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Which model would you prefer?

  • Either is fine, go for it.

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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Until the Ascent reveal, I was pretty much set on getting a 2018 or 2019 Legacy 3.6R. I currently drive a 2011 Outback 2.5 Limited, and I'm growing a little frustrated at the lack of modern comforts as the rest of my family upgrades and I see things first-hand. There's nothing wrong with my Outback now, but I'm in a position where I can afford something a little sportier and newer, and want to take advantage of it while my car has a little bit of value left in it.

First, I knew I wanted a car with more power. To me, I think the 2.5 is underpowered, especially during acceleration. I know either the 2.4 Turbo or the 3.6 would help here. I also like doing my own maintenance. I know that the 2.5 is slightly easier to maintain with the top-mount filter, but I don't mind crawling under. I know the spark plugs are a beast on the H6. I'd plan on putting the Fumoto on the new one either way.

I also want the modern tech, like streaming bluetooth music, CarPlay, and EyeSight (primarily for Adaptive Cruise).

My expectation is that the 2.4T in the Ascent will trickle down into the top-tier Legacy and Outback, and maybe even the Forester going forward. I don't think this'll happen until 2020 when they do the refresh for the new generation, but it could happen in 2019. I've heard from multiple sources that Subie can't wait to drop the H6 because it's killing their CAFE rating for the economy mandates.

So, I know the EZ36D in the 3.6 is tried and true, and it's tuned for cruising. I like that it's a simpler machine being NA instead of Turbo, and it runs quieter, and I've found it's actually less expensive to run in terms of 87 octane vs 93 octane for the premiums in the turbo.

I don't know if the 2.4T in the Ascent will run 91(93) octane or be tuned for 87.

I also believe that the Turbo requires more frequent OCI's since Subaru used to always consider Turbos on the "Severe" schedule.

That being said, I also like the idea that the 2.4T reaches peak torque at 2k rpm, so you've instantly got the "go" you need. But, at higher RPM's and highway speeds, it would indeed be noisier than the 3.6 would be.

The way I see it:

3.6R

+2018, possibly 2019 has the EZ36D, which is essentially tried-and-true technology.
+NA engine, less complicated machine, one less part to break.
+Possibly longer OCI's. I run around 5k on my 2.5i now with M1HM.
+5w30 is the requirement for the 3.6R, which seems less likely to burn off compared to the 0w20 in the FB engines
+Cheaper to run with 87, assuming the Turbo requires 91(93). Premium fuel is about 50-60 cents more per gallon here.

-More oil for OCI
-Spark Plugs are a beast, and I would probably take it to a shop to do.
-Older frame design

2.4T
+2019 or possibly 2020 with refresh
+Global Platform
+Newest Features and Tech (Ventilated seats in Ascent, maybe they'll be in the Touring or Limited trims?)

-New Engines sometime have growing pains
-Turbo 4 cylinder gets a lot of stress
-No benefit to turbo at highway speeds
-Possibly requires Premium octane (91-93)
-Possibly needs a 3000 mile OCI instead of the 5k I run on my 2.5 NA / would run on my 3.6R NA


I love my Outback, but I'm looking for something a little sportier compared to this, but I do need more room than the WRX offers or I might consider that. I do have two kids in booster-style car seats in the back, and my wife has a third row SUV that is our family vacationmobile so I don't foresee ever using this for a major trip. It's for me, occasionally all four of us, but never packed to the gills. Essentially this is a commuter, but I want to have fun doing it, and don't really take advantage of the utility that the Outback offers.

Yes, I'll work on her getting an Ascent once her Honda Pilot is paid off. She has the same concerns as me about first MY vehicles.

Thoughts, criticisms? Thanks.
 

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I think its kind of a silly poll! You obviously know alot about the cars, so make your decision on what your gut tells you for your needs.
 

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I'd say go with the 3.6 because the Turbo you will have to put premium gas into it to get the correct gas mileage so you are spending more money in gas either because you are spending more in premium gas or loosing gas mileage per gallon causing more fill ups because you are using regular gas.
 

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I'd say go with the 3.6 because the Turbo you will have to put premium gas into it to get the correct gas mileage so you are spending more money in gas either because you are spending more in premium gas or loosing gas mileage per gallon causing more fill ups because you are using regular gas.
have you read ANYWHERE that the 2.4 turbo WILL require premium gas?

I am seeing some listings that it will run on US regular 87 AKI. including on subaru of japan's own corp site for the Ascent with the FA24 engine.

might make more the then stated #s if one puts 91-93 in.


(this is a copy off a PDF ).

