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I ran across this;

I was a service advisor at subaru. the easiest way to permanently disable the start/stop system without any warning lights is to have a genuine towbar fitted, and dig out the magnet from the inside of the 7 pin plug. this way a signal is being sent to the car saying you might be towing, which disables the auto start stop system without any warning lights or other symptoms. I suspect it will probably work the same on other models. Your welcome everyone.
555
which indicates there could be a 'simple' fix for disabling stop-start by 'hacking' the trailer tow wiring harness.
 

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I am not a guru but why bother?

The start stop I've driven are pretty seamless.
Yesterday I drove 52 miles one way to court and the first 1/3 was normal traffic but the last part was bumper to bumper for 30+ miles. Took me nearly 2:30 hours and that doesn't include the return trip.

Just an educated guess but I bet I did the start stop thing well over 100 times, one way, not including stoplights.

Carl posted the costs of the starter and battery for some current model and IIRC, it was close to $800, if not more, for the starter and battery for the start stop components.

I much prefer to keep the engine running, AC working in 100 stop trips not including the high heat too.

I'm fearful that replacing the expensive battery and starter, just like walnut blasting of the valves, is going to be considered a wear and tear/maintenance item, all in the name of mpg, emissions and efficiency.
 

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Yesterday I drove 52 miles one way to court and the first 1/3 was normal traffic but the last part was bumper to bumper for 30+ miles. Took me nearly 2:30 hours and that doesn't include the return trip.

Just an educated guess but I bet I did the start stop thing well over 100 times, one way, not including stoplights.

Carl posted the costs of the starter and battery for some current model and IIRC, it was close to $800, if not more, for the starter and battery for the start stop components.

I much prefer to keep the engine running, AC working in 100 stop trips not including the high heat too.

I'm fearful that replacing the expensive battery and starter, just like walnut blasting of the valves, is going to be considered a wear and tear/maintenance item, all in the name of mpg, emissions and efficiency.
Didn't he also say that the system lifespan is measured in decades for the average driver?

I will need to see it failing before I dig in. Although yeah I will probably write a guide eventually. I have like two dozen to sort through for the VDC Baja.
 

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There might be a simple defeat via disconnecting the hood switch.

My dad's 16 Rio5 had stop/start. There was a button to disable after start-up, but didn't want to press it every time.

Unplugging the hood switch would keep it from stopping (assuming someone was under the hood working).

Not sure if Subaru has a "smart" switch or uses the same switch for the remote-start, but it might be worth looking into.
 

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My MY'17 Outback does not have the Stop/Start feature so I have not tried this myself, but I know it works on other car makes. When you come to a stop, put it in Manual mode. I believe this should disable the Stop/Start. I appreciate someone trying this on an Outback and letting me know if this is true for a Subaru as well. Thanks
 

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Just an educated guess but I bet I did the start stop thing well over 100 times, one way, not including stoplights.

Carl posted the costs of the starter and battery for some current model and IIRC, it was close to $800, if not more, for the starter and battery for the start stop components.

I much prefer to keep the engine running, AC working in 100 stop trips not including the high heat too.

I'm fearful that replacing the expensive battery and starter, just like walnut blasting of the valves, is going to be considered a wear and tear/maintenance item, all in the name of mpg, emissions and efficiency.
And 100 times starting over a single day is still 9 YEARS on the starter. 30 times per day is 27 years.

The starter by itself is about $475 - but a NORMAL starter is $425, so it's not that much more. The batteries are $400, but that's also because they're deep cycle hybrid type batteries, which are designed for about 10 years of life with continuous charge / discharge cycles.

Also keep in mind that the car is (supposed to be) monitoring the drain on the system. So if there's a high A/C or heater load, it'll keep the engine running if need be.

I go out in our Forester and I just don't even notice it when I'm driving. Car shuts itself off at a light, I take my foot off the brake, it starts and by the time my foot is on the gas, it's ready to go. I'm using the trip meter to see what it does over time - we haven't taken any trips yet, just in city and interstate driving in town (since it's 20 minutes at 60 mph to get from one side of town to the other), and it's showing since November we've saved almost a gallon of gas. So that says we'll probably save 3 gallons a year. Individually that's not much, but it fits in with the Subaru philosophy of being green as a company - because that's 450,000 gallons per year just from all the Foresters. Once Outbacks have it, you could say Subaru drivers are saving a million gallons of gas per year.
 

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Those are very interesting numbers worthy of checking into although I also use plastic straws and plastic bags so I'm not going nuts over the green stuff.

The start stop isn't so much about the benefits to an individual but rather as cumulative for all drivers to parlay that into barrels of crude saved.

If marketing said I'd save 10 gallons a year by having start stop I wouldn't consider it a selling point. Same with DI relative to maintenance costs likely to be incurred down the road.
 

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I think the jury may still be out as to savings - suppose the batteries are heavier and/or trickier to produce? are the starters heavier? that means not only is the car itself sacrificing some economy to haul them around, but so are trains/trucks/ships w'ever.

needs a true cradle-to-grave examination. Also throw in the added complexity of 'one more system to break', etc. Even people's habit of 'homeostasis' with fuel costs - it's why you see folks trade up and down in car size with fuel prices.
 

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And 100 times starting over a single day is still 9 YEARS on the starter. 30 times per day is 27 years.

The starter by itself is about $475 - but a NORMAL starter is $425, so it's not that much more. The batteries are $400, but that's also because they're deep cycle hybrid type batteries, which are designed for about 10 years of life with continuous charge / discharge cycles.

