Subaru Outback Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of September's Outback of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
2013 3.6r limited, 2013 2.5 pzev limited with SAP
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My wife has a 2013 2.5 limited pzev with SAP. At 63,000 miles on it we had the 60,000 mile service completed. At 65,000 miles on the highway on the way to flordia from ohio the cvt/front diff exploded. So we had the car towed back to wagners subaru. After a few days wagners called saying the cvt/front diff needed replaced because it was destroyed. So after alot of conversations they replaced the whole units.

A couple weeks ago we took it in to have the front diff fluid changed as i had already done the rear diff on hers and the front and rear on my 13 3.6r. A short time later wagners called saying yet again the cvt/front diff needed replaced yet again. THis time they said the seals between the cvt and front diff are failing allowing the fluids to mix. I'm perplexed as the car has less than 150,000 miles on it and its going to be its 3rd CVT/Front Diff.

So I've tried emailing Subaru of America Multiple times, I've Spent hours on hold and have yet to get ahold of anyone. So today i finally gave up and filed a complaint with the BBB against SOA and this issue.

Has anyone ever delt with the BBB and or SOA and their horrible CVT/ Front Diff ???????
 

·
Registered
2013 3.6R Limited
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
If your vehicle is approaching 150,000 miles I don't think the BBB is going to give you much sympathy even after two front differential replacements. I would continue to try to reach SOA by phone. It is not uncommon to have to wait on hold for 20 to 30 minutes to speak with almost any customer service department these days. But speaking with someone is almost always more productive than attempting to communicate via e-mail.
 

·
Registered
2018 VW Golf Sportwagen
Joined
·
96 Posts
I have contacted BBB Dispute Resolution against VW for a leaking Pano roof. It has taken about three months but tomorrow we go to an arbitration hearing. My request is VW buy back my car. If I win they are bound by the arbitration ruling and have to buy it back. If I lose there is no cost to me other than my time and I can still try lemon law it as I'm still under warranty.

To use the arbitration, you need to show some law broken by Subaru or negligence on their part. Here is the site:

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited
Joined
·
261 Posts
Why wasn't the first transmission covered under the 100k warranty? What do you mean exploded? That seems like a rare phenomenon.
 

·
Registered
2013 3.6r limited, 2013 2.5 pzev limited with SAP
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
They said it exploded, they said the front diff blew up in the housing. When they pulled the drain plugs pieces of the front diff came out! So the original was replaced with another unit. Now the replacement unit needs replaced because all the internal seals are failing. So 150,000 miles on a vehicle thats now going to have its 3rd cvt/front diff. 50,000 mile life on a cvt/front diff to me is so unacceptable and sound like its complete junk!
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited
Joined
·
261 Posts
I'm sorry you've been dealt a bad hand. TBH, those 2013 2.5 powertrains were complete junk. My wifes Forrester included.
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited w/ES
Joined
·
4,151 Posts
So, Subaru took care of you under warranty the first time? Transmissions can go at 150k on pretty much any vehicle. Hardly a reason to cry foul, IMO, this is the risk you must accept when owning a high mileage vehicle.
 

·
Registered
2020 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited 2.0 T AWD
Joined
·
597 Posts
Did the dealer use brand new CVT/DIFFs. Or used lower mileage or remanufactured parts? Did they offer any separate warranty for the parts themselves? These are question I would of asked or ask. And do you tow with your vehicle?
 

·
Registered
2012 Outback Ltd 3.6r
Joined
·
556 Posts
Interesting, as the '13/'14 GEN 4 models used the 'improved' 2nd generation CVT, which albeit was the smaller low-torque model. Most of the failures in the early CVTs usually fall into one of two categories, a bad solenoid in the valve-body, or torque converter issues. The CVT units themselves are pretty robust, compared to many competitors...we're talking about you Nissan/Jatco, which are junk imho.

With the original differential blowing apart like that, I'd suspect the fluid was low, it's a mechanical differential, without lockup/lsd, making those components fairly reliable, barring abuse or running dry. I'd be questioning if it was serviced right before the initial failure right after the 60k service, if perhaps they skipped checking/replacing that fluid, or maybe even drained it, but didn't put sufficient fluid (if any) back into the unit. - My CPO had supposedly had the 30k service done, and what I drained out was obviously the factory fill, and in need of replacement at both ends of the car.

This might be more a dealer issue than a SoA issue, just saying.
 

·
Registered
2013 3.6r limited, 2013 2.5 pzev limited with SAP
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
No we don't tow with the vehicle which is why the hitch is on my 3.6 lol. This is the average life of a cvt/front diff for a subaru? Your saying transmission can go 150k, i cant even get past an average of 50,000 on 3 of them! 150,000 miles 3front diffs=50,000 mile average, and you say dont cry foul?

