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Discussion Starter #1
Not be beat a dead horse but the talk on some of the other Subie web sites seem to suggest at some point (100k+) the HG will fail. As a owner of 3 Subies does the 2010-2012 EJ engines in our Outbacks have the ability to go over 100k without HG issues and is the implementation of the FB series engines totally solve this issue?
 

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Not be beat a dead horse but the talk on some of the other Subie web sites seem to suggest at some point (100k+) the HG will fail. As a owner of 3 Subies does the 2010-2012 EJ engines in our Outbacks have the ability to go over 100k without HG issues and is the implementation of the FB series engines totally solve this issue?
2000 through 2003 subaru had a gasket design issue they corrected with updated gaskets however the quality of the replacement job and any damage caused by over heated cars due to owners not checking coolant levels created additional issues.

The open deck design carried through as far as 09 in the non turbo versions was still some what sensitive to abuse and possible external leaks but its not considered common from 03 and later.

The 2010 2.5 shares more with the turbo block vs head designs with a semi closed deck design and gasket which are not known for any typical HG leaks at the higher mileage points.

The early 2.5's back in 98-99 time frame had internal HG failures where the 100K statement held some water regarding the 100K assumption that the HG would probably need doing.

As for cost the HG replacement cost on the subaru engines when done early before damage or over heat is done to the engines is pretty low $1500 or so vs say $5000 in your standard strait 4cylinder where the long fragile heads are often toast and need replacing also. The very strong compact short heads on the Subaru engines rarely ever need much attention paid to them as long as the engine was not over heated.
 

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Not be beat a dead horse but the talk on some of the other Subie web sites seem to suggest at some point (100k+) the HG will fail. As a owner of 3 Subies does the 2010-2012 EJ engines in our Outbacks have the ability to go over 100k without HG issues and is the implementation of the FB series engines totally solve this issue?
It may well be that this issue has been solved...but a reputation is a hard thing to live down. We drove an Outback two weeks ago under Subaru's "$50 gas card" promotion, and were very much impressed by the car.
I did, however, bring up to the salesperson (who we were also positively impressed with) the question of needing an extended warranty because of the head gasket issue. He didn't try to duck it or deny it, basically just stated that the problem did exist, but that Subaru has pretty much got it solved.....and that he didn't think that an extended warranty was justified.
 

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It may well be that this issue has been solved...but a reputation is a hard thing to live down. We drove an Outback two weeks ago under Subaru's "$50 gas card" promotion, and were very much impressed by the car.
I did, however, bring up to the salesperson (who we were also positively impressed with) the question of needing an extended warranty because of the head gasket issue. He didn't try to duck it or deny it, basically just stated that the problem did exist, but that Subaru has pretty much got it solved.....and that he didn't think that an extended warranty was justified.
Rico you will find that subaru unlike many other brands also has a reputation of stepping up and fixing odd issues for customers even if they are no longer covered by a warranty. A major reason many Subaru's are owned by my family now. Subaru is currently sorting out a switch issue with my car which is no longer under warranty - they have yet to say anything to me about charging me for the fix. Same thing for my prior subaru which at 65K had the external HG leak the gasket design was not good causing the leak issue. Subaru HQ called me before I even got home from dropping off the car and said they would handle it and not to worry. I had the car back that following evening and put another 130,000 miles on it with zero issues. As a result I bought not one but two more Subaru's and now I have Family who has also purchased Subaru's given they too have had the same type of experience with Subaru.

Regardless of your product if you take care of your customers and do the proper thing regarding quality problems or parts issues etc - you will grow your business with a reputation that is highly thought of. A brand and reputation is FAR FAR harder to create than building a good car.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Who's our Subaru expert engine tech?- I would like to know if the FB engines eliminate the possibility of HG issues no matter the mileage. Subiesailor- Thanks for you valued information! I have read of the 2005-2009 model years experiencing this issue
 

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Who's our Subaru expert engine tech?- I would like to know if the FB engines eliminate the possibility of HG issues no matter the mileage. Subiesailor- Thanks for you valued information! I have read of the 2005-2009 model years experiencing this issue
2005 - 2009 are getting up there and I bet you the failure rate is no different than what you see in other brands however the cost for the fix is no where near as costly with the subaru.