Also keep in mind that the car is (supposed to be) monitoring the drain on the system. So if there's a high A/C or heater load, it'll keep the engine running if need be.

I go out in our Forester and I just don't even notice it when I'm driving. Car shuts itself off at a light, I take my foot off the brake, it starts and by the time my foot is on the gas, it's ready to go. I'm using the trip meter to see what it does over time - we haven't taken any trips yet, just in city and interstate driving in town (since it's 20 minutes at 60 mph to get from one side of town to the other), and it's showing since November we've saved almost a gallon of gas. So that says we'll probably save 3 gallons a year. Individually that's not much, but it fits in with the Subaru philosophy of being green as a company - because that's 450,000 gallons per year just from all the Foresters. Once Outbacks have it, you could say Subaru drivers are saving a million gallons of gas per year.
I think this summarizes why I'm neutral on start stop.

The systems I've got experience with seems fine and well made.

The system saves 3 gallons a year.

Even at $10 a gallon I'm just not sure if the math makes sense.

Sort of the same opinion in the auto tailgate.
 

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I think this summarizes why I'm neutral on start stop.

The systems I've got experience with seems fine and well made.

The system saves 3 gallons a year.

Even at $10 a gallon I'm just not sure if the math makes sense.

Sort of the same opinion in the auto tailgate.

My informal rule of thumb when looking at a feature is whether it enhances, augments or amplifies my joy of driving. That feature can be safety, ES, sat nav or similar but when we start getting into the balance analysis of cost and benefit to me as the owner/driver, I'm not convinced that DI engines and start stop are meant for my driving pleasure or use as much as it satisfies a corporate policy mandated by government regs.


Starters don't last forever but Carl is sort of suggesting they do, at least by the number of years SOA says. No starter or any other car component of a daily driver lasts that long. They are only doing simulated testing and not real world so not I'm on board with my $10 savings triumphing over all else.
 

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it satisfies a corporate policy mandated by government regs.


Starters don't last forever but Carl is sort of suggesting they do, at least by the number of years SOA says. No starter or any other car component of a daily driver lasts that long. They are only doing simulated testing and not real world so not I'm on board with my $10 savings triumphing over all else.
You said it, I didn't.

Also, the testing on the starters is based upon what OTHER companies that have had start-stop for years have seen. So it's probably pretty accurate, with a 300,000 cycle lifespan. Some will die sooner, some will last longer. Realistically, I expect a lot of components in our cars nowadays will last much longer than ownership of the car itself - very few people keep the same car 20+ years.
 

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All I know is this: If I was driving with someone that shut off his engine at every stop sign or red light (and traffic jam) to save a few gallons of gas each year, I'd nominate him for the loony bin.
 

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All I know is this: If I was driving with someone that shut off his engine at every stop sign or red light (and traffic jam) to save a few gallons of gas each year, I'd nominate him for the loony bin.
I'm sure those new-fangled electric self-starters were welcomed with suspicion by some a century ago, too.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the overall practicality of start-stop systems. Are the relatively modest savings in fuel worth the added complexity and mechanical wear and tear involved? How long does the engine have to be shut off before the energy savings exceed the energy needed to restart it?

I do recognize that using a system designed to operate that way is one thing, and different from trying to simulate that by abusing a system that's not designed to operate that way by shutting it off then restarting it again after a few seconds again and again. I will admit that I usually shut the ignition off if I know I'll be waiting for several minutes, like when stopped for a train crossing.
 

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I have a question. If you are driving with Eyesight and the car stops by itself because the car in front stops, will the car use the Stop/Start "feature"? Also, if I stop the car by myself, not following another car for instance and I use the electronic parking brake (which I often do) will the stop/start activate?
 

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My experience with start/stop technology is only with my wife's Prius, where it's designed in as an integral part of the hybrid synergy system.

And more importantly, it bump starts the gas engine using the car's inertia, the 250 V traction motor, or some combination of the two. Can't say I've ever heard the gas engine's cranking motor operate, but I suppose there has to be one there if the traction batteries are at their minimum level (and note Toyota software limits the NiMH battery cycle to the 30-70% range, so there's most always sill some energy there at "minimum").

Regarding more conventional gas cars using this technology, the jury's out on that one as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid this technology, nor would I try to get something that had it. But in any case, it's probably going to be unavoidable at some point with any gas engine car.
 

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I'm sure those new-fangled electric self-starters were welcomed with suspicion by some a century ago, too.


.
Yes, they were welcomed by those who had their arm broken by a crank. I must admit that stop/start can give you a thrill wondering if your car will re-start while sitting in a 6 lane highway traffic jam.
 

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My Subaru does not have this feature, and I admit that a few years ago I was skeptical of start-stop systems. But I drove a friend's Audi Q5 recently and it is seamless. Similarly I had a Golf in Iceland last summer with the feature, and it was a stick shift. This was also seamless, as it also has a hill hold feature on the manual transmission. It literally took me 10 minutes in city traffic (Reykjavik) to get to the point where I didn't notice it anymore.

Road and Track would argue the system has benefits: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a22994303/automatic-start-stop-useful-fuel-savings/

The system is a secondary one to the regular starter and won't impact the main cold start system over the life of the car.

Europeans have been using start/stop for 20 years to reduce pollution in cities. The Golf is a fuel miser for sure, but given my Icelandic Golf was averaging 3.8L/100km (or about 61mpg) with the 1.5L TSI Engine in mixed driving, I would say the system saves fuel, at least on the city cycle.
 
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