall see.
 

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New battery arrived yesterday afternoon. Picked it up, took it home and installed it in about five minutes because it was a perfect fit. All is well again.
 

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If it's slow cranking, the battery may or may not be the sole cause. I swapped mine three years ago now, it cranked really slow in cold weather, slow enough to hear it sort of spin up when the engine caught on those cold mornings. Replaced the battery with an Optima, adding 225 or so CCA to the equation....still cranked a bit slow. After tiring of the overnight slow crank, replaced the starter at my brother's urging, rather than simply a clean/re-grease. Holy Cow, the new starter cranks faster in near zero temps than the old one did on a 70 degree day...best $115 I ever spent. (New, not a reman. from DB Electric). Should have broken down and did that two years earlier.

I still have the original Johnson Controls battery in my shed, and just for kicks I charge it up and will toss on the battery load tester. Still indicates good, with just a few amps short of the rated capacity. - That's just about an eight year old battery, and she still tests good.
 
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