They had replaced the fluids in both the cvt and front diff during the 60,000 mile service. When it was in a few weeks ago i asked them if they had in fact checked all the fluids when they put the replacement in and i was told yes. I asked if there were any leaks, I was told there were no leaks on the cvt/diff. I said if there's no leaks what is going on. Well the seals in between the units are failing allowing the fluids to mix. I asked about the 100.000 miles cvt warranty as well, I was told that only applied to the original unit in the car and that the replacement unit doesn't get covered under the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I said if its a unit thats going into the car and the miles are documented why would the unit not be covered for 100,000 especially since its replacing a failed unit already, no answer could be provided. I guess if one expects to replace a transmission ever few years i shouldn't complain.
 

·
Registered
2010 Outback 3.6R 2014 Legacy 2.5i
Joined
·
2,978 Posts
complain about what exactly? they fixed the car 2 times at no cost to you.

when I had my front diffferential serviced on my legacy the casting cracked. the replaced cvt at 40K no biggie
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited w/ES
Joined
·
4,151 Posts
Obviously three CVTs in 150k is highly unusual (if it weren't I'd say file all the complaints you like). Yours would appear to be a case of very bad luck, but I'd be more inclined to direct my frustration towards the dealer service department at this point, since I'd say the quality of their work is questionable at best.
 

·
Registered
2013 3.6r limited, 2013 2.5 pzev limited with SAP
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
They fixed the car once. We are having to pay for the 3rd replacement at a $4000.00. To have a car on whats going to be its 3rd cvt/front diff with 150,00 miles says to me theres an issue. I could see if the first went out at 100-150k and then needed replaced but ****, 150k and 3rd unit is going in. So I guess at 200k or so i should expect to put a 4th unit in the car?
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited w/ES
Joined
·
4,151 Posts
Your math is confusing the topic. Best I can tell, first CVT fails a few thousand miles after they service it. Second fails for a reason that's completely new to me (although I spend zero time in the Gen 4 subforum). So that's 2 in 150k. Meh. I'd run away from this dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
They fixed the car once. We are having to pay for the 3rd replacement at a $4000.00. To have a car on whats going to be its 3rd cvt/front diff with 150,00 miles says to me theres an issue. I could see if the first went out at 100-150k and then needed replaced but ****, 150k and 3rd unit is going in. So I guess at 200k or so i should expect to put a 4th unit in the car?
When its an actual issue, it's easy to find. When VW CR Diesel had HPFP coming apart, there was a thread with 1000's of posts, it was happening to 100's of owners.

If this was an 'issue' with outback, you'd see the same.

I generally defend dealers here, but I'm going to say as others have, betting it's a service issue. It's highly suspect it happens after they serviced it.
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Onyx
Joined
·
12,644 Posts
If it weren't a Subaru dealership (but they make mistakes too) it almost sounds like they drained the front diff and then filled the CVT with gear oil by using the wrong fill port.
 

·
Registered
2011 Outback 3.6R Premier w/206K miles.
Joined
·
90 Posts
They had replaced the fluids in both the cvt and front diff during the 60,000 mile service. When it was in a few weeks ago i asked them if they had in fact checked all the fluids when they put the replacement in and i was told yes. I asked if there were any leaks, I was told there were no leaks on the cvt/diff. I said if there's no leaks what is going on. Well the seals in between the units are failing allowing the fluids to mix. I asked about the 100.000 miles cvt warranty as well, I was told that only applied to the original unit in the car and that the replacement unit doesn't get covered under the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I said if its a unit thats going into the car and the miles are documented why would the unit not be covered for 100,000 especially since its replacing a failed unit already, no answer could be provided. I guess if one expects to replace a transmission ever few years i shouldn't complain.
It's been my observation when a component is replaced it receives the remainder of the original warranty or one specific to the component, whichever is longer. Using your CVT situation as an example:

CVT is covered under the 100K miles and therefore it was covered under warranty when replaced at 60K. This new CVT is warrantied until 100K miles (i.e. 40K miles on the new part). If you were to now replace the CVT it is no longer covered under the 100K mile warranty. However the new part will be warrantied by some warranty specific to the part, say 12 months / 12K miles (as an example).

Maybe that's the situation here?
 

·
Premium Member
‘22 Geezer Blue Wilderness
Joined
·
174 Posts
Just a question, and for science. When you replace your tires, do you replace all four, as required in Subaru documentation?

If you don't replace all four tires, do you shave the replacement tire(s)?

The difference will destroy your drivetrain. The tolerance is 1/4" total in diameter, or 1/32" difference in radius. Guaranteed to make a diff "explode," over time if those tires are mismatched like that.

I only ask because the timeframe is suspiciously close to common tire replacement intervals/overlaps.
 

·
Registered
2015 3.6R Limited w/ES
Joined
·
4,151 Posts
If I understand correctly, based on other discussions around here, uneven tire circumference (that 1/4" number is not for diameter) can eventually wear out the MPT clutch. This results in loss of power to the rear wheels, but not much else, some folks might never notice.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top