My neighbor had his 06 camry rebuilt twice for a blown Head gasket Block had to be torn down to the bare block - new heads put back on cost him $7000. The dealer did it and Toyota covered some of the cost. The same failure occurred a year later this time Toyota covered all the costs and he has serious doubts it will last. I had the same experience with my 91 Toyota back in 2000. $8000 job

The Subaru HG job will run you $1500-$2000. Dirt cheap!
My cousin blew up his 1.8T - i think he failed to check the oil given our 1.8T uses alot of oil. HG failed due to hot temp. New head and HG cost him $6000.

You want HG free worry - start riding a bicycle and take the bus.

You want to own the cheapest HG potential vehicle the 4cylinder subaru is probably the cheapest CAR built today regarding HG repairs
 

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Who's our Subaru expert engine tech?- I would like to know if the FB engines eliminate the possibility of HG issues no matter the mileage. Subiesailor- Thanks for you valued information! I have read of the 2005-2009 model years experiencing this issue
Any HG can fail, so don't seek the impossible. However the HG failures you're worried about where caused by coolant issues. The FB routes coolant differently now though. So the HG problems of old are gone, 100%. But no one can promise FB HG material isn't a POS.
 

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The 2010 2.5 shares more with the turbo block vs head designs with a semi closed deck design . . . .
While the open deck design of the 2.5 n/a has been suggested as a factor in the HG failure rate, I haven't found any information that confirms that the engines in the 2010+ OBs are semi-closed decks.

Even more surprising, perhaps, is that the 2.5 FB that's been in the Forester for a couple of years now, is open deck, i.e., there's no support of the upper cylinder walls, as there is in a semi-open block used with the turbo. See attached photo from Subaru "2011 Model Year Forester Introduction New Technology Training Module 920"

Perhaps other aspects of the 2010+ engines were modified to alleviate the HG issue, but it might still be too early to have sufficient evidence. I would want to see virtually no reports of leaks or other failures almost across the board, with, as others have suggested, only the rare few that statistically might fail. Among others back in 2006, I too thought that as of 2005 the problem was solved, but there's far too many 3rd generation 2.5s that have developed external leaks to be within the norm according to the Subaru techs I've spoken with. But I'm remaining hopeful.
 

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While the open deck design of the 2.5 n/a has been suggested as a factor in the HG failure rate, I haven't found any information that confirms that the engines in the 2010+ OBs are semi-closed decks.

Even more surprising, perhaps, is that the 2.5 FB that's been in the Forester for a couple of years now, is open deck, i.e., there's no support of the upper cylinder walls, as there is in a semi-open block used with the turbo. See attached photo from Subaru "2011 Model Year Forester Introduction New Technology Training Module 920"

Perhaps other aspects of the 2010+ engines were modified to alleviate the HG issue, but it might still be too early to have sufficient evidence. I would want to see virtually no reports of leaks or other failures almost across the board, with, as others have suggested, only the rare few that statistically might fail. Among others back in 2006, I too thought that as of 2005 the problem was solved, but there's far too many 3rd generation 2.5s that have developed external leaks to be within the norm according to the Subaru techs I've spoken with. But I'm remaining hopeful.
Compared to what? Nearly every brand regardless of engine type is prone to HG failure.
 

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While the open deck design of the 2.5 n/a has been suggested as a factor in the HG failure rate, I haven't found any information that confirms that the engines in the 2010+ OBs are semi-closed decks.

