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IMO, both cars are very boring
...This coming from someone who, if I remember correctly, traded in the OB for a Kia Soul???...lol...:29:
 

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Discussion Starter #42
what made you think the Honda reliability has gone downhill?

the CRVs are still the most reliable compact SUVs, right?

I like the Outback a lot, but my mind is telling me not to expect it to be as reliable as Honda or Toyota.




Good choice. I'm a life-long Honda fan. I've had many Hondas (88, 94, 97 Civics, Integra LS, GSR, Type R, S2000, etc). I sincerely believe that their quality has gone down substantially in the last few years. I did consider the CRV, among other Honda and non-Honda products, but the Outback stood out, both in history of reliability and utility. This is my first Subaru product, and hopefully it'll be just as reliable as my old Hondas.
 

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what made you think the Honda reliability has gone downhill?

the CRVs are still the most reliable compact SUVs, right?

I like the Outback a lot, but my mind is telling me not to expect it to be as reliable as Honda or Toyota.
Honda, generally speaking, most definitely has gone downhill. Like I said, I am a big Honda fan. Owned numerous cars and bikes. I was excited when the new Si's came out a few years ago and was ready to buy. The last gen Si's were hideous and very underpowered. The new Si? Bloated, rattle-city, transmission issues, etc. Maybe it's safer with all the air bags and safety gizmo's, but it definitely turned me away from that Civic. I still drive my old trusty 97 Civic that is rattle-free, starts every time and no transmission issues with 220k miles.

They may still be one of the most reliable cars, but that doesn't mean the reliability hasn't gone downhill. In fact, you can see that a lot of manufacturers have narrowed the gap significantly on Honda (and Toyota). In fact, if I were to buy a subcompact today, I'd probably go with a Fiesta or Sonic. Fit and Civic would be #3/4 on my list.

And lastly---as it's already been mentioned--Hondas have become BOOOORRRRRING! Where are the exciting products like the old NSX? Type R's? S2000's? CRX's? Now they're just focused on "safety" and seemingly, nothing else. Nothing wrong with that, but I sure lost my enthusiasm for their products. So now, I'm onto Subaru. I take delivery next week on my new Outback. Time will tell how it will be, but from my extensive test drives, I feel like I'm in a better car, that's much more fun.
 

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The fact is, most cars now are reliable as your maintenance and care makes them. In the case of safety, its also largely true - your behaviors matter at least as much as what the car does when slammed into something else.

Instead of looking at this from all these relatively modest statistical differences in reliability and safety ratings, try looking at the difference in the way I have been of late. I've been noticing at stoplights and in traffic and in parking lots that many SUVs and trucks of all classes have maybe an inch or two more real clearance at most (if even that), and yet the driver is sitting so high that their butt is about like sitting on my roof. Many of the vehicles I'm comparing to don't have 4WD or AWD even. They sit so high they don't handle well. They have more primitive suspensions and often have poor turning circles as a result. So, in an Outback you get a vehicle that can handle as much or more than many of these SUVs and trucks, but still handles on the road, you can park it, and it doesn't take a ladder to get in and out of.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
thanks.

i am not nearly into cars as you are. we just want something that can move us around...

if i am not paying for the car myself, i'd go with the Outback without any hesitation. but the reality is i have to take care of the bills - maitenance and repairs. this is why i am still looking at the crv.




Honda, generally speaking, most definitely has gone downhill. Like I said, I am a big Honda fan. Owned numerous cars and bikes. I was excited when the new Si's came out a few years ago and was ready to buy. The last gen Si's were hideous and very underpowered. The new Si? Bloated, rattle-city, transmission issues, etc. Maybe it's safer with all the air bags and safety gizmo's, but it definitely turned me away from that Civic. I still drive my old trusty 97 Civic that is rattle-free, starts every time and no transmission issues with 220k miles.

They may still be one of the most reliable cars, but that doesn't mean the reliability hasn't gone downhill. In fact, you can see that a lot of manufacturers have narrowed the gap significantly on Honda (and Toyota). In fact, if I were to buy a subcompact today, I'd probably go with a Fiesta or Sonic. Fit and Civic would be #3/4 on my list.

And lastly---as it's already been mentioned--Hondas have become BOOOORRRRRING! Where are the exciting products like the old NSX? Type R's? S2000's? CRX's? Now they're just focused on "safety" and seemingly, nothing else. Nothing wrong with that, but I sure lost my enthusiasm for their products. So now, I'm onto Subaru. I take delivery next week on my new Outback. Time will tell how it will be, but from my extensive test drives, I feel like I'm in a better car, that's much more fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
i saw this in the parking lot the other day. can't find the ladder though.

The fact is, most cars now are reliable as your maintenance and care makes them. In the case of safety, its also largely true - your behaviors matter at least as much as what the car does when slammed into something else.

Instead of looking at this from all these relatively modest statistical differences in reliability and safety ratings, try looking at the difference in the way I have been of late. I've been noticing at stoplights and in traffic and in parking lots that many SUVs and trucks of all classes have maybe an inch or two more real clearance at most (if even that), and yet the driver is sitting so high that their butt is about like sitting on my roof. Many of the vehicles I'm comparing to don't have 4WD or AWD even. They sit so high they don't handle well. They have more primitive suspensions and often have poor turning circles as a result. So, in an Outback you get a vehicle that can handle as much or more than many of these SUVs and trucks, but still handles on the road, you can park it, and it doesn't take a ladder to get in and out of.
 

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thanks.

i am not nearly into cars as you are. we just want something that can move us around...

if i am not paying for the car myself, i'd go with the Outback without any hesitation. but the reality is i have to take care of the bills - maitenance and repairs. this is why i am still looking at the crv.
Jor - if your worried about the cost of ownership I think that just from the simple aspect of the Honda engine designs and transmission designs the cost of ownership of a Honda has the potential to be far far more.