Major Specifications of Ascent (US specs.) >
Body size(Overall length / width / height)4,998 x 1,930 x 1,819*1 mm(196.8 x 76.0 x 71.6*1 in.)
Wheelbase2,890 mm(113.8 in.)Minimum ground clearance220 mm(8.7 in.)
Engine2.4-liter Horizontally-Opposed four cylinder, DOHC,Direct injection turboFA24
engineDisplacement2,387ccBore and stroke94 x 86 mmMaximum output260hp / 5,600rpmMaximum torque277lb.-ft. / 2,000 - 4,800rpm
Fuel tank capacity 73 liter
Fuel type 87AKI
TransmissionHigh-torque Lineartronic*2DrivetrainSymmetrical AWD
Tire size245/60 R18, 245/50 R20Seating capacity7 / 8​
 

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My expectation is that the 2.4T in the Ascent will trickle down into the top-tier Legacy and Outback, and maybe even the Forester going forward. I don't think this'll happen until 2020 when they do the refresh for the new generation.
This is the key issue behind your plan. While I think it's inevitable that it will replace the 3.6R, there's no guarantee they'll do this in 2020.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is the key issue behind your plan. While I think it's inevitable that it will replace the 3.6R, there's no guarantee they'll do this in 2020.
Agreed. And that's the rub. I'd prefer to wait as long as possible to avoid double car payments (the Pilot was financed over 48 months and has about 2 years left to go).

My expectation is that it would go away in Model Year 2020 with the Gen7 Legacy and Gen6 Outbacks rolling out on the Global Platform. It COULD happen in MY 2019 since they're ramping up production of the 2.4T for the Ascent. They're going to need those Engines to go somewhere, unless they're creating a surplus of 10,000 engines to "hold"

It could also NOT happen in 2020, depending on what the roadmap is.

I contacted someone in Corporate today and they're reaching out to management. They're also trying to find out if it's tuned for 87 or 91(93).
 

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I think you will have to test them back to back.

and...

next year you and your wife might want a Ascent and something else.

maybe a sedan with a real trunk.
 

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have you read ANYWHERE that the 2.4 turbo WILL require premium gas?
Read, no, but one of the Subaru sales people when my wife and I started looking at the time we had mentioned we had just tested drove a crv turbo and didn't like it because slower off the stop...He commented that anything turbo should really be using premium gas...you can use regular but you're not going to get the proper gas mileage. Now he could be bsing but guy at work who is a car guy kind of agreed with it.
 

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I don't have any other info than what you guys have seen and posted, but I predict they'll debug this new engine with 2 years of Ascent production, and then it'll be the new "MOAR" option across the whole Legacy range starting in 2020.

The EZ36 debuted in the 2008 Tribeca, 2 model years before it was offered in the Outback; perhaps a precedent for this timing suggestion?
 

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Read, no, but one of the Subaru sales people when my wife and I started looking at the time we had mentioned we had just tested drove a crv turbo and didn't like it because slower off the stop...He commented that anything turbo should really be using premium gas...you can use regular but you're not going to get the proper gas mileage. Now he could be bsing but guy at work who is a car guy kind of agreed with it.
any CRV is slow off a stop,


most any traditional turbo is slow off a stop, even if you rev it with your left foot on the brake like a drag racer...

typically when a turbo races a equally matched big gas engine,
the big gas takes off faster and then the turbo passes it mid way down the drag track.
@traildogck can link one here with his cherry red turbo vs. a friend in a 3.6 subaru. (3.6 owner will get a raptor supercharger for christmas).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't have any other info than what you guys have seen and posted, but I predict they'll debug this new engine with 2 years of Ascent production, and then it'll be the new "MOAR" option across the whole Legacy range starting in 2020.

The EZ36 debuted in the 2008 Tribeca, 2 model years before it was offered in the Outback; perhaps a precedent for this timing suggestion?
That’s awesome. There’s a lot up in the air. Hopefully answers in the next few weeks as the auto shows start to hit.

Regarding Premium fuel.

And engine has to be tuned to take advantage of it. Otherwise it’s worthless.
 

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@Pilot1226 I am in the exact same boat as you. If I could have done my 2018 Outback lease all over again I would have gotten a 3.6 Limited Outback. Mind you I am perfectly satisfied with my 2.5 Premium with Eyesight but would have glady paid a little extra per month to get into the 3.6 Limited and get more of the feature content I would have liked to have had and of course that engine.

That being said, I am eagerly awaiting my opportunity to try out the new turbo engine in the Ascent. Ultimately I have decided that I will wait until MY2020 no matter what and if I don't like the next gen model enough to justify getting into one immediately I can always pick up a remaining MY2019 Limited 3.6. I would even consider getting a Touring model if Subaru gets their heads out of their arses and does more to distinguish the two trimlines.

I will tell you this also, my dealership has just received news on its next major allocation and we will be receiving multiple 50th Anniversary Subaru models to include 1 BRZ, 1 WRX, 2 Crosstreks, 2 Imprezas, 2 Outbacks, and 4 Legacys. No information has been released (to my knowledge) as to how any of those models will be packaged or colored.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@Pilot1226 I am in the exact same boat as you. If I could have done my 2018 Outback lease all over again I would have gotten a 3.6 Limited Outback. Mind you I am perfectly satisfied with my 2.5 Premium with Eyesight but would have glady paid a little extra per month to get into the 3.6 Limited and get more of the feature content I would have liked to have had and of course that engine.