Even more surprising, perhaps, is that the 2.5 FB that's been in the Forester for a couple of years now, is open deck, i.e., there's no support of the upper cylinder walls, as there is in a semi-open block used with the turbo. See attached photo from Subaru "2011 Model Year Forester Introduction New Technology Training Module 920"

Perhaps other aspects of the 2010+ engines were modified to alleviate the HG issue, but it might still be too early to have sufficient evidence. I would want to see virtually no reports of leaks or other failures almost across the board, with, as others have suggested, only the rare few that statistically might fail. Among others back in 2006, I too thought that as of 2005 the problem was solved, but there's far too many 3rd generation 2.5s that have developed external leaks to be within the norm according to the Subaru techs I've spoken with. But I'm remaining hopeful.
Or what, you'll buy a different brand? Go nuts. Why do you expect forum members to bend over backwards and argue with you. An open deck in an NA car is just fine. There are no reports of structure problems due to this design, only HG failures. Even if the 2010-2012's are open deck they use different head gaskets and thats a fact!

Do me a favor please? Find out how the colant routes in the FB. I'm curious and it'll do you some good.
 

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subiesailor: Indeed, many other makes of engines that have head gaskets can and do have failures. And you, and others, have provided a few examples, which I fully recognize.

foxrider68: I did not post to have anyone "bend over backwards and argue". That was not my intent, and remains so. I was expressing my opinion, and if it's wrong, fine, I accept your admonishment. I'll keep my views to myself.

In regard to the FB cooling system, the New Technology Training Manual contains lots of details about the FB re-routed cooling system among other engine changes, all of which I have read.
 

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subiesailor: Indeed, many other makes of engines that have head gaskets can and do have failures. And you, and others, have provided a few examples, which I fully recognize.

foxrider68: I did not post to have anyone "bend over backwards and argue". That was not my intent, and remains so. I was expressing my opinion, and if it's wrong, fine, I accept your admonishment. I'll keep my views to myself.

In regard to the FB cooling system, the New Technology Training Manual contains lots of details about the FB re-routed cooling system among other engine changes, all of which I have read.
Your stating that the only proof you'll take is the documentation of cars getting into the upper mileage ranges. So are you waiting for a 2010 in 2018? You've read the FB materials, are you not satisfied with the design changes? Someone who has done the research you have needs to be able to sort through the data of what was the cause of the failures and the corrective actions taken and determine if they're good enough. Most people who rely on time alone would not need to take the research steps you have. The data is there you should be able to draw a conclusion now without sitting on the fence for years to come. If you want to discuss it fine but I don't really understand what you intended to achieve from this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The main objective when I started this thread was if one traded up to a 13 OB from a 10-12 would she or he be getting away with any potential HG issues with there higher mileage cars. We all know some the the other advantages of the 13 car, suspension etc... but the EJ TO FB conversion had me wondering about the HG issues that have seemed to haunt this manufacture for awhile. To be honest and this is my opinion I like the tried and true lastest revised EJ to the FB.
 

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To the best of my knowledge, there have not been any HG issues with Subie's 6-cylinder engines, so by opening up your wallet and opting for the far-more-satisfying 3.6R, you are likely to wind up with better reliability as well as much better acceleration and a lower interior noise level.

And, for those who are not fans of the CVT, you would get a "conventional" 5-speed automatic trans if you opt for the 3.6R.

:29:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To the best of my knowledge, there have not been any HG issues with Subie's 6-cylinder engines, so by opening up your wallet and opting for the far-more-satisfying 3.6R, you are likely to wind up with better reliability as well as much better acceleration and a lower interior noise level.

And, for those who are not fans of the CVT, you would get a "conventional" 5-speed automatic trans if you opt for the 3.6R.

:29:
I would be willing to bet that next gen OB(2015) will have a H6/CVT option. No more 5speed auto
 

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I would be willing to bet that next gen OB(2015) will have a H6/CVT option. No more 5speed auto
That is very possible, maybe even very likely.
However, if the OP is interested in buying an OB now or in the near future, he/she needs to deal with what exists now.

:29:
 

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To the best of my knowledge, there have not been any HG issues with Subie's 6-cylinder engines, so by opening up your wallet and opting for the far-more-satisfying 3.6R, you are likely to wind up with better reliability as well as much better acceleration and a lower interior noise level.

And, for those who are not fans of the CVT, you would get a "conventional" 5-speed automatic trans if you opt for the 3.6R.

:29:
The H6's have used a multi layer gasket all along just like the Turbos and the 10-12 OB's.
 
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