Here is why - the more complex your systems you put in a car the more they cost to fix or replace if or when they fail. The strait 4 cyclinder engines have long fragile heads on them - any sort of flaw regarding Head Gasket design - or engine machining -- or something as simple as a bad hose or thermostat causing an over heated engine 100% the long fragile head is a replacement item in nearly every case - regardless of the make of the car.

The Subaru engines have silly simple engines that have super small and compact heads which are crazy durable and strong compared to any other engine design outside of the Lycoming Aircraft engines which are also flat engines with compact super crazy strong heads designed to be as reliable and strong as possible.

Subaru historically has also avoided new technology for as long as they can and as a result their cars when new technology does get added are far more reliable than the early adopter brands. Honda for a long time was slow to implement new technology and their cars were some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road. However Honda has played the technology game for many years now and is loosing the battle of new tech vs reliability. Toyota has also suffered this same type of tech vs reliability in many of its cars in recent years.
 

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thanks.

i am not nearly into cars as you are. we just want something that can move us around...

if i am not paying for the car myself, i'd go with the Outback without any hesitation. but the reality is i have to take care of the bills - maitenance and repairs. this is why i am still looking at the crv.
Just to be clear, I didn't buy the Outback with the same mindset when I bought my S2000. Outback is a people-mover, first and foremost. It's neither nimble or powerful (2.5i). Main reason why I'm buying it over the CRV is due to better utility, better kid access (lower), superior 4WD (we get a lot of snow), better ground clearance, and much better looks (subjective, I guess).

I think most of the people here buy cars for themselves and have to pay for repair/maintenance items. If that scares you and/or if you can't foot a $3k bill, if the transmission or whatever goes wrong, you need to rethink your budget and get something cheaper. What I mean is, I can afford to buy a Porsche Panamera, but could I afford to foot maintenance/repair bills on that thing? Probably not. Live within or below your means. Don't buy a car only to be able to barely afford payments, then be screwed if anything went wrong. No car's worth that.
 

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Just to be clear, I didn't buy the Outback with the same mindset when I bought my S2000. Outback is a people-mover, first and foremost. It's neither nimble or powerful (2.5i). Main reason why I'm buying it over the CRV is due to better utility, better kid access (lower), superior 4WD (we get a lot of snow), better ground clearance, and much better looks (subjective, I guess).

I think most of the people here buy cars for themselves and have to pay for repair/maintenance items. If that scares you and/or if you can't foot a $3k bill, if the transmission or whatever goes wrong, you need to rethink your budget and get something cheaper. What I mean is, I can afford to buy a Porsche Panamera, but could I afford to foot maintenance/repair bills on that thing? Probably not. Live within or below your means. Don't buy a car only to be able to barely afford payments, then be screwed if anything went wrong. No car's worth that.
No doubt wife and I have decided we are not buying any more new cars EVER AGAIN. We would rather keep our money and retire earlier or go on a trip with the kids etc. Our 2010 OB will be the last new car we ever purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
No doubt wife and I have decided we are not buying any more new cars EVER AGAIN. We would rather keep our money and retire earlier or go on a trip with the kids etc. Our 2010 OB will be the last new car we ever purchase.

this is our first new car. had three used cars before this. two corollas served well and sold for little loss. one Kia... sold to junk yard, with only 60k miles.

we should be ok with the payment. but still, repairs are extra money you spend on something that is supposed to work.
 

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2018 Outback Limited 2.5i Dark Blue Pearl/Ivory w'Eyesight
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this is our first new car. had three used cars before this. two corollas served well and sold for little loss. one Kia... sold to junk yard, with only 60k miles.

we should be ok with the payment. but still, repairs are extra money you spend on something that is supposed to work.
For the first three years or 36,000 miles, the warranty should cover most of the problem areas (that most do not experience).
I have had my 2011 OBW for a year and three months, (only 11,000 miles) and have had NO issues that needed attention other than a CEL light, which was quickly adjusted by Ben at Maita. Even my wife's 1989 Camry-essentially bulletproof had a few teething problems, (265,000 when swapped for a 2012 Camry). We got another Camry for her mostly because of the dealer service we've received over the 22 years of ownership.

Also, when we got the 1989 Camry, it was the only family sized car that would sit 2 adults and a car seat (albeit smaller than the current sizes) in the rear seat.
 

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For the first three years or 36,000 miles, the warranty should cover most of the problem areas (that most do not experience).
I have had my 2011 OBW for a year and three months, (only 11,000 miles) and have had NO issues that needed attention other than a CEL light, which was quickly adjusted by Ben at Maita. Even my wife's 1989 Camry-essentially bulletproof had a few teething problems, (265,000 when swapped for a 2012 Camry). We got another Camry for her mostly because of the dealer service we've received over the 22 years of ownership.

Also, when we got the 1989 Camry, it was the only family sized car that would sit 2 adults and a car seat (albeit smaller than the current sizes) in the rear seat.
Beyond our warranty and having a switch issue with the OB - so far Subaru has simply decided to try and solve the issue no talk about cost to me yet however given the nature of the issue I would expect subaru to correct it regardless of warranty or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #56

look at 45-50 sec of the video. do we get that here in the US? folding the back seat like that? I only saw it on the CR-V.
 

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20,000.00 Pounds ='s $32,433.91 US dollars today. Not sure about you but a mechanical release near the hatch vs at the rear seat isn't worth a few thousand bucks to me.

My loaded limited was 29K US not counting licensing and tax.
 
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