That being said, I am eagerly awaiting my opportunity to try out the new turbo engine in the Ascent. Ultimately I have decided that I will wait until MY2020 no matter what and if I don't like the next gen model enough to justify getting into one immediately I can always pick up a remaining MY2019 Limited 3.6. I would even consider getting a Touring model if Subaru gets their heads out of their arses and does more to distinguish the two trimlines.

I will tell you this also, my dealership has just received news on its next major allocation and we will be receiving multiple 50th Anniversary Subaru models to include 1 BRZ, 1 WRX, 2 Crosstreks, 2 Imprezas, 2 Outbacks, and 4 Legacys. No information has been released (to my knowledge) as to how any of those models will be packaged or colored.
Agree about the Touring needing something special other than forcing me into Java Brown Leather and a steering wheel warmer.

The Touring on the Ascent has a ton of upgrades, most notably Ventilated Front Seats. That's big for me. The front camera I could see on a car that size, but I wouldn't need it on the Leg or the OB. Chrome trim is whatever for me, I prefer function over form.

That being said I cross posted this on the Legacy forums. Been pretty active there the last couple weeks leading up to the Ascent reveal. Someone suggested doing a Lease of the 2018 near the end of model year to "protect" myself from losing out on the 3.6 option, and if for some reason the new model on the global platform has some "life altering" things that I decide I can't live without, I can just end the lease and grab it.

I also think @rasterman makes a great point. God forbid there's any type of problems/unforeseen issues with the FA24, especially since it's potentially going to be run on 87, they can be contained to a single model of vehicle rather than spreading bad news across the fleet.

I'll post back here once I get an e-mail back from corporate. Fingers crossed some good news for the 6 to survive the executioner another year or two.

Though I think it would be unusual if they launched the 2020 MY Legacy/OB with the new generation refresh but with the 3.6R in it for the first year only, as that would then be two full years of testing as Rasterman was describing, and then year 2 they would drop the FA24 in it.

Someone had a rumor that they thought the FA20 would be moved to the Leg/OB, but I don't see it replacing the H6. I feel like Subie would have done it already if that was the case.

I also heard a great rumor, engineering wise, that the FA24 that the Ascent will have will feature Toyota's tech that incorporates both Port and Direct Injection into the design, so the whole carbon blowby on the back of the valves will be a non-issue. I really don't have to deal with Walnut Shell Blasting every 60k.

I mentioned something about the 50th anniversary editions and members were quick to point out that in the past for milestone anniversaries, Subaru just put a special badge on the rear of the vehicle.
 

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I mentioned something about the 50th anniversary editions and members were quick to point out that in the past for milestone anniversaries, Subaru just put a special badge on the rear of the vehicle.
somewhere I read they are going to put a special 50th anniversary paint / color scheme on every model.
 

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Agree 2.5i is sluggy look at 2018 "Limited" level tech

We're turning in our torqey, high fuel economy, DSG TDi Sportwagen and bought an Outback with the sluggy 2.5i for the fuel rating - wished Subaru sold their diesel in the USA like they do in Australia. CVTs just are just not "crisp" and single turbos lag - the nature of the tech.

Have read elsewhere that Subaru is considering dropping their 6-cyl engine like others have (Honda Accord V-6, Ford Mustang V-6...) so if you want one, get one while they are available.

Re. your other requirements, adaptive cruise control and other tech items we found the 2018 "Limited" trim level upped the tech interface a bit so may meet your tech requirements. A 2019 Subaru may have even more tech...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
We're turning in our torqey, high fuel economy, DSG TDi Sportwagen and bought an Outback with the sluggy 2.5i for the fuel rating - wished Subaru sold their diesel in the USA like they do in Australia. CVTs just are just not "crisp" and single turbos lag - the nature of the tech.

Have read elsewhere that Subaru is considering dropping their 6-cyl engine like others have (Honda Accord V-6, Ford Mustang V-6...) so if you want one, get one while they are available.

Re. your other requirements, adaptive cruise control and other tech items we found the 2018 "Limited" trim level upped the tech interface a bit so may meet your tech requirements. A 2019 Subaru may have even more tech...
Yeah, I'm sure the 3.6 is on the way out, as Subaru tries to increase the fleet fuel economy average.

Yup, if I want the 3.6 I have to spring for the Limited trim in the Legacy - it's the only trim it's offered with. The good news is, it comes with all the bells and whistles I'm looking for.

Eventually I learned how to drive my 2011 Outback with the CVT. I learned throttle pressure etc on how to keep myself in the power zone if I need it.

I'd be all over a diesel if it was offered in the US. But, you can't buy what doesn't exist.

The only tech/creature comfort I'd be missing if I had to buy a 2018 was "ventilated seats" which now appear in the Touring Ascent trim. But I'll live.